I’d be ok with that
Mirage 50FC, Mirage 50C, Pantera, AND Mirage 50CN (premium) would be neat for the Isr tree (in like a Chilean sub nation/tree).
I also highly agree on Britain getting/keeping the Atlas Cheetah
6 Likes
Atlas Cheetah series should not and will not go to the Israeli nor French tech tree for the same reason the Mi-24 Super Hind is not in the Russian tech tree, South Africa exists as a pre-established sub tree in Great Britain and Gaijin seems to be intent on sticking to their sub tree placements, SA vehicles go to SA/GB, Hungarian vehicles go to Italy/HG, Taiwanese vehicles to go CN/TW.
Nations should also not get foreign modifications they did not produce, test or develop unless it’s going to a sub tree.
7 Likes
The Cheetah C carried R-Darters, the JAS 39C couldn’t and will never in SAAF service.
The SAAF JAS 39C carried R-Darters in tests and trials and are intended to operate with the missile in the future, potentially alongside the A-Darter missiles.
2 Likes
You’re clearly not South African, Just because the lying Government says something doesn’t mean it’s true, quite the opposite actually (with the exception of the DA)
The SAAF’s JAS 39Cs will never get the R-Darter
Bit harsh of a comment although I somewhat agree, r darter has been retired (at least by the SAAF) and it’s probably never coming back. But I still think Gripen should keep the r-darter as it was tested to carry it and would have it if not for budgetary issues.
1 Like
I much agree aswell, if it wasn’t for the Gripen Britain would have been almost completely screwed at top-tier.
If I gave the full history and truth then my account would have been banned immediately, that is how bad it is. In SA when you vote (post 2005 to present) you vote; working country (DA) or different ways of fu*cked up counrty, at least with the DA get certain department of government they can start to fix it
1 Like
+1 If for Israel, who was the mastermind behind this plane
No they weren’t, it’s like saying the Soviets are the masterminds of the J20 which was heavily inspired my a failed stealth plane but more copied from the American’s technology that was stolen
1 Like
Its the Atlas Cheetah not the IAI Cheetah that tells you who did the bulk of the design and of the manufacturing of the plane. Just because it used information gained from the ISR/ZA tech collaboration doesn’t make it an Israeli addition
6 Likes
Exactly lol it was designed when ZA was still under sanctions. Made by Atlas and they later became Denel systems I believe. Interesting story though on how Israel “smuggled” all the schematics into south Africa for them to use.
1 Like
I say bulk instead of complete /fully for this reason. I believe some Israeli parts were used either to avoid sanctions (a bit like Russia today) or because of the plain fact that there aerospace industry was more experieced and reduced the demand of production that had to be done domestically. Likewise there may have been some Israeli participation in the design through either attaches or lent engineers.
There was not lol my grandfather Abraham Mayer worked for Atlas in the 70s and helped assemble the first Cheetah jets in South Africa. They only received technical hints about the IAI Lavi that they interpreted themselves to better design the Cheetah jet. All components where made in ZA assembled in ZA, but when they where getting up to the flight tests engineers from Israel came over to help finalize. Also to note the ZA air force already owned and operated a fleet of Mirage III.
3 Likes
Thanks for the info.
I thought they would need some Western technology. Not even Israeli chips?
No sir you do realize that they where completely able to developed there own attach helicopter that could rival the Apache along with a set of indigenous ATGMs. They made weapons systems that could take out the latest soviet tech in Angola. ZA was a beautiful place with many great minds back in the day. Not so much today though lol.
Developed some of the best SAMs in the '90s, almost had one of the best MBTs in the world, one of the first APS in a Western counrty, one of the best IFV/ICVs ever and created a class of troop transport vehicle and I will give credit though to the Israelis who helped us develop our first locally made ATGM
I’m by no means doubting ZA’s technical ability but its rare that things are 100% domestic. Like for Missiles (ATGMs and SAMs) it wouldn’t be uncommon for chips sets to be outsourced but all other systems domestic (software, propulsion, seeker etc) that would still make it 95+% domestic. I use chips as an example as they are incredibly difficuilt to make and I would bet that despite being a major player US equipment would have a significant amount of Taiwanese chips. Those Chips may still be US designed though.
Yes chips maybe but I don’t know the specifics of the electrical components. Taiwan is the world leader in chips if I remember correctly.
For the Cactus it is South African with some French, who were more piggy backing.
Most of the missiles we developed were locally designed, exceptions to this are; ZT3A1, Cactus, V3A, V3S, R 73E (I can’t remember the SAAF service designation), V3E and maybe V3B.
This is only a fifth of the missiles we designed and used or almost used (there are many systems in development during the 80s going into the 90s that got cancelled e.g. the SAHVM (not the ground launched one but an AA missile that eventually got to Europe and became the Meteor missile), the ZA HVM (SAM), etc.
My point is the sourcing of individual components (seeker head, chip set etc) that make up the system (insert any missile thats ever been made) then the primary developer