Adaptive Multipath Radar Behavior for FOX-1 and FOX-3 Missiles Based on Generation and Technology Level

[KaiserGX]

The situations you’re describing aren’t as specific as they seem. If you played top tier regularly, you’d know these things happen all the time. Most players run out of FOX-3s halfway through the match because they launch them like fireworks. And honestly, you don’t need to pull off crazy moves to survive these planes are perfectly beatable. The reason they’re at BR 13.0 isn’t just because of their missiles, but because of their speed and agility, which do make a difference.

Of course, everything is up for debate. But if you check Gaijin’s official suggestions section, you’ll see that there are currently no official proposals for BR decompression. That tells us one of two things: either Gaijin already has it in their plans, or they’re simply not interested in doing it.

Unfortunately, my previous suggestion no longer exists. I assume it was removed after I stopped following it, especially since the thread turned very toxic due to some users. I also made another post, just a simple comment without a poll, and it was mostly ignored. On the other hand, there’s a decompression poll made by someone else which, surprisingly, proposes an aggressive decompression up to BR 15.0, and yet has 91% approval. My own poll, last time I checked, had around 46% support, and it only proposed going up to 13.7.

That said, we also need to consider that specific polls like these are often biased, since the only people voting are those who actively searched for that thread or topic. If we consider that War Thunder has over 100,000 active players, a poll with just 121 votes, like the current one, barely represents anything. That’s why it’s so important for these discussions to appear in the official suggestions section, or even better, to be addressed through in-game polls run by Gaijinwhich sadly haven’t happened in a while, but would be incredibly useful.

Now, to be fair, things have improved. We’re already at BR 14.0, which was unthinkable just a few months ago. Maybe, just maybe we’ll reach 14.7 or 15.0 in the future, but right now there’s no solid reason to justify it. If it happened, we’d just see constant matches of Su-30SM vs F/A-18, and that wouldn’t be healthy for the game either.

And let’s not overstate things: there’s no MiG-23 sitting at 11.7, and the F-15J will most likely cap at 12.7. So it’s really not as bad as it may seem if you look at it objectively.

[Normandy_Corsair]

As someone who also plays regularly, what you say is to me like saying the sky is yellow and purple and the grass is neon. The game MASSIVELY needs decompression.

[Normandy_Corsair]

@KaiserGX

And let’s not overstate things: there’s no MiG-23 sitting at 11.7

You are… just … ignorant I guess? There are 3 in RB MiG-23ML, MiG-23MLA, and MiG-23MLD. The F-15 will also just stomp the F-4S and Mirage F1 and every other jet even slightly below it.

[KaiserGX]

Don’t get frustrated. Starting with insults only shows anger and frustration, which is understandable especially if you haven’t yet reached high-tier aircraft. But you’re playing as Russia, so eventually you’ll gain access to some of the strongest jets in the game.

That said, the way you’re expressing yourself makes it clear that you’re not interested in open discussion, but rather in imposing your opinion. You’ve made your point, and that’s fine, but this thread isn’t about rehashing the decompression debate it’s about introducing a new mechanic that could enrich gameplay across multiple BR levels.

I admit I wasn’t fully up to date with the lower BR ranges after the recent changes previously the cap was 11.3, and it increased as part of a past decompression update. So I apologize for not having that in mind during this discussion.

That said, I won’t spend more time in a conversation that lacks flexibility or a willingness to listen. If you believe your perspective deserves attention, you’re welcome to create your own poll or submit a suggestion in the official channel. This thread is focused on providing a viable solution within the current game structure, not on restructuring the entire BR system from scratch.

All I’ve suggested is that, for now, it’s more practical and beneficial to implement a new mechanic like adaptive multipath behavior, which could even benefit 13.0 aircraft and those without FOX-3s, rather than wait for another full decompression pass which may eventually happen, but isn’t the core direction Gaijin seems to be taking.

[BasherBenDawg8]

@KaiserGX

there’s no MiG-23 sitting at 11.7

There’s 3 in Air RB, the MiG-23ML (USSR Premium), MiG-23MLA (Germany), and MiG-23MLD (USSR).

Nvm, I see you’ve been told/realized already.

@KaiserGX

The calculation is an approximation so as not to make it 100% real or otherwise it would be unplayable on the maps, since there are planes that have Multipath up to 5 meters and it would be unviable, but it would be something that would diversify, and of course some would benefit and others would be harmed, for example it would encourage you to have variety, since you can estimate that one guided by radar, would serve you better at short distance or against a target that is flying low than a fox-3.

I personally want historically accurate Radar Guided missiles, however I would like them to have something more to it. An example could be it only being fully accurate in simulator battles, while soft nerfed for balance in Air RB/AB. Another idea could be making any aircraft carrying radar guided missiles with a PD radar enter a completely different bracket or higher BR range. Slow aircraft with only IR AAMs shouldn’t even have to face these things to begin with at the current state of things imo. I really want to see this for ARH AAMs in particular, and to have ARH AAMs not only have their realistic capabilities, but for BVR fights to also be realistic, forcing high alt BVR engagements and not deck skimming jousts. Just a big realism lover here. I’d also like to see directional warheads added, which could make missiles like ARH missiles less likely to deal splash damage from multipathing.

[KaiserGX]

If I understand you correctly, I actually like realism, but it would be difficult, because if that were the case, one of the main nations, and I think the one Gaijin cares most about, would be seriously affected. The more realistic the better, but I don’t see it as possible without Gaijin changing their overall stance. Even considering the Long Range, it would be brutal to see something with that level of realism.

I also like to play a lot in simulator.

[Normandy_Corsair]

@KaiserGX

You’ve made your point, and that’s fine, but this thread isn’t about rehashing the decompression debate it’s about introducing a new mechanic that could enrich gameplay across multiple BR levels.

My point is directly related to adding this. It can’t happen without pretty hardcore decompression.

@KaiserGX

which could even benefit 13.0 aircraft and those without FOX-3s,

driving MP even lower does nothing but make gameplay even more unforgiving.

[BeautifulTai_wan]

I’ll tentatively vote yes, but the stats definitely need to be tweaked for the missiles according to IRL data.

AIM-7F and E were almost incapable of actually doing look down attacks, R-27R and ER should share seekers (last I checked they were the same missile in terms of seeker just one with big booster), AIM-54C basically should ignore multipath with the gigantic warhead and directional fuse, and so on.

AIM-7F is one missile that would take a very significant nerf with realistic multipath, apparently there are reports of it encountering MP reflections at altitudes above 500 meters. Which is actually good, there’s basically no point in using a Phantom with Skyflash missiles when the AIM-7F is just outright superior in all applications.

[DevilO6]

@Morvran

Skyflash had a min engagement altitude of 33m

Just to clarify, it was not due to MP. It was set there to prevent missile proximity fuze from triggering on something that might have been on the ground. Its MP limit was lower than that.

[KaiserGX]

It is understood, in reality this is tentative and really if Gaijin were to accept it it would have to be reviewed in more detail and tested, in a realistic but fair way so that it is not something that could totally ruin the experience for everyone.

[Nick_Cloud]

@KaiserGX

On the other hand, there’s a decompression poll made by someone else which, surprisingly, proposes an aggressive decompression up to BR 15.0, and yet has 91% approval. My own poll, last time I checked, had around 46% support, and it only proposed going up to 13.7.

If you mean my poll BR Decompression in Air RB (POLL) has an approval 93% , the problem is …28 voters?? No one cares. 28 voters isn’t a number that someone will take seriously.
Not to mention , some people payed more attention to 15.0 than the decompression.
In fact i made it in a rush , when i was at work and i didn’t fix that (with a 3d option that just says decompression or something) , because i saw the attendance was horrific.
And i can’t change the poll (i tried) . So if you want make another one. It’ll be a meme if i start making 10 polls for the same thing!

Also, it’s not agressive if you think that , the 1 BR diffrence to the max limit … is at top tier. I propsed it specifically to make space for the tiers below.
There are entire BRs which are nearly unplayabe for some vehicles , so the limit has to go up to create some space for them. It doesn’t affect ^top tier^ .

[V_Rohnin_V]

The Idea is to stop flying below 50m (a.k.a. not useing the MP as a crutch).

[Kathryn_Janeway]

I’m fine with this but need to fix the hundred meters high trees first.

[Normandy_Corsair]

using MP at all is using it as a crutch in your view.

[PyroAddict]

Global MP is more than a game limitation rather than a particular rule for every missile AFAIK, so if its the case, they need to develop the proper code and mechanic to allow missiles to have custom MPs

[noamax]

Great idea but we need a rework of arb befire that and also it would change alot if br placements

[noister]

I really like this idea, but some changes, stuff like aim120c5 and r77-1 honestly shouldn’t go lower than 30m, even tho It won’t be realistic, it would atleast stillmake multipathing viable, as even with 50m multipath, there’s a good chance that the missiles connects, it would also be nice if we get varying multipath effect for different surfaces, like multipath effect would be less above sea, but much higher at uneven terrain, urban areas and above trees.

Also, shouldn’t arh missiles have a bit more multipathing effect than sarh? The missiles has its own radar, while it’s beamwidth is smaller, side lobes also exist and near the ground they might effect it a bit?

[GranColombia]

That proposal would definitely get all the players off the ground. I play a lot of SIM, and the AIM-120 and R-77-1 players are the only ones who go up to spawn these missiles; they always average 2 to 3 kills. The problem is precisely that defensive options are limited, and dogfights would be reduced.

[Ungern_Sternberg]

I agree, the new SAMs need to have access to a wider area of ​​the map, both to improve the gameplay of SAMs themselves and other players.