Analysis of MBT-2000 / VT-4A1 protection in latest data mine
It seems MBT-2000 will benefit the most from the change and may need BR increse to 11.0+
For VT-4A1, the new KE protection is estimated to be 540-580 base armor + 180 ERA according to the guy.
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After this, it’s seems that all were really missing is the Reload buff and Spall liners
Thank you by the way for bringing this to our attention!
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Also they should add the missing top ERA plates but that may come much later as modelling is required.
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Yeah, I expect that later, and tbh I don’t really mind as much, as the ERA coverage was very minimal, and wouldn’t have much effect on survivability
not only the top but also the sides’ the side’s ERA can improve its survival ability significantly
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The side ERA on the turret is already implemented, unless your talking about the proposed kit thats meant to add a bunch of sideskirt ERA to the tank. That was a separate report, however given that it was never implemented IRL, I don’t expect it to come to the game
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https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/vM3Y9bSPTycF
“Will be fixed in 2.33.0.23+”
Might be a good hint that this is when they will update the VT-4, just no ETA when it’s actually coming but I assume SoooonTM
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Comparing 2.33.0.19…2.33.0.25 · gszabi99/War-Thunder-Datamine · GitHub
Seems top ERA is fixed (changed to FY2) but the side ERA has not received any changes. May need to check again after the patch is released
Edit: actually I am not so sure now because there are two sets of values for top ERA:
“kineticProtectionEquivalent”: 50.0,
“cumulativeProtectionEquivalent”: 350.0,
“genericEffectiveThicknessMax”: 120.0,
“cumulativeEffectiveThicknessMax”: 450.0,
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Im terrible at understanding the raw datamines, but do I see spall liners for the VT-4? Or is that something else?(edit: I think I was just misreading)
Also I guess we’ll just have to wait and see whenever this mini patch is ready, hopefully they will be able to squeeze Spall liner and reload buffs into it as well
I really hope they also don’t keep the 7.1 second reload with the justification of “balance” as this tank is already up against some fierce competition, and could use all the help It can get. Plus unlike other changes, I imagine the reload is rather simple to do
Has the hull armour and APFSDS been looked into here? I’ve seen some mentions of it but nothing that looks like a final ‘yes this needs to change’ (though I might just be tired :P). That aside, I’m not too happy with how the VT-4 is in game right now so I’d like to try and help, even though this isn’t normally my thing to do.
I looked at the sources on the Wikipedia page for the VT-4, which led me to an article with a transcript of an interview with one of the tank’s designers (though obviously I can’t verify its authenticity since I know nothing about the site), but I wanted to bring it to you guys’ attention. It has mentions of ~700mm of armour on the hull front and an APFSDS that can pierce 700mm of RHA (and another experimental one that can pierce 1000mm), though naturally I can’t be sure if those claims are true or just what’s being said.
Here’s that article: VT4 Tank Chief Designer: Our tank gun can penetrate 1 meter thick steel armor (guancha.cn)
(taken directly from wikipedia)
Like I said, I don’t normally deal with this stuff, so apologies if this isn’t the most useful contribution. (edit: I reckon an article like this wouldn’t be enough to convince Gaijin to make changes anyway, but maybe it’s helpful?)
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The armor should see a huge buff in next update. For APFSDS, I am afraid the community has tried its best to submit various evidence but at the moment I don’t see any hope.
It seems that armor buffs are coming for the VT-4 and also for Chinese ERA in general, and I made a bug report in the dev server about the underperforming armor which was acknowledged: Community Bug Reporting System
From what Gultrama has already posted, it seems the current estimates are more or less in line with my bug report
for vehicles that have spall liners implemented, there are lines with “spall_liner” in it, but at the moment I don’t see it in any chinese vehicles.
Well hopefully they come sooner than later, although I’m not sure how much we’re gonna get for the VT-4. I might have to look again, but the report I saw for it only showed spall liner in the turret
Good to hear that we’re at least getting something for the armour. I hope we can get the 1500hp engine as well, especially with how the current 1300hp engine is just insufficient to use the vehicle - even with armour buffs, I doubt the VT-4A1 will have sufficient performance, especially if they choose to up the weight. There’s seemingly no reason why they can’t give it the better engine, since it’s more than likely the Chinese would probably outfit their own versions of this vehicle (which is clearly what we have in game) with the best engines they can, right?
It definitely feels like it could fit that light MBT niche that vehicles like the AMX40 fill in other tech trees nicely, especially if Gaijin was willing. A smaller, faster, higher-penning (but less protected) vehicle that would work well in flanks, brawls, and sniping isn’t something the Chinese exactly have in-game at the moment (if you don’t count the ZTZ99s themselves).
I think it’s still gonna be a competitive MBT, but it definitely won’t be absolutely dominate like some others. The APS will make it a nice late game pick tho.
Also I would hold my breath on the engine at all. The problem is that there is simply no proof that it was ever fitted, and thus Gajjin probably won’t add it. The 1500 HP engine claim seems to be more of a suggestion for future variants of the vehicle, rather than an actual tested version.
It’s the same issue with the purposed side ERA kit that would cover the sideskirts. It has yet to be physically shown, and has thus never left the paper, and so probably will not be implemented unless gajjin is feeling very generous.
For ground vehicles, Gaijin seems very reluctant to add something that does not exist in a real vehicle, even though all the components are there and appear in manufacturer brochure or designer interview.
We can only hope Norinco can show off the real VT-4B in next expo with all high end options installed.
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Well, there’s no evidence it’s been fitted to the VT-4A1, but it’s clearly been fitted to other VT-4s and there’s plenty of mentions of that being the engine fitted to it all over the place. Even the Wikipedia article states very clearly that 1500hp is an option. So given that it can be fitted to the VT-4, and the VT-4A1 is a modification of the VT-4 that simply adds an active protection system to the turret, there should be no real reason why the engine wouldn’t be able to be mounted. It also wouldn’t be the first time something like this has been done - I point to the Challenger 2s & mere existence of the Japanese F-16 for this (though in the case of the former, it’s for the worse).
The VT-4A1 right now isn’t at all up to standard, and it probably never will be in its current state unless Gaijin manages to make it an equal to the ZTZ99A & WZ1001 with the coming changes. This probably won’t happen, so I can see a few ways the vehicle could be made to stand out without bending the rules:
- The improved round mentioned beforehand could be introduced, which would allow the vehicle to function more effectively as a sniper (and thus stand out more from the WZ1001, which currently looks like an overall better option).
- The 1500hp engine (which can and has clearly been mounted in other VT-4s) can be introduced, allowing for the vehicle to perform better in the way most people (myself included) currently use it, which is as a flanking sniping vehicle.
- The armour can be brought to be on par with the ZTZ99s, which can make it work as a good alternative to them while having the unique dynamic of being smaller and having an APS.
It may bend the rules a little bit, and I doubt Gaijin will act upon it, but this vehicle has been a real let-down so far, and the way people treat it in game only consolidates that. Most of my kills with it are from people underestimating it & rushing it, or from the stars aligning enough for me to sneak into a good sniping spot without dying on the way (that is if there even is one - god forbid you get an urban map like Sweden). There is absolutely no reason why your performance in any top-tier vehicle should rely solely on chance.
VT-4 seems to of gotten some of its buffs in the game right now! looks like vertical, horizontal speeds buffed, and armor as well, including ERA
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Hasn’t shown up for me - still the same old.