How do you think the draft change will affect scharnhorst if it comes? (Report was put in basically it’s accurate in the hangar but suddenly decides to drop like 2m in naval battles).
What does that even mean?
1 Like
There probably nerf for Scharn could arrive.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/1oUfrcJ9n5st
1 Like
It’s hard to tell for now. It’s certainly going to reduce its invincibility but by how much, I don’t know. Fix to Scharnhorst’s draft will likely be deployed upon the next major so we will see.
3 Likes
To have 630+mm pen
1 Like
Interesting.
I have one question:)
Have you calculated the penetration capability of Richelieu?
lol.
Dear lord Royal Navy why did you refuse to make super heavy shells (relative to the competition) post WW1
source used is this one :
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNFR_15-45_m1935.php
For APC Modèle 1936 on a 10km shot, it gives this :
TLDR, it seems to fall short; although not by much, and the fall angle might be enough to pen anyway
Also, did Vanguard while we are at it, with a 9.1km shot and the 879kg shell using supercharge :
same source : 15-inch (38.1 cm) Mark I - NavWeaps
I don’t know how the supercharge works, but falling from 630mm @5km to 530mm @10 km seems rough, it’s possible i missed something here
And bismarck herself, 10km :
Then again it seems low, and the shell seems excessively light, maybe i missed something ?
still the same good old navweaps :
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNGER_15-52_skc34.php
All in all, the Japs and the US will have the best shells : highest pen and nice explosive mass, while the rest has to sacrifice something due to the use of a lower caliber :
The italians sacrified the explosive mass, but get a very nice pen, and can be up there with the big calibers in that regard
The germans and the brits seems to have sacrified the pen, but kept a very good explosive mass
The french shell fares not too bad, having still a good explosive mass while being halfway “in the middle” in terms of pen (which i can’t really explain tbh, just the shell weight maybe ?)
3 Likes
now adays scran isnt even op anymore its guns do little damage and dont pen to much armor and all it has is good survivability
survivability is all it has
Thank you :)
1 Like
Also do note that navweap’s range table of 15’’ supercharge is of ‘average’ gun, not ‘new’ gun, which is about 34 m/s faster
1 Like
Is there any discussion on swapping the demarre formula with another for naval weapons?
1 Like
1 Like
14" for those interested
1 Like
Reading this made my day better, let’s hope Gaijin gets it right
1 Like
It’s wrong unrealistic formula.
more realistic (even compare between gun)
http://www.navweaps.com/index_nathan/Penetration_Germany.php
I mean you can take the problem with whatever formula you want, the shell is quite lighter compared to other 380mm ones, and the muzzle velocity isn’t stellar as well, with the HE filler being quite large, so it will have less pen
That and the unusual turret disposition makes the 8.3 BR they gave it not so surprising i guess
Gaijin doesn’t seem to understand that any armor can be penetrated with enough speed — whether it’s a ballistic vest or ship armor. I thought that was common knowledge. For example, in the USN empirical formula, velocity is raised to the power of 1.1, while mass is only raised to 0.55.
Compare Okun’s calculations to what Gaijin uses — just look at the penetration ratios of the shells they’ve modeled. It’s clear as day.
Figures at 0 meters and 14,600 meters (almost 15,000), all versus British Cemented Armor, for example — and effective pen (shell not broken):
- Yamato: 31.7 and 19.3
- Iowa: 32.8 and 21
- Bismarck: 31.1 and 18.5
- Richelieu: 32.9 and 18.8
- Roma: 31.9 and 20.4
Gaijin’s values (first one for 1000 m):
- Yamato: 870 and 630
- Iowa: 857 and 583
- Bismarck: 708 and 439
- Richelieu: 738 and 491
- Roma: 771 and 513
You get it, right?
In the end, it’s clear the Germans are nerfed — as usual — in this ‘game’.
Iowa and Yamato obviously have overestimated penetration values. Or, more likely, the 380 mm guns are heavily underrated.
Iowa’s penetration matches what’s in Battleships: United States Battleships 1935–1992, calculated using the USN empirical formula. But using the same formula, Bismarck’s penetration is actually significantly higher.
Double standards, perhaps?
That formula gives more weight to velocity than to shell mass.
Yet in Gaijin’s model, Richelieu — with the same caliber, 10% more shell mass, and 2.5% less velocity — has higher penetration.
According to Okun, close-range penetrations are nearly identical across these calibers, but heavier shells lose velocity more slowly — which makes sense.
So either the penetration values for the 406–460 mm guns are inflated (except for Rodney’s 406 mm for some reason — although SS also show inflated values in the same pattern), or the 380 mm guns are massively underrated — most notably Bismarck’s.
And all these ships will be matched against each other anyway — as we all know, BR 8.7 vs. 8.3 makes no real difference
Now let’s talk about the Sovetsky Soyuz.
Its shell, with the same caliber and penetration on par with Iowa’s, somehow has twice the explosive filler. And it’s also significantly faster. How is that even possible??
And its semi-AP shell is somehow more powerful than comparable HE shells — while still having penetration close to that of 380 mm AP shells. What kind of magic is this?
2 Likes
I get it, but how do you know which one is more correct than the other ?
The pen difference between those two might as well be ignored (30mm difference at 0m ant 45mm at 10000m, since Richielieu’s shell keeps its energy better). This seems reasonable, 10% mass difference is after all not a small difference.
It’s possible because Gaijin decided to give it a gun that would be unusable after 80 shot, and the barrel would progressively lose accuracy in the mean time.
The Sovetsky Soyuz is complete fantasy, and just like the KH38, Gaijin decided to be very generous with the russians, for no good reason really. I won’t disagree with you on that point : Sovetsky’s firepower is more of a dream thing than anything else.
Note for example that they didn’t give the 830m/s on Richelieu’s gun because it eventually caused the gun to malfunction and explode IRL, and i’m fine with it, but somehow did not apply the same reasoning to the Sovetsky, because why not