Unlucky.
Good Questions. I’ve flown all of these vehicles quite a lot, so this should be a definitive answer for you.
This is a tough choice. The F-86A-5 is more nimble, but the F-86F-25 has a better engine. This results in the F-25 model having around 20-30% better acceleration and climb, and around a 15km/h higher top speed. The F-25 model also has better sustained turnrates marginally, and retains energy much better with S-hold.
The F-86A-5, while having a worse sustained turnrate, does turn more tightly. This is due to the wing-slats, as well as a lighter wing loading. The wing slats effectively cut into the air, increasing both lift and drag. They make the A-5 feel more snappy and nimble, especially at high speed, but they make it more difficult for it to retain energy. This is compounded with the fact that the A-5 model has the worse engine.
Overall, the F-25 is the much better FM, however the A-5 has advantages, and is, crucially, 8.0 instead of 8.3. The 0.3 BR dfference is, in my opinion, almost worth the decrease in power. These two are both very competitive compared to aircraft at their own BR, but I would have to say the F-25 slightly edges it out if I had to choose one. It is also in essence easier to fly, since the A-5s rather poor low-speed acceleration means you really need to be very disciplined about holding speed, and you need to be comfortable with using neg-g to hold speed.
The F-2 has exactly the same FM, but the cannons are quite the upgrade. In my opinion, the F-25 is actually the stronger aircraft relative to its BR. The F-2 at 8.7 is still a competitive FM, but the 8.3-8.7 jump actually means you face 9.3s far more often, which is quite rough. However, I think the F-2 is actually better when it comes to being effective and getting kills. The ability to kill enemies in a single pass very much suits the flightmodel, and if you aren’t pressure by good players, the F-2 sabre absolutely frags out. In this sense, it IS worth the BR step. The F-2 is also very satisfying to fly and is a favourite of a lot of the better players. So, the F-25 is the better aircraft (debatably), but the F-2 is still a must-fly.
The F-80C is actually very strong at the moment, since the WEP is bugged at the moment and does not run out! Previously the F-80C only got this godly WEP for 2 minutes, which greatly limited it, and placed it at 7.7. Now, still at 7.7 with unlimited WEP, the F-80C is essentially an 8.0 plane at 7.7. It is incredibly strong. The main strength is the sustained manoeuvrability and energy retention, which is absolutely stellar. You can drain nearly everything of energy (not including the obvious demons - MiG-15bis, Long-wing Meteors etc. etc.). While the top speed is still not amazing, it is certainly strong for 7.7. The F-80C shines in nearly every aspect. It’s good at everything. However - I would recommend playing the Sabre instead, since In my opinion it will teach you valuable lessons about ARB, and force you to be good at holding your speed and adapting to your environment, whilst also being great.
I love both these, You might not like the jets as much now, but I urge you to give early jets quite a bit of time to get used to. If you don’t enjoy it immediately, stick at it for a while and see if things improve as you gain more skill with them.
Hope this info helped. I can go into more detail in the comparisons if you like and answer more questions for you. But this is enough for one comment.
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Thanks for the detailed input. I am close to meeting my own arbitrary requirements (staying over 7m SL after crew training) for taking out the F-25. It’ll be a little bit before I move on to the F-2, but hopefully I will be well familiar with the FM by then… which should helpful as I see more capable opponents. I will definitely fly the Shooting Star in due time as well.
At the moment, I am still working HARD to fly effectively in up tiers. I got very lucky yesterday with the MM, so a few good matches, but not much opportunity to fly against tougher planes.
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Uptiers are rough at all jet BRs. The sabre is relatively well equipped to survive in uptiers since it is pretty good at maintaining speed while manoeuvring and going defensive. Most vehicles will feel the pressure of uptiers more harshly than a sabre will.
That’s not to say that it isn’t a struggle, it’s just that uptiers are always much more of a struggle in jets since the battle ratings are more compressed (mostly) than props. The flip side is that you get to be borderline unstoppable in downtiers. The Me 262s have no business facing you in the same way you have no business facing MiG-19s.
You just have to get very good at having your head on a swivel and hold onto your speed like it’s your firstborn child.
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It’s been a pretty awful experience so far. Easily my worst in War Thunder. Definitely a lot of frustration, confusion… not really any fun or success, unfortunately.
It feels like a never ending series of jets I either cannot catch or which I cannot turn with… and often both. On the one hand, I am still basically stock… on the other hand, I am staying stock because I am not getting any RP.
ETA: I just checked my performance in the F-25… and wish I hadn’t. The worst of anything I’ve flown, at any BR, from any nation, without exception, by a wide margin. Oof.
Remember that speed is life, just stay fast and zip from fight to fight and don’t commit unless you are sure you can end it quickly and there are no other enemies around. You have great energy retention to help you with that, if you tap negative elevator in turns a bit you won’t lose any speed at all.
To catch faster planes you have to be off to their side or semi-front, look at which direction they are going (like an su7 heading back to base) and point your nose at the point where you think you two will intersect if going at full speed, if you can dive on them you usually get a shot opportunity even against supersonics. Like if your position is like this and you see an su7 moving south, he is going to his base, don’t go directly at him but cut off his flight path.
I don’t generally have a problem with pursuit angles. Surviving long enough to chase damaged/low fuel or ammo enemies trying to RTB? That’s another matter entirely.
In props I can side climb and try to build a positional advantage that allows me options. The F-25 feels a lot like a U.S. prop in that it doesn’t climb well, doesn’t turn well, and needs to be kept fast. However, speed is not an advantage the Sabre can rely on and altitude matters much less for jets. I don’t know what a winnable/favorable fight looks like.
I wish I could be more specific about what I need help with… I’m basically just free SL/RP at this point and it sucks =/. I know people love the Sabre and it’s not the plane, at least.
You are very much mistaken, speed is the lifeblood for a sabre. It’s it’s most essential quality, being able to retain your energy and staying fast while pulling high G turns.
Here are some tips: Accelerate to about 890kph TAS and then put yourself in a 10° climb, but don’t expect to be above enemies, level out at a comfortable altitude like around ~3k and start building up your speed. While you are fast you are an incredibly nimble and hard to attack fighter and can do slashing attacks against anything that flies slower. If you get into a dogfight and need to get out just dive away so you can gain speed again.
Reversals also are more easy at high speed thanks to your incredible roll and pull at high speed, most other planes can’t match you and will either overshoot or slow down too much trying to get a hit on you.
Here’s an example of reversing a more maneuverable and faster plane by abusing your roll rate and decent pull:
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@Geamr, I cannot relate what you’re describing here to what I experience in game…
My experience is that the Sabre doesn’t respond well to control input at high speed. Above 800-850 kph I can stand on the elevator (the “s” key in this case)… and the Sabre just doesn’t respond. I’d love to execute a slashing style attack, something akin to what I might do in a P-51, but I can barely get the Sabre to turn, let alone turn hard enough to pull lead.
I don’t know what I’m doing wrong here, honestly.
I don’t know what you’re doing but at those speeds the F-25 pulls at least 10-12G.
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I think that perhaps jets just aren’t for me. The F-86A-5 that inspired this post was a sometimes frustrating, but ultimately hopeful experience. The F-86F-25 has been all together different. It was suggested that they need “quite a bit of time” - and I’m not sure I’m willing to give them that.
I appreciate the time that you, @Zodicab, and @BlitzKriegerツ put into assisting me - and I just wanted to take a moment and thank you all for that. I hope that this thread helps other new(er) players as they begin their jet journey.
Dont let the mid AF sabre put you off. Its over rated to fuck
Nearly Every jet you play against is faster than you.
Its like the zero of jets. If no- one turns with you, all you have is 3rd party kills.
The 8.0 is playable but the rest are just a bad time.
Well… honestly, I’m just not interested in any of the other “starter” jets in the 7.0-8.7 range.
The F2H-2 was such a forgettable experience that I literally did exactly that… completely forgot I even played it, let alone spaded it.
The P-80A-5, while cool historically, was a similarly “meh” experience for me. I did at least remember that I played it… and when I revisited it, I remembered why I stopped playing it after I spaded it.
I haven’t played the F3D-1 at all - worse performance across the board compared to the P-80 for cannons isn’t a trade I’m interested in.
I haven’t played the F-84 because if I want something that is only good at going fast and dies if you try to turn I have a whole TT of U.S. props to choose from ;-). It’s also ugly AF.
I was thinking of maybe Germany to try the Henkel at 6.0 and the MiG-15bis at 8.3… but after my U.S. experience, I’m not really in any hurry.
Really early jets are fun but 8.3- 9.3 is by far the worst experience in WT .
The mig15 bis at 8.3 is a good example, most games you are facing mig 19s which does the same as mig 15 but just much better.
Other Enemies are usually much faster, have missiles and/ or flares.
Id just skip and play 9.7 and above/ props. Its where te fun is.
Also skip 11.0 - easily the least balanced BR after 8.3
Don’t listen to tokestar. The sabre is far from the zero of jets. Many jets outturn you and you are always one of the quickest at the BR.
You just have to learn to deal with the fact that your energy generation (i.e. climb and accel) is strong at high speed and poor at lower speeds.
If you aren’t used to using neg-g while you move around the map to limit your AoA and hold speed, then you’re going to have a hard time.
Feel free to send some clips if you want and I can help.
@Mahrs Geamr is entirely correct here, you should listen to him.
I’ve seen him around the statshark discord and I do know that he’s very knowledgeable when it comes to this BR
The mans already realised the stuggle. Him going mig 15 is the same experience.
The sabre fights hunters, f106 etc.
Unless 8.0- as 8.3 and above NEVER gets downtiered.
Yes theres slower better turners around the BR but you dont see them…
This BR range is the worst, doesnt matter the jet as subsonic vs supersonic means you only kill if mistakes are made
Zero vibes.
I’ve seen him on the WRTRI discord… always helpful, seems like a good dude.
If I play another match in jets (and remember to record it), I’ll post it here.
I’m currently in research of the F2H-2, anyone got tips for it?