Its functionally a C-5 performance wise in functionally all situations. The 120A and B are still better across the board or equal, especially in close in shots as the AAM-4 has a .61 second PID lockout post the .3 second launch lockout that the 120s lack, in effect, it takes the AAM-4 over a full second to reach it’s full G loading while the 120s have only a .6 second launch lockout. Other missiles have lower lockouts like the R-77s having a .3 second lockout or the MICA having a .15 second lockout. The Derby is in the same boat as the AAM-4 and is in part why the derby is painful to use as close range.
It also sports a larger diameter (203mm vs 177.8mm), higher mass (222kg vs 147.87 and 161.5 kg) and higher drag (1.55 vs 1.425, 1.405) compared to the A/B and C 120s.
The C-5 has no reason to exist and is a direct downgrade to the A/B 120, the AAM-4’s performance is in line with the C-5, thus, it is one of the worst modern ARHes on the docket.
And no, the R-77 is not the worst modern ARH in game, that is premium tier cope.
Derby go brrrrr, thing is really sad, more or less on par with the R-77 at long range, minus the fact that it lofts like its going out of style, but it’s close range performance is just not there, meanwhile both 77s are second only to MICAs for close range use.
By all accounts stat wise it should too, it should be superior to the likes of the 120s by it’s pull values alone, the AAM-4 is in the same exact boat, yet, neither sport the short range performance that would be expected. The C-5 / C-7 are also in the same boat, it should just be a slightly heavier A/B 120 stat wise, yet it’s close range performance is anemic to say the least.
There is a lot of weirdness at play with ARH AAMs, especially in regards to their short range autopilot guidance and it’s effective use of the missile’s performance.
It used to be a LOT higher, it’s still higher then some, maybe all, but it’s not an unviable amount like it was back then (also given it has some extremely high drag stats, it’s probably to its benefit to lift like that)
Hardly, its performance is so low to begin with. It doesn’t have a lot of range to work with and its drag is quite excessive. If anything, the extra loft angle makes it more viable with such drag coefficients. Regardless of what they set the loft angle to, it’s not going to be very viable, it will always have less range then any ARH AAM you put it up against
Yeah no, the only missiles that are worse than it at range among the modern ARHes, is the MICA which just does not loft, and the base R-77 which is very close to the Derby performance wise at long range.
Its still massive garbage at long range due to it’s insane loft, its time of flight is vastly higher than the other options at play.
It’s not just because of that loft angle. Its motor burns out faster than any of ARH AAM, it’s a small missile with low mass and high drag for its size. Its range is low and the lofting angle set for it may inhibit its full capabilities to a minor extent, but they aren’t something special to begin with, nor is the effect of its loft angle as drastic as you seem to think.
Oh and sorry you are right that the Michael and the R-77 are inferior at high alt launches atm, I keep forgetting that they’re in such a broken state and gaijin refuses to fix them. Was thinking IRL capabilities when I thought about them in that regard, mb
At extreme ranges yes, but If I plug in the C-7’s guidance parameters into the derby on stat shark, it’s close range time to hit is improved, shaving about a second off of it’s flight time against close range targets, which it normally has issues with, especially when maneuvering.
Well now you are making me have to defend the R-77, 6 seconds vs 6.53, the Derby and Darter’s burn time is literally .47 seconds below the average which is 7 seconds with change.
The ironic bit is that the MICA is not only lighter but also sports a terrible drag coefficient for it’s size, yet, is surprisingly just a bit behind the Derby in performance at extreme ranges, if I give the MICA the C-7’s loft it gains quite a bit of performance at range, and beats the Derby and catches up to the long range ARH pack quite well.
It compounds the already existing faults to make it far worse than it should be.
Still the highest loft value in game by a fair margin and it does indeed effect it greatly.
Low altitude long range launches, both are fine if you launch them in orbit like every other ARH, the former is still the best ARH in the game by very large margin and the latter is preforming as designed, keep coping about your grid fins, it wont change physics.
Sure my guy.
Still funny how the C-5 being terrible thread still returns to other people coping about the R-77, history really does repeat itself.
I ain’t coping mate, I hardly ever used the damn thing ingame, it ain’t “my” grid fins or my missile. I prefer western aircraft and western AAMs, and if anything the Derby is my missile at heart. From everything I’ve read myself and what I’ve been told by people far more knowledgeable on the subject, the fact induced drag is not present ingame causes its kinematic to be underperforming. Its design is unorthodox, and will absolutely yield higher drag when maneuvering. However I’m not the guy to argue on this so I’ll drop it here, this is just what I’ve been told and what I believe, which is why I said what I said.
I was and am being serious, the Derby is a budget missile with a lack of range IRL and ingame, it’s well known for this.
I mis-read your chart, I thought it was at much higher altitudes and distances then you tried it at, don’t know how I misread that but I got this pulled up on my phone so maybe that’s a factor. Should have zoomed in on it, mb. I assumed you were bringing up the Derbys loft for those scenarios, not low alt launches. So, yeah you’re right. At lower altitudes that loft angle is going to hurt to a less decently noticeable degree, as it’s a different story then from high alt which is what I wrongly assumed was being discussed. Looking back on the convo I don’t know how I didn’t realize this sooner lmao.
Well tbf nearly every ARH AAM ingame is underperforming in some regard, almost every single missile has a lot of placeholder or copy paste stats and balance based stats.
Which is comical given the lack of control surfaces lmao. (This is just speculation but maybe the devs set it that way to account for induced drag from TVC in a similar way to the R-77?)
Double checked and you’re right. I don’t remember why but I seemed to have remember it being the lowest overall motor burn time for some reason, don’t know where I got that from as it isn’t the case at all.
I-Derby ER has double the range of the Derby and I-Derby however, and more range than that of the standard R-77. It’s capable yes, but it’s still a lower cost alternative to other options, that’s why it’s on the export market and why Israel themselves don’t use it. It’s meant to be a jack of all trades, but a master of none. It’s got decent range, great maneuverability, and a decent seeker (although it possibly didn’t have datalink IRL, from what I’ve been seeing lately that was added with the I-Derbys). It’s a good missile, there’s no disputing that, but it’s also one of the worst when keeping in mind those 3 key factors and comparing them to other ARH AAMs made around the same time. Same can be said for the I-Derby ER, as it’s easily able to be considered weak when you compare it to other ARH AAMs made around this point in time. It’s not bad, but it’s not amazing, it’s just good.
they do use it, however its specifically used on those airframes that are meant to be compatible with virtually everything israel uses so i get your argument
The IAF doesn’t, but Rafael has tested the Derby and its derivatives on a few IAF F-16 testbeds. They use the Aim-120 (Specifically the Aim-120B/C-5/C-7/C-8) and haven’t used any other ARH AAM. I’ve been told there’s claims that the Derby has been integrated into IAF F-16s and F-15s should the need to use them ever arise, but it’s yet to be demonstrated or confirmed.
I dont knoe about f15s and i doubt so. But as far as f16s the chance of it no being integrated is small to none, those aircraft are meant to use basically everything israel has and the derby itself is a missile thats designed from the griu d up with easy integration in mind
