I am pretty sure that the 12km hard cap listed for the AIM-9X is for ground launches, as that is also the range claimed for the SLAMRAAMs AIM-9X IRL
ok do you know the conditions that that is tested for?
it still doesnt mean anything and we wont know for sure until 9x is functional in game
but again it is the same motor as 9m which has significantly less range than ty90 when launched from a heli
The conditions for the range test of a ground launched AIM-9X?
Most likely launching from a stationary launcher towards a stationary or very slow target. How else would they figure out the range of a missile in SAM configuration?
Since the TY-90 is a missile explicitely developed for use on helicopters the launch conditions for the test would have been very similar to those for a SAM.
There isn’t much difference between a launch from the ground and a launch from a helicopter and again, the TY-90 has 6km range tops and the Sidewinder has 12km tops when launched from the ground and 18km tops when launched at altitude.
ok, so explain why in game the ty90 easily outranges the aim9m because it does when both have the same launch conditions
I can’t explain that, because it shouldn’t be the case and I don’t know why that would be the case.
Did you test this yourself? If so, how?
Edit: ok, so I just hopped into test flight on the desert map, used the TY-90 against the MiG-15 that spawns on the left and the missile self destructed after about 6km, then I hopped into my Harrier because I don’t have the AH-1Z, slowed down as much as possible and launched a AIM-9M.
The AIM-9M got to the MiG-15.
The TY-90 didn’t.
edit edit: MiG-15, not 19
what range did you launch from in the harrier?
Both at about 6.5km
Should also mention, spawned at Enemy Air Defense Zone
Edit: tested it again when spawning at 1km alt above the airfield, TY-90 cannot reach the MiG on the right, only the one on the left and only when the MiG gets within 6km range as the TY-90 self destructs after 6km flight.
The AIM-9M just happily keeps on flying and is capable of destroying both MiGs even beyond 6km.
really? because ive had 9ms launched from a fast moving jet regularly fall short on 4-5km side aspect shots
They would at least have an interesting sort of gimmick to make it worth grind for someone into helis
Against other moving targets, I assume?
The actual flight range of the missile still is 12-18km depending on altitude, but against a moving target the missile has a harder time following the target since the booster/rocket motor on the missile doesn’t burn indefinitely it loses velocity over time, meaning the target can outrun the missile.
The MiGs in test flight are subsonic, so the AIM-9M can keep up with them even after burning for a while. The TY-90 possibly could also reach the MiGs beyond 6km, but it is hardwired to self-destruct.
The maximum guidance time is the deciding factor here, the TY-90 stops tracking after 12 seconds, while the Sidewinder tracks for a whole minute.
The TY-90 has a ~50% higher delta V than AIM-9L/M (and apparently the AIM-9X doesnt get an engine upgrade, at least in the early versions). It’s lighter, so it loses speed to drag quicker, but the useful aerodynamic range is still far bigger. It can be dodged especially at closer ranges due to the compararively poor overload.
AIM-9X has lower drag, which should already lead to better acceleration and maybe top speed over an AIM-9M (top speed is still classified). There is also a possibility a higher grain propellant was used so a different motor isn’t necessary.
All-in-all, the range should be at least the same as the M or better.
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That’d just amount to a pretty small, incremental upgrade over the 9L/M in terms of range though. It wouldn’t close the gap to the TY-90.
Actually I’m pretty sure even Stinger and Igla are more dangerous than the AIM-9L/M beyond 5 km or so.
Not sure about the Igla, but the Stinger definitely is a lot worse than a heli launched Sidewinder beyond that range
It really depends on the opponents trajectory. If it’s trying to follow a manoeuvering target flying away the 9M will start falling out of the air after about 5-5.5km whereas the Stingers sustainer motor will keep it going up to around 6 or 7 (providing the seeker kept tracking anyway). Doesn’t matter too much since the 9M is so much deadlier in closing engagements which is basically most Heli vs Jet.
Not sure about Igla either, I’ll have to test that later.
It would surpass TY-90 handily. I’d argue the 9M already does with higher G pull, HMS compatibility and smokeless motor.
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The AIM-9X also uses jet vanes for its thrust vector control, which reduce the effective thrust by some amount compared to the AIM-9M
This study I found puts the general thrust losses from jet vanes at 3% to 6.5% depending on the AOA of the vane and angle of the divergent nozzle
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/307108364_COMPUTATIONAL_STUDY_ON_REDUCTION_OF_THRUST_LOSS_IN_JET_VANE_THRUST_VECTORING_NOZZLE
Edit: The early variants of the AIM-9X atleast also used modified AIM-9M motors (stuff like the wing ribs were simply machined off), so they most likely have the same grain.
With new grain it would probably be cheaper to just make a new motor, if that stuff can even be replaced at all
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I meant it wouldn’t close the gap in terms of range. Overall the 9X would be much more deadly in many situations, and especially in self defense. Like you said, the 9M is already at an advantage in those situations most of the time.
The TY-90s range advantage would probably mean that it’s still better when you’re trying to play the helicopter as AA, but that’s much less workable at top tier anyways and with only two AIM-9s you’re pretty much stuck with just using them for self defense anyways.
(Proper) AIM-9Xs would turn the AH-1Z into a AA monster, even with only two of them. We don’t know how the 9Xs will perform as SAMs yet, but based on the real life power of IIR I don’t think they should be added to a heli just yet.
I can’t imagine the TY-90s being that good for AA at 12.0+, having 8 or more of them means that you can intercept enemy missiles though. They are limited to 6km range, the Sidewinders can easily exceed that range.
The AH-1Z is 12.0, you have to keep that in mind. The CAS and fighters at that BR easily outrange the TY-90s tiny 6km range. Maybe this is just my own preference, but I’d much rather have 2 missiles that I can just send out at target at range than 8-16 missiles that cannot even reach their target most of the time.
Don’t get me wrong, on the Z-9Ws (10.3 and 11.0) the TY-90s are monsters, but not at 12.0.