Aam3
Aam4 is the fox 3 i think
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IRIS-T, you mean. IRST is very different.
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IRIS-T coming for a ground based SAM is an entirely different situation though than it being equipped to an aircraft. I do suspect that the SAM will be used for tuning/testing of however they plan to model “IIR” (initial rumours suggest it will just have 2x forms of IRCCM rather than being modeled as true IIR). But it could still be a number of months before we see them on any aircraft, let alone fighters
But just be warned. Aim-9X is one of the weaker Gen 5 IRs and just hope they give you the block II and not the Block I to fight IRIS-T, ASRAAM, etc, because you would truly stand no chance.
I did indeed get that wrong. Woops.
Block 2 is on par
Its not though.
IRIS-T and MICA IR can pull harder and tighter off the rails. with IRIS-T being by far the best short range IR missile with a range just shorter than it. MICA IR has a lot more range.
ASRAAM is equal in naeuvering capabilities but is faster off the rails and has 3-6x its range depending on aspect.
I dont know a huge amount about the Python-5 or R-74 so just going by the Modern IR thread but they look better than the Aim-9X in a few ways. Only thing Aim-9X might be equal to is the R-74
Sub 5km it goes (best to worse)
- IRIS-T (due to 80G pull)
- MICA IR (near instant start to maneuvering with 50G+)
- ASRAAM (50G + very fast)
- Python 5
- R-74
- Aim-9X
past about 5-10km it changes to (best to worse)
- ASRAAM (Fastest time to target)
- MICA IR (Excellent range)
- Python 5 (Seems to be fast and has decent range)
- IRIS-T
- R-74
- Aim-9X
Its what happens when you just upgrade an Aim-9M instead of making a new missile. There is a limit to what can be done
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Python 5 is very clasified but idf stated it capble of bvr so it has long range+full sphare capability
Which is the same as ASRAAM and mica IR both which have a 50+ km range potential (under the right conditions)
From a standstill both platform are capable of about 20km of range (VL), so I expect 50km to be pretty standard at speed and some altitude for both platforms. 15-20km NEZ as well as a standard. The upper limit of the MICA IR is estimated at around 60km.
Also, I am interested in how much range is the ASRAAM believed to have at a maximum. Do you guys have any information on that ?
Id be curious to see the documentation on some of this. Everything I have seen says the IRIS-T maxes out at around 60Gs and most of the Block II information is classified. The US was originally going to go with the ASRAAM but opted to stay with with the Aim-9X and just upgrade it. Outside looking in, this just feels like EU chest beating. It’s not to say those missiles aren’t incredible performers but if most of the 9X stuff is classified, its hard to take any claim of “I’m the better missile” seriously.
I also do not understand how every time the 9X is brought up or suggested, its the same handful of people saying “you can’t add that because its far too OP. But go ahead and these three other missiles that we are claiming to be even more OP than the 9X”. That’s weird. Especially when the US is sitting with one of the lowest pulling IR missiles in the game as of currently. The Magic II pulls more, the Pythom pulls more, the R-73, etc. Im sure the balancing factor here isn’t pull but probably something like the strength of its IRCCM or such. But again…its weird. “Dont add their OP missile but definitely add ours.”
Official MDBA states 25+ but sources for CAMM which is a ground launched ASRAAM that is heavier but with a different nose cone had to be tested with a weaker motor because the missiles were traveling 60km in a ballistic arc.
Also official docs state a range as being 3x AIM-9X when fired in rear aspect and 6x AIM-9X when fired in front aspect
50-60km is a rough estimate for an air launched ASRAAM for when fired up high and fast, but youd rarely fire much past 30-40km Id guess.
I don’t have all the sources on hand or they are not mine to share. But you can ask Flame or Devil in the British weapon thread for sources as they have quite a few gathered in prep
Though might be a mute point if Gaijin limit them all to 20km lock ranges or something
This was because they had something like 30k Aim-9Ms in storage that they didn’t want to waste. As well as some geo-politics.
Because it would be stupid to add aim-9X Vs Aim-9M, it would be like giving the US AMRAAM and leaving everyone else with Aim-7
As is 6/9 of the other nations. Like the Typhoon. So this is not a US only issue
The only way Aim-9X is fair is to add everyone’s “IIR” missiles. But despite that fact Aim-9X won’t be the saving grace the US mains think it will be. I find many Americans have an attitude of US made = best. When that is quite often not the case as the US often goes for quantity over absolute maximum quality
Mmmh. Interesting. If it was heavier, it could increase the range, but with a weaker motor, idk. Weaker in thrust, but what about Delta V in general ?
It’s pretty hard to make good estimated when the device has a different weight, aerodynamics and motor.
That would bring it at around or very slightly below the MICA then. Lighter (so less range) compensated for a longer (but less energetic) burn time so less aerodynamic drag
That’d be the biggest issue compared to a MICA that does feature datalink. I fear that in game the missile might not be limited kinematically but simply limited by the seeker
You have to add them with a substantial amont of guess work as again, the 9X is mostly still classified. And even then, everything else (if those stats are to be believed) will need to come in a nerfed state.
Whilst it can’t be used for a straight comparison, if it can reach 60km with a static ground launch, then a Mach 1 launch from 30k ft can be expected to be roughly similar even with the differences in weight and aerodynamics
The estimation is less max range than a Mica but better time to target
Yeah, a lot of unknowns, especially with how or even if IIR is modeled. They could be flares by a single BOL past 10km
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And to be fair the python is not even close to being better than the AIM9M. It does like IRCCM, which is a major issue as it’s very easy to flair, and automatic MAWs are now passively defending against them in several high/top tier jets as of now.
Overall, I prefer the dynamic of the Magic/r73 because I got used to them in short range engagements, but we also can’t deny the strength of the AIM9M IRCCM at long ranges. They are still somewhat in the same category, and as you said, the Aim 9X would be in another dimension altogether. Just like the ASRAAM, MICA IR, and IRIS-T are all much better than the aim 9X all around. The US players are going to have to get used to their IR missiles being worse than the competition… because that’s accurate to the real life
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Aim-9M would be so much more useful if they had their IRL lock ranges. Currently they are often forced to be used at short range when they would be best at longer ranges
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Interesting, I would have said that the MICA IR, being faster (even with a shorter burn time) would hit faster. Maybe only until 20-30km then ?
Who knows. I don’t think their are any real world data available to the public on IIR performances against modern countermeasures (BOL or smart flares). I guess the devs would somewhat balance the game with having flares being more effective, but that would bring yet another advantage to datalink missiles (MICA IR, later AIM9X…). I guess they are already doing some internal testing as of now, and maybe they could come this year (June or december) but that remains to be seen
I have very quickly played with the AIM9M on my French F16A, before stopping because I just don’t like the plane being 13.0 without radar missiles whatsoever, but I don’t remember having issues with the AIM9M. The red diamond is still a massive advantage for the receiving party, and I’m use to sub 2km launches, so I might have been too cautious. However I would see the advantage of longer lock range for sim and GRB.
Although to be fair most if not all modern seekers lack incredibly in range. While not useful, the Magic 2 lock range should be over 15km rear aspect and not much lower than 8-10km in front aspect I believe, for example
ASRAAM was designed with basically pure speed in mind.
There was a “leak” in the R&R that it will be 2x IRCCM instead of IIR
It’s ASB where I find the lock ranges lacking. When the target is not just in range, but in the LSZ and rapidly approaching min range and I still can’t fire is very frustrating
Isn’t it advertise as a Mach 3+ missile tho ? When the MICA is Mach 4+
Mmmh, interesting. To be seen. I could see them coming as soon as this June then if that’s the case. Aside from a few needed aircraft’s (like the F2), I think this would be a way to make this update more interesting (like Fox 3 addition last June)
Edit : also @Morvran would you happen to have any information on the seeker of the ASRAAM. I have been collecting some documents on different IIR sensors, and it turns out you can find some pretty interesting stuff when looking at the manufacturer itself, even if it’s not linked to the armement itself. I have not seen much on the ASRAAM tho since I don’t know much about it.
Even if the IIR is not correctly modeled in game (for now), that’s very good food for thoughts