Excluding the fuel tanks I’m strongly opposed to any of these additions without a BR increase. The F-4J and especially S are already excellent 12.0s, any significant increase in capability without a corresponding increase in BR is simply powercreep and compression that the game absolutely does not need.
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You’re also strongly opposed to the idea of more countermeasures?
Yes. One of the main weaknesses/balancing factors of the F-4J/S especially compared to the British Phantoms is the paltry countermeasure count. Being able to carry an additional six AN/ALE-37s on pylons 1/9 would add a whooping 1,440 countermeasures- 24x the current amount. F-4s would never stop spamming flares!
Now if a BR increase to even just 12.3 was to accompany them, I would be in favour of any and all of these additions.
Why would anyone want to carry that many, and why would the devs even give players the option? Think about it rationally.
I never said I’d want it to carry that many in the first place. At most, I’d like the option to carry one on each side, maybe two if Gaijin is feeling generous.
In-game, these are modeled as small-caliber countermeasures, so the increase would be noticeable, but I think you’re seriously overestimating how much of a difference it would make.
Why would anyone want to carry an obscene amount of countermeasures? Are you serious?
By advocating for artificially restricted loadout options, it’s evident the claim that this is “intended to improve historical accuracy rather than alter game balance” is a bald-faced lie.
You’re not advocating for historical accuracy, you’re just asking Gaijin to buff an aircraft you like. Artificially limited compatibility for a historical ordinance is no better than complete absence of that ordinance; I’d even say it’s worse.
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I think you’ve misunderstood what I was trying to suggest.
I never said the AIM-9L should be added without considering its impact on battle rating or overall balance. In fact, I deliberately avoided making any BR recommendations because that would be a separate discussion. I’m well aware of how capable the AIM-9L is, which is why I suggested limiting the F-4J to carrying only two of them rather than allowing a full load.
I also think the concern about the countermeasures is being overstated. Even with the proposed AN/ALE-37 pod, the F-4J and S would simply be brought closer to the capabilities of several aircraft it already faces, such as the Mirage F1, JA37D, and Tornado F.3. The proposal is based on documented compatibility, not on giving the aircraft an unrealistic advantage.
As for the F-4J receiving changes instead of the F-4S, that was intentional. The F-4S is already the more capable aircraft in-game thanks to its slats. Giving the F-4J a historically documented capability, if the evidence supports it, would help distinguish the two aircraft rather than making the F-4S obsolete.
My suggestions aren’t about favoring one nation or buffing an aircraft simply because I like it. The aim is to identify historically documented equipment that has been overlooked and make a case for its inclusion. I’d make the same argument for any aircraft, regardless of which nation it belongs to, if the historical evidence supported it.
For F-4J, unchange battle rating and not received AIM-9L
I want gaijin add F-4S (with AIM-9L) for researchable vehicles tech tree to early rank VIII before F/A-18 Hornet group someday
That would be an unnecessary copy-and-paste addition to the game, so I don’t agree with it. It would be an incredibly controversial addition because the last thing we need is more pointless copy-and-paste vehicles.
Give it everything but move it up to 12.3 at least, they are already pretty powerful for 12.0 and giving them enough countermeasures to face arh missiles will eliminate the worry about full up tiers to 13.3.
That’s my mistake for not making it clear, but I never said it should stay at 12.0 with a full loadout of AIM-9Ls because that would make it too strong compared to other aircraft in certain situations. On the other hand, limiting it to two wouldn’t exactly be game-breaking and would be limited to the F-4J which would help people with the awful stock grind and also make it standout a little bit compared to that F-4s. As for the extra countermeasures, that’s simply a quality-of-life improvement that would help the aircraft’s survivability.
It is not a suggestion… This is a true fact, unless of course this is supposed to be a draft.
Bootleg
mmm historic weapons for both F-4 and Mig-23 would be great
I say yes to flares, even tho the flight performace would suffer a bit its way better than 60 flares and slightly better airframe
For the 9L i say no, mostly bc it would mean being 12.3 and being honest the f4s/j radar would not be effective at a higher br
I just posted part 3
I honestly think they should go up a BR step already.
That’s just silly. These aircraft would be overtiered at 12.3 with their current missiles. The only way they’d be playable at that battle rating is with the addition of AIM-9Ms and AIM-7Ms. Without those, they’d be completely outclassed, even at their own battle rating (12.3).
The F-4S probably could, yeah, as it’s just a direct upgrade over the J. Personally I’d prefer 9Ls and 12.3 for that. Though honestly having the F-4S be a premium instead of like the F-4N is just a big mistake since it’s the best naval Phantom.