CAS spam is killing ground forces

Again not.

  1. The spotting system has nothing to do with BF-109 messing up at first place. With a fly at very low alltitude a fighter won’t be able to spot You, before You will be far away enough.

  2. When it comes to air to air fight, both sides have chance to win against each other (as their both can evade/attack) while on the ground a tank player no matter how good he is if an air player doesn’t make a stupid mistake, he will die (no matter his skill).

You are trying to compare a situation of a tank vs air with air vs air which really can’t be compared, as in a tank no matter how good You are, You have to rely on an air player making a stupid mistake. When You are in an air unit fighting other air unit, Your skill playes a major role in how the fight will end.

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Do you always get trolled by little kids, no matter what you say he always finds some crappy vehicle that no one plays for his Iamthemaincharacter arguments.

So no one uses open-tops?

Both of these statements are simply false.
It is very easy to spot aircraft against almost any background, so running is not an option against an enemy that knows you are there and is looking for you.

And in order for the IL-2 to get into a position to engage the Bf-109, the 109 must make a mistake. All advantages are with the 109. It is faster, it can maintain energy better, it is more maneuverable and it can just delete the IL-2 whenever it wants.

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It is not if You are flying low, especially when You are the one having the advantage of already seeing the enemy air unit as he spawns in mid-air, while he has to search for You from all this distance.

Weren’t You the one showing me a screanshoots of ground battle from an aircraft and saying that I wouldn’t be able to tell where SPAAs are?

If an IL-2 player is able to use his plane properly, he will be able to defeat 109 or just avoid his shoots to reach the airfield before dying.

AA from airfield tend to shoot long before the said airfield. Not to mention that at some maps, an airfrield is really close to the battlefield for tanks.

Not to mention that You will win the engagment by simply being better than BF-109 player (he doesn’t have to make a stupid mistake if he is just worse than You overall) while when You are in a tank You rely on air user to make a mistake in order to be able to do something to him.

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Yes, it is and I am not even using ‘competitive graphics settings’.

Again…this only works if the 109 messes up. The IL-2 is a brick. Any maneuver it does can easily be followed by a 109. And any evasive maneuver just gives the 109 more time, before the IL-2 comes close to AAA coverage, as it gets slowed down.

And so is the enemy airspawn.

No, no amount of skill can save you from an enemy that makes no mistake while being in a machine that holds every advantage over yours. You are literally writing that he needs to be worse than you. This means that you even say that he needs to make mistakes…

An IL-2 can defend itself against a well flown Bf-109 just as much as it could against an F-16.
That is: not at all. It can only get its nose at the enemy, if he makes a mistake, it can only hit him with the gunner if he makes a mistake and it can only evade him if he makes a mistake.

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Gonna play my Na-To TD and see who spawns on an early CAS to kill me in a bit. Probably test 10 to 20 games and see how rare it is cuz I cant recall a moment where a plane strafed me that early.

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made me laugh a little, but no.

In most settings if il-2 would fly low, an aircraft would have hard time spotting him, not to mention that You won’t always have clear weather.

IL-2 can avoid BF-109 shoots and fly to the airport before being shoot down.

I would love to run a test but it would be not reliable as I would just ‘know’ that You would be spawning instead of looking for it by watching the airspawn.

Depends highly on maps.

Being worse than You =/= making a mistake.

We would need to describe first what being better means and what making a mistake means because I see that this things are getting mixed up.

Again, this doesn’t apply to the situation that was described here and the discussion is not about air vs air balance. As described before:

You won’t tell me that a tank vs air has the same chance as attacker vs fighter ;)

You can only avoid the 109’s attacks, if he lets you avoid them. He is more maneuverable.
When engaging an IL-2 in a 109 I am free to dictate every aspect of the fight.

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As I have said previously:

"We would need to describe first what being better means and what making a mistake means because I see that this things are getting mixed up.

Again, this doesn’t apply to the situation that was described here and the discussion is not about air vs air balance."

and:

“You won’t tell me that a tank vs air has the same chance as attacker vs fighter ;)”

If one is better in the air in air vs air fight, he will win.

If one is better in a tank in tank vs air fight, he won’t win unless air user doesn’t crash (which can still result in tank player dying) or can’t use his weaponary.

Then really? IL-2 in GRB? There is so much better options than this. I would say that by doing that You have already put Yourself in losing position.

Screenshot 2024-02-12 181523
Getting better with SPAA duty that even the So-Ki is becoming easier for me to use. I struggled a lot with this SPAA back then, now feels better. Maybe soon I’ll be able to use the M19A1s and M42s better.

EDIT: After 16 games with Na-To, my Na-To died to CAS around 4 times mid to late game after getting a good amount of kills which every enemy I killed knew where I was or scouted. But none super early CAS where I was driving to get in position like how the Nashorn was bullied early. Good to say that its rare to happen even though it does happen. Every other death was by tanks. One of them the M22 kept shooting at me a bunch of times to my last 2 crew members till a plane stole his kill lol

Spoiler

Still performed and won games through my efforts. GG


Screenshot 2024-02-12 231114

Found one for ya.
vv Spoiler Below vv is this enough to convince one to use every tool available to deal with CAS? Type 99 I wanted to play, was still me dealing with CAS and dealing with tanks at the same time. Type 75 SPH, M109 SPHs and other SPHs with proxy fuse can do this.

Spoiler


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How does bf109 kill IL2 if IL2 lawn darts?

Your efforts show how much dedication it takes to be affective with SPAA. Nice job

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Ah yes, you brought up the only way for the IL-2 to avoid being killed by the 109. ^^

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Here’s some ideas that are better still and not stacked against CAS purely because of salt toward being bombed.

  1. Remove the kill cam, or move its footage to after the match ends.

Revenge bombing is the source of much of the CAS hate. Until its at least made less prevalent, most people can’t (or rather, won’t) calm down and look at things rationally.

  1. Forced airfield spawn for all planes, only ones which physically can’t take off spawn at low altitude behind the runway.

Also reduces frequency of revenge bombing by adding more time for the tank to move.

  1. Remove the zone cap messages which function as “please bomb me” notifications to the enemy team.

Cessation of ticket bleed and colored icons starting to blink as they change color is enough, isn’t it?

  1. Remove the close-range helicopter pad, merge the farther helicopter pad with the plane runway complex so a helicopter can land anywhere on the plane runway to rearm.

Helicopters have little to no defense against being vulched on spawn by enemy helicopters or even planes. Their AAA can’t be made effective again without causing massive headaches elsewhere like it did before. No heli with long range missiles should be able to hover over their base and hit tanks nearly 7km away in total impunity.

  1. Give everyone default planes in their lineups like Combined Naval already does. Everyone would have a BR-appropriate Fighter, CAS (with preset unoptimized loadout), and possibly also SPAAG/SAM (with preset ammo loadout, also unoptimized).

Half of the CAS problem is the player opinion that they’re defenseless. Part of solving that should be ensuring nobody can enter into a match any longer being truly defenseless, be it through inexperience or willful ignorance. Give people the tools, and most will eventually shut up and learn to use them.

  1. Use Simulator’s SP system in RB

RB has a terrible snowballing problem, CAS amplifies that snowball rate. Sim instead gives everyone 1000SP at match start and no ability to earn more. Spawn what you want, when you’re out, you’re out. Exact values of certain weapon loadouts or vehicle classes would still need adjusting, but the bottom line is that the best CAS would be so costly that you’d probably only have enough to use one decent tank if you die in said CAS. This also means that neither team is vulnerable to “cap & fly” nonsense either, since both can go spawn fighters early game just as much as they can CAS. A fighter will pretty much always swat down CAS. Again, give people the means to help themselves, and most of them will eventually go learn to use those means.

  1. Giving non-radar SPAA a short range lead marker out to 1.5km max with an aced crew.

Average joes still don’t know how to use AA correctly and never will it seems. This shows them where and more importantly when to shoot.

  1. Undoing SAM controllability nerfs, fixing Stingers & Starstreaks

We need ground-to-air counters that actually work, not just the Strela and Pantsir.

  1. Undoing the lower-ranking SPAAG anti-tank belt composition nerfs, removing tiny shell count limits on higher tier SPAAG AP(FS)DS rounds, and adding missing anti-tank rounds to applicable SPAAG - APCR for the Ostwind, Ostwind II, and Coelian, APDS for the R3, APCR for the Chinese ZSU-57/2, APDS for the M42 Dusters, AMX-13 DCA, Lvkv 42, York, and Swedish York.

Most average players cower in their own spawn with AA, being utterly useless to their team against CAS and setting themselves up to be strafed dead. Restoring former tank-killing prowess among AA will encourage people to actually move outside of their own spawns, because even with the above SP changes an AA is still far more likely to run into a tank than a plane. Low-ranking truck AA do not need such new rounds even if they probably could technically use them.

  1. Make current caps function as spawns for the team controlling them, and current spawns now also double as caps, removing spawn redzoning.

The maps are constrained by the time spent driving back to the front after first death. Average people are clearly too impatient, and that’s not going to change. Obviously this idea has some challenges to consider, such as the same guy spawning on top of a cap 5 times to defend the cap with a wall of his own bodies preventing its capture (versions of this are seen in Naval EC which this idea is based on), but now people can spawn much closer to the front after first death. This reduces spawn camping, allows actual encirclement of enemy teams by opening current rear spawn points to being captured, and allows much larger maps without adding meaningless “alt tab into YouTube on CC” time.

  1. Surround those new fused objectives with some AI defenses. Bunkers, MG nests, possibly AI Tanks or TDs. They would bleed ticket chunks when killed like player kills do, and only after they’re all cleared out can a zone begin being captured.

These would act as new and important targets for CAS to focus on to help their team. Every piece of ordinance spent on an NPC target is one less on a player tank who would uncontrollably scream bloody murder on the forums. CAS in real life had many more important things to do than directly hit tanks, but ingame it has nothing else to do.

  1. Make the artillery units tanks use for support actual map targets worth tickets. These would ideally use player tank models and not be carelessly easy kills, possibly guarded by SPAA (which could be AI or even an alternative place for player SPAA to spawn).

This gives CAS another important target to go after that can’t scream on the forums, enables the game to add machines which would make no sense for players to be able to control (various artillery incapable of direct fire), enables giving different nations unique artillery strikes to call in which vary in number of shells depending on caliber, and limits artillery spam potential so 10 players can’t all call it on the same spot like can happen now. Artillery killed more tanks in reality than CAS did, and it should be much more deadly. I would be in favor of removing the red warning message for incoming arty as well, but instead make the noise of it firing more audible.

Now, the main things that needlessly anger people are dealt with, CAS is no longer an inherently unbalanced powerup, the counters work, and both CAS and tanks have new objectives to do to get diehard CAS fanatics and TO fanatics off each others’ throats.

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But still a kill 👍

Another idea double the repair cost for suicide bombing so the most annoying use of cas is removed.

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How do we know pilot messed up by going too fast, couldnt pull up on time and crashed yet still got the kill. Double repairs there? 🤔

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Yes

So what about when he just crashes with no kill? Didnt even attempt the bomb run, just crashed to a tree or something.

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