it’s an old platform, similar to AIM-54, with low length-diameter ratio, to get enough space for electronic device, causing bigger drag and less propellant ratio.
Russian are bringing back KS-172 long range missile, which would be a true long range killer
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Did the study compare all of these missiles?
Also I thought pl-16 was vaporware
Not vaporware but unknow shape/performance.
many close source suggests there is a missile developed specially for 5th gen planes, even better than folded fin PL-15, could be something like AIM-260 with no middle fins.
considering that PL-15 is almost 10 years old it’s not so strange.
the name was got from a professor’s self introduction, original text is “participate in development of XX-16 air to air missile”.
another rumor is about the “PL-17”'s successor being developing, but this is truly unknow and just a rumor.
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The analysis references two photos: one showing a maximum launch distance of approximately 180 km at an altitude of around 10,000 meters and a Mach number of 0.7X; the other indicating a maximum launch distance of about 200 km at 10,840 meters with a Mach number of 0.9X (TAS 1050 kph).
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This paper presents a measurement and evaluation of the AIM-260A. Previous studies indicated that under the same conditions, the PL-15 has a maximum tail-aspect launch range of approximately 120 km (with an end speed of 900 m/s), slightly exceeding the 111 km range of the AIM-260A discussed here. The range of the PL-12AE can be roughly estimated as about 40% lower than that of the PL-15, which aligns closely with the AIM-120D’s range as suggested in this paper. However, considering the 4–7% drag reduction and 28% total impulse increase from the AIM-120D to the AIM-260A, along with the use of a dual-pulse motor that boosts range by 45%, the PL-12AE—which has a total impulse similar to the PL-15—might actually achieve a slightly longer range than the AIM-120D. The rest of the conclusions are consistent with existing findings.
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120d is just a 120c with clipped wings to fit in stealth weapons bay. Pl15, pl17, pl21, r37, aim260, aim174, meteor all get extra range from larger motors. Something the aim120 doesn’t have. An improved aim120 will never compete
120c is clipped as well
Also pl15 smaller than pl12
I’ll reiterate here as I did the AMRAAM thread, they mistakenly believe it has a cold gas thruster system like PAC-3 and assume it has the same propellant as AIM-120D-3 and are making calculations based on only 15-20kg weight gain and 30% more of the weight being fuel.
So, they have estimated the weight too high and the propellant impulse too low. This makes their estimates on the AIM-260 quite conservative.
It appears you may not have read the full text carefully, or there might have been some translation discrepancies in certain sentences. The paper only states that the AIM-260A is slightly heavier than the AIM-120D by 2 kg and has a 30% increase in total impulse, rather than what you described.
It has been a long day for me but you are right, the AIM-120D-3 is only around 160kg, but the rest of what I mentioned is still true. The AIM-260 does not use a cold gas thruster system, the weight is somewhat over-estimated due to this assumption of theirs I think.
They assume the AIM-260 has ~30% more motor than the AIM-120D-3, but they do not take into account advances in propellant specific impulse as well - so the total impulse gain will be more than just the additional motor mass.
The weight estimation did not account for the cold gas thruster system. The change in weight is due to the compression of the lower-density avionics bay and the expansion of the higher-density motor section. Additionally, the 30% total impulse adjustment actually includes a certain margin.
Feel free to share how you’ve determined these things based on the article, else I will assume they must have made the weight calculation under the assumption of a cold gas thruster system and the increase in impulse is 1:1 with the increase in area for propellant - not accounting for improved specific impulse.
So… The increase in weight is solely due to the baseless assumptions for density using incorrect weight metrics for all three missiles and reflects poor judgement of the JATM…
And I’ll reiterate that they posed the idea that it uses a cold gas thruster system which just isn’t true. This article is still very conservative of JATM performance.
Incorrect. Both are clipped wing.
Incorrect. The AIM-120 has gone through at least 2 larger/improved motors through its lifetime.
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AIM-120A/B/C-3 - original motor
AIM-120C-5 through C-8 - +5" motor
AIM-120D ???
AIM-120D-3 - further enlarged motor?
There are at least 3, maybe 4 motor iterations that involve major improvement outside of minor changes to propellant over blocks and batches.
Then of course there were the experimental motors that didn’t see production like the late 90s dual pulse motor, or ramjet powered AMRAAM models. And of course the JATM’s multiple pulsed motor as well. Plenty of options here.
Should be same. In weapon files said about “Improved kinematics” but with 2WDL and GNSS you really can Improve kinematics with loft and other things,
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Cant wait for aim120d3 with a 150kms of range(subsonic at 40) and 35gs of pull(10gs for the first and last 20 seconds of flight), can’t forget the pl15 with 200kms of range(has the drag of a Scania with a full trailer)
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