So thanks to @Peasant_wb I now have access to the legitimate 6 pounder APDS curve.
Churchill IV is my all time favourite tank, so a big fat +1 to any suggestion for it. Just hope Gaijin wouldn’t give it a ridiculous BR because of the APDS.
I’ve been getting into the British tree a bit more, more Churchills would be great to see, especially with better guns.
I believe you are incorrect here.
Both of the Churchill Mk IIIs fire their AP round at 891 m/s (roughly 2923 ft/s), APC round at 883 m/s (roughly 2897 ft/s) and the APCBC round at 847 m/s (roughly 2779 ft/s).
These muzzle velocities are 1 m/s (about 3 ft/s) below the muzzle velocity I’ve read when fired from the 6 pounder L/50, except for the APCBC round which actually surpasses the muzzle velocity I’ve read by a decent bit (2725 ft/s or 830 m/s, which is even what one of your sources states).
With all that said, stuff like the Cromwell I use the smaller, L/43 cannon, and have noticeably lower MVs for their AP rounds.
Yup +1
So my wording sucks here.
The visual model is of the short 6 pounder. The penetration values and muzzle velocities are of the long 6 pounder. The churchill III in game (the north africa/dieppe flavor) should have muzzle velocities reduced to match the short 6 pounder. The curret muzzle velocities should be used for the Churchill IV (except for the apcbc which just needs to be fixed)
Oh I understand now.
Yes, I do feel like this new Churchill would be interesting. It would also likely being the current Churchill Mk IIIs to a lower BR due to them having worse weaponry.
This, I reported the issue years ago. Still hasn’t been fixed. To throw in my hat and describe the issue as simply as possible:
Which means Gaijin have either given the vehicle the wrong stats or wrong gun.
Though in saying that, Mk. III’s also got the longer 6-Pdr Mk. V as well. So this doesn’t necessarily have to be a Mk. IV.
In my humble opinion: this is a bad idea. The British Churchill MK.III is already overtiered and should go down to 3.7, not go up (which it will if it gets access to APDS).
The heavy tanks should be positioned in the tech tree in such a way as to emphasize their unique characteristic (the armor). By moving it up BR the player now has less opportunities to avail of its unique feature. The tank becomes more generic, and if I wanted to play with a genetic WW2 tank, I would’ve chosen a Sherman (no offence :).
In truth this is the case where adding something actually reduces the overall whole, not enhances it. I understand your enthusiasm after finding the penetration figures for 6pdr APDS shell and wishing to try it in the game, but, again, IMHO this a bad idea.
The suggestion is not asking the Churchill Mk.III to get APDS. It’s actually saying that the Churchill Mk.III has the wrong cannon (as visually it uses the shorter 6 pounder cannon) and should have lower velocities and penetration, while the Churchill Mk.IV could be added with this improved 6 pounder and potentially APDS rounds.
Consequently if anything the Mk.III would go down in BR.
I see, my bad. :D
if I recall correctly all Churchill III’s that got the long 6 pounder also got 30mm applique on the turret fronts, as well as the 20mm side plates and 20mm turret side armor. That tank would functionally be the same as what I propose.
What FlipAllTheTables said, with the additional statement that the MK IV that I am proposing would have the 20mm extra side armor, as well as additional track armor to improve it over the Churchill III in game. Turret roof is also thick enough to keep out absurd russian bias shells
Now that I did not know, and make the IV significantly more interesting.
what, the 20mm sides, or the tracks, or the thick roof?
Yeah, I had skimmed over that part of the suggestion.
Not all of them, there’s a few distinct eras of Churchill III. It gets quite complicated.
Do you have a good way of identifying mk3 and mk5 6pdr? All I know is that apart from being marginally longer the mk5 use a bigger counterweight, which also made me wonder if the cromwell mk1 is modelled with the correct gun stats
These are early and mid/reworked Churchill’s with 6-Pdr Mk. III
Here’s mid and late Churchill’s with 6-Pdr Mk. V
Here’s Cromwell with both versions of 6-Pdr
There’s about 6 different types of 6-Pdr Mk. V counter weights.
Plus for some reason the 6 pounder APDS has been in the files since like February of this year
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/comments/11dhl2w/datamine_dev_server_223144_224020_part_5/
