Chengdu J-10S (Shuangzuo) (2009) - Conversion for next generation

Do you want to see J-10S in War Thunder?
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  • Yes, but… (state in comments)
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Meet the J-10S - The Chinese operational conversion trainer/multirole interceptor made for aspiring J-10 pilots!
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As much of the information has been covered by the passed-to-developers post, this post will focus down on the specifics of J-10S (and subsequently, J-10A) during its early service. And, specifically, we will list out the specs as seen in year 2009. This posts involves a lot of digging among historical internet archives, so I really appreciate any support from anyone of you here, for this specific suggestion.

Before you read further. J-10A/S, despite being the earliest variants to come in Chinese service, are still being fielded by the PLAAF. There had been minor upgrades in capability to carry more missiles, advanced targeting pods and guided munitions. There’s potential for even more small upgrades to come in the future (Including PL-10 full integration), so these aircrafts can still gain the performance to stand to this day.

Introduction

In 2005, China introduced its newest airframe into service - The J-10A jet fighter. In order to accommodate previous pilots to get familiarised with J-10A’s general performance, China ordered a specialised, two-seat variant of the jet aircraft, known as the J-10S. It is manned by two pilots, which includes one as an instructor. This jet allows China to train newer pilots in different kinds of performance and weapons systems J-10 has to offer, and introduces Chinese pilots to the instruments of the all-new glass cockpit.

In 2009, as mainline J-10A are often shown flying with PL-8 and PL-12 AAMs, new images surfaced in the internet regarding the J-10 carrying PL-11 missiles during its flight training for China’s 60th anniversary airshow.
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It is likely that these aircraft were equipped with these older missiles due to as China need to dispose of these older missiles in their inventory, as the more advanced PL-12 missiles becomes readily available for their jets (including J-10S).

Suggestion
I am suggesting this aircraft (J-10S) to be a specialised, inferior version of the future J-10A in a lower battle rating in the tech tree, specifically without the PL-12 armament. This allows Chinese players to have more room to choose between different variants of J-10 without compromising the real J-10A’s full capacities.

As it is shown with the Jaguar E from previous events, J-10S with nerfed armaments can be a perfect candidate for a Chinese Rank VIII event jet. It also sports the opportunity to wear the iconic Chinese aerobatics camouflage which serves well as an event camouflage reward. It is a good opportunity to introduce PLAAF to fourth-generation fighters by having a specialised event jet to appear first, like how the German F-4F and MiG-23 is introduced.


Design and History

Yang Wei (杨伟), then executive of CAC, was in charge of as the main engineer in designing this aircraft. It was his craft to convert the iconic J-10 into a twin-seater.

In 1998, at the first flight of J-10, Yang Wei was tasked with checking the integrity of J-10’s fly-by-wire system. He ensured the safety of the prototype, and gave the test pilot a go to try the jet out.

3 years later, in 2001. Yang Wei was tasked with designing the twin-seat variant of the J-10. Compared to the single seater, the twin seater still had a number of complex issues that needed to be sorted out before being put to production. At the same time, the timeframe for completing J-10S’s design was short - He had to sort out the issues all within two years. As he experimented more and more with the design, in nine months he had successfully completed three different design stages for the J-10S’s development.

In 2003, the first J-10S (known to the west as “J-10B”) was flown for the first time. By 2005, the development of J-10S was completed, and the twin-seater was put into production. Soon after, J-10S went into the PLAAF as a successful conversion trainer for Chinese pilots, as more and more pilots gets familiar with an indigenous Chinese jet design and its electronics. Pilots trained in J-10S eventually gets placed to the single seat J-10A varaint, which is produced in a higher number along with its subsequent variants. Pilots flying the J-10S can also be converted to J-11B, J-15 and J-16 jets due to the nature fly by wire systems, or continue their training in J-11BS and J-15S trainer variants of said aircraft.

Meanwhile, the legendary engineer for Chengdu Aircraft Corporation was highly regarded by the Chinese as a successful engineer in the Chinese aviation industry. Not only he was the reason why J-10 was so successful, he had also accomplished another great feat - Succeeding in designing and engineering two aircrafts at the same time.

Back to 2001, Yang Wei not only did received missions for a twin-seat J-10 - He had also been tasked with another great project on his hand. At 2003, the same year the first J-10S prototype was flown, his another creation had also taken off to the skies. The jet is entirely different from the J-10, and its name was called

FC-1 Xiaolong.

Which we all now know as,

JF-17 Thunder.


Specifications

Crew: 2 (Pilot and co-pilot/weapons officer)
Length: 16.43m (without pitot tube) / 16.7m (J-10C data)
Wingspan: 9.75m
Height: 5.43m
Wing area: 33.1m2 (Estimate) / 37m2 (J-10C data)
Empty weight: 8,840kg
Takeoff weight (norminal): 12,400kg
Maximum takeoff weight: 19,277kg
Fuel: 3900kg (Internal) [Around 5,000L]
Powerplant: 1x Salyut AL-31FN (Mil power: 74kN; Full afterburner: 123kN)
Max speed: Mach 2.2 / 1350km/h IAS (J-10C data)

Avionics
Type 1473 (KLJ-10) PD radar
K/PZS01H targeting pod (As shown in Beijing Air and Space Museum)
Hongguang-I IRST pod (Prototype; Never went past that stage)
KZ600 Jamming Pod
KZ900 ELINT Pod
K/JDC01A targeting pod (After 2016)


Armaments

Unlike the other suggestion, I had cross referenced the images between what’s real and fake. A lot of the images online about J-10 appears to be artwork, CG renders or photoshopped, which fails to authenticate as credible sources. This are the best images I can use to represent a J-10S under full load, but remember several things.

  1. Some images are taken after 2009
  2. Some images are taken with a subsequent variants (J-10B/C)
  3. There’s still an odd chance it might be photoshops, but official media coverage made it credible enough to get through
  4. When the pictures were taken on grounded planes, netizens had questioned whether the jet can actually take off (It should, by the way)
  5. I don’t intend to include PL-12 in this suggestion (read above) and you can instead refer to the J-10A suggestion for it

I will also use the image from the passed suggestion for showing hardpoints. Thanks, CaID.


A

  • 1x PL-8 or
  • 1x PL-9C air to air missile

B

  • 1x PL-11 air to air missile or
  • 1x 90-1 rocket pod or
  • 2x 250kg bombs or
  • 1x 500kg bomb (No image proof)

C

  • 1x 90-1 rocket pod or
  • 1x 500kg LT-2(LS-500J) laser guided bomb (requires pod) or
  • 1x 500kg LS-6 GPS/BeiDou guided bomb or
  • 1x 500kg bomb or
  • 1x Fuel Tank or
  • 2x 250kg bombs (No image proof)

D

  • 1x Targeting/Rangefinding pod or
  • 1x 250kg bomb

E

  • 1x 250kg bomb

F

  • 2x 250kg bombs or
  • 1x Fuel Tank (Medium) or
  • 1x 500kg bomb (No image proof) or
  • 1x 500kg guided bomb (LT-2/LS-6) (No image proof)

Internal

  • 1x 23mm Type 23-3 cannon

Sources

English
Chinese J-10 'benefited from the Lavi project'
PLA Guided Bombs
Chengdu J-10
http://www.military-today.com/aircraft/j10.htm
Chengdu (AVIC) J-10 (Vigorous Dragon) Multirole 4th Generation Fighter Aircraft
Chengdu J-10 "Vigorous Dragon" fighter | Secret Projects Forum
Aviation Photo Search | Airliners.net

Chinese
歼-10双座机、枭龙飞机总设计师杨伟小故事_CCTV.com_中国中央电视台
空军双座型歼10战机全副武装亮相航博新馆_高清图集_新浪网
http://slide.mil.news.sina.com.cn/slide_8_193_73656.html
http://mil.news.sina.com.cn/p/2007-11-30/0908474256.html
https://news.ifeng.com/mil/jsdg/200907/0728_6242_1272204_4.shtml
http://military.china.com.cn/node_7162593.htm
歼-10战斗机_军事_中国网_权威防务资讯

If link is dead, try to find it in web archive thanks


J-10SY Aerobatic variant

J-10SY is a simpler variant of J-10S, with its 23mm gun removed for airshows.

For true, peaceful pilot who just want to do airshows, I suggest Gaijin to treat all the 23-3 cannons in J-10 as a gunpod by default. Players will gain the option to de-equip it in order to gain the aerodynamic beauty of an unarmed J-10.

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8 Likes

Thank! I’d love to see it added to the Chinese Air Force in a future major update!

3 Likes

Thanks for your support!

There is a problem that the hardpoint C is able to carry pl11 , the J10a has this ability.

The J10 has 11 hardpoints and 6 of them are able to carry air to air missiles
1df05128f9ec0a3724c2e6a0c3df9d3.png.1150bb47146027f8134eb5ddec4b314d (1)

3 Likes

b015a336afc3793177e9a81badc4b74542a91160

For the first image, you can see the missile in the inner pylon is a PL-12, not PL-11. I had seen a lot of PL-12 loadouts but PL-11 loadouts apparently are limited to only 2 missiles each side. Also I am sure this is a display loadout, not for combat.

For the second image, due to the blurry nature I can’t even confirm if it’s PL-12 or PL-11. Apparently you got this from a tieba user. Can you post the discussion link so I can check that post out?

Also note that there are a lot of photoshops in 2007-2010.

【图片】回复:歼10在安东星的未来表现和武备【战争雷霆吧】_百度贴吧 (baidu.com)
Here is the dicussion.


High quality version

Judging from the missile fins and the placement of the fins relative to the pylon, I believe this J-10 is running the same loadout as above. 2x PL-8, 2x PL-11 and 2x PL-12. I believe the two pictures are pictured in the same location. (Same J-10 on display)

This photo seems to be scanned from 现代兵器增刊. It would be great if you know someone who had that magazine on hand.

we want to have it

+1

There won’t be anything before long as gaijin obviously stated the Fox3 carrier, so to say to most advanced plane a nation could get atm, will be J8F so hope all you want last patches of this year will introduce a fox 3 platform for Germany, Sweden and Great Britain. Soo i’m not gonna lie i hate china and consider it shouldn’t be in game but for balance i hope for your J10 but sorry to say that i’m affraid that china won’t see another TT this year. Plus as J8F is a 21st century vehicle there is very few chances china gets another top tier as current limitation to planes in terms of year of introduction seems to be year 2000.

This J-10 variant is specifically stated as a fox 1 and 2 carrier.

Still a 2000+ jet and considering gaijin didn’t even bother introducing F15A until now while it could only carry 4 Fox 2 and 4 Fox 1 and launched in 1970+, so is perfectly game ready. I hardly see a plane with 6 hardpoints able to carry IRCCM missiles and Fox 1 making it to the game currently as a tech tree vehicle, and yes i know there is Mig 29 SMT which is approx the same in loadouts, but considering IRCCM missiles are making their way into the game add of PL8B + PL12 to J8F(which already has 6 hardpoints) later. The addition of this plane seems highly irrelevant considering flight performancers and loadouts(except for ground) are equivalent between J8 and J10. I don’t even think it could make it as an event vehicle before late 2024 because the only rank 8 event plane we have for now is a Tornado with 2 A2A missiles. I would rather consider the addition of J10C in 2024 and when they are done with 4th to 4.5 gen aircrafts they’ll go back to add fillers like F15A, J10A/S and other early versions of jets they’d introduce as Fox 3 carriers.

J10 has better aerodynamics, while J8 is only a gen 3 fighter that emphasizes high altitude performance, and its flight performance is not as good as J10.

1 Like

Well you may have a point but still the addition of this version is irrelevant considering how close we are to the Fox3 update and the considering the actual way of processing of gaijin, you may want to support addition of J10C instead.

+1 gimme

1 Like

Here I am 3 months after this suggestion was made, I don’t see this variant coming any time soon at this time. With the previous addition of J8F, I would say that Gaijin is almost ready to launch the Fox 3 missiles. With the vehicle addition rate we have seen this year, I would say that we can see most TTs with at least one Fox 3 carrier available as soon as mid 2024, and Fox 3s would be available in game by the end of 2024. If this is the case, then J10A would be a sensible option to add to the researchable tech tree first. And I don’t see a rank 8 air superiority fighter been added as an event vehicle before F15 and Su27 made their debut. Great suggestion after all.

1 Like

Hope to see the J-10 family +1

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+1 100% should have been given to the chinese instead of the j8f imo.

1 Like