I genuinely don’t know if I’ve ever seen people to not one the abrams turret ring to be fixed.
I have seen people to not want the 2A7 fixed, the adding of East German vehicles and removal of the 2A7.
I’ve also seen a lot of US mains say stuff like “lol you want the Ariete fixed? Maybe it shouldn’t have sucked so hard in real life”
Historical accuracies should be fixed across the board. I think people are upset at US players for claiming their stuff is the only broken one, and that they get treated horribly when in fact that is not the case.
Just look how long it took for the ariete to get a reload buff like the abrams did.
Some US mains are so disconnected from the reality of things, that they consider the 2A6 to be a cut above the things that fit the meta better, or are outright superior to it (namely, M1A2 SEPs).
That’s basically it. It’s impossible to have a discussion about Russian/Chinese equipment without US mains coming in and dismissing concerns and issues, and it makes discussions quite tiring. Even talking about low tier stuff will have people saying “Russian bias”. They also only ever seem to be focused on top tier ground(but not air), which is kinda funny.
There’s also daily threads about Russian bias, which isn’t real.
…and it’s impossible to have a discussion about the Abrams without Russian/Chinese mains coming in and dismissing concerns and issues, with a vicious disgust that I’ve only seen against “U.S mains” to such degree.
The difference is, look at the Norinco/ZTZ thread. It’s perfectly clean and United, just people discussing these MBTs’ issues. It was never brigaded like the Abrams threads are.
I honestly feel like the whole “b- but U.S mains do it more!!1!” Is a false excuse based on maybe a few punctual exceptions. The hate against “U.S mains” on the other hand is consistently systematic.
Ugh. It’s so tiring to just play every nation and want all vehicles to be fixed… these “X main” tribal wars bore me already. Why can’t mains just live and let live instead of turning every damn issue related thread into a flame war?
“Muh stick must be bigger than yours” i.e me want this, you can’t have that, cue Germany asking for better CAS, France wanting an actual IFV, Italy hoping to eventually become a relevant minor nation.
I think the issue is the tone of the original post, a lot of the better kept and discussed threads are Tech Data and Discussion. Unfortunately the Abrams doesn’t have one of those, all the threads are titled something along the lines of “Abrams too weak” or “Nerf X and Y”. It just starts it out on the wrong foot.
TLDR: Make Abrams Tech Data and Discussion thread and problems go bye bye
Hard to disagree, the vast majority of Abrams/US related threads that I have seen and/or participated in, have been started primarily by the OP as a means of venting after a string of poor matches (or to simply rant that his favorite vehicle isn’t as good as he wish it was). These threads are typically titled in a way that invites dissent from people whose only intention is to disagree with the content of the thread and its creator—which, more often than not, is a rather misguided opinion derived from the OP’s incapacity to play the vehicle in question, which also generally opens doors for wads of trolls/people who get a kick out of the guy that is ranting (to be completely honest, this thread in itself is a prime example of this, though, in fairness to the OP, all he did was ask what people think of the vehicle, and the people I’ve described poured in regardless, but I’d blame that on sartt and how easy he’s to troll more than anything else).
Not saying there haven’t been threads that go against what I’ve said above and are actually productive (there have been, but they’ve also been burried under the pile of rant threads that pop up pretty much on the daily).
He isn’t wrong that the 2A7 probably shouldn’t have been added before we got genuine fixes for the current MBTs. Type 10, Merkava, Leclerc, Abrams, and Ariete at the very least are underperforming.
2A6 is much closer in performance to M1A2 currently than 2A7.
But like with the Pantsir, the solution isn’t to remove anything but to add equal stuff to other nations.
While I agree it gets pretty ridiculous, I think the hate for US mains also comes from the fact they are the loudest and most obnoxious ones. In my experience, a lot of them have this weird NCD mindset that everything American must be the best at all times, and that Gaijin is an evil russian propaganda machine specifically out to get them. Everything russian is artificially buffed as propaganda while everything else is artificially nerfed, because Putin cares quite a lot about what war thunder players think.
I’m all for fixing the Abrams turret ring and such, but it’s just aggravating to have to wade through dozens of posts about “Russian propaganda” because people have developed a victim complex over a free to play game.
The rant threads are also a huge issue, there’s no way to stop them so it would be much better if they could all vent about it in one thread, there’s nothing wrong with venting after all.
But for real productive discussion a Tech Data and Discussion thread would be better, I’m not the person for that but maybe @SPANISH_AVENGER could give it a go?
It shouldn’t have been, and here is where the brutal irony comes in. We (the German mains) were the first ones to say it out loud that it’s far too early for any 2A7 modification to appear in the game for X, Y, and Z reasons (armor, firepower, survivability, etc.) and kept on suggesting the various 2A6 mods instead (like the 2A6MA3). Nobody listened to what we had been saying at the time since most assumed it’d be like fighting the pre-spall liner patch Strv 122s, i.e., hard to penetrate, but once it is, it will die, and the rest is history.
This is why I am so thirsty for new MBTs and why my wait for major updates has felt like torture for a long time lol.
The Leopard 2A7s and the totally needed 3rd Strv 122 were added in December 2023 with the introduction of Rank VIII, and ever since, there hasn’t been ONE single new Rank VIII MBT to compete with them. Everyone else’s “Rank VIII” MBTs are just former Rank VIIs that were moved up…
We need M1A2 SEPv3, the same way we need Leclerc XLR, and the same way we need the Leclercs, Merkavas, Type 10s, etc… FIXED.
The gap between the 2A7s/122s and the rest of the tanks is so big not just because there aren’t proper counterparts; but because many vehicles that could be at least partial counterparts are underperforming like hell.
Imagine if Type 10 accelerated to its top speed twice as fast as it currently does, as it should; and if its steering didn’t cause it to lose all its speed and drift a 180º turn because you pressed A/D for 0.5 seconds.
Imagine if Merkava Mk.4 weighted its proper 80 tons, but had Strv 122-level armor and comically strong side armor.
Imagine if Leclerc’s UFP wasn’t weaker than T-64A’s and if it actually accelerated like a tank that’s 10 tons lighter than the Leopards and which has a hyperbar powerplant.
Etc. They would stand a much better chance and Top Tier would be much more balanced.
Many of us were actually happy about Leopard 2A7V because, back then, Russian tanks were OP as hell because their ammo racks wouldn’t detonate 80% of the times, hahah. So Leopard 2A7V was deemed to be, at last, a worthy counterpart to T-80BVM, etc.
The funny thing is… Gaijin fixed the ammo rack bug right after releasing Leopard 2A7V; so Leopard 2A7V went from being a very needed T-80BVM counterpart… to being a destroyer of T-80BVMs (and everything else) xD.
And, of course, I think it’s only fair that Germany finally got their first uparmored Leopard after Sweden had already got 3 of them…
The issue is, everyone should have received equal counterparts to the 122s, not just Germany; and, as I said earlier, not just via new additions, but also through fixes of already ingame vehicles.
So was I, since I had made a suggestion for it, but as the same time I was also dissatisfied with its implementation because it wasn’t and still isn’t as good as it should be, but even with the crutches it had to rely on (pre-nerf spall liners), it was still only second to the Strv 122B+ in terms of capability which by itself was light years ahead of the competition, so the only things I could look forwards to at the time were nerfs. Literally a situation in which nobody’s happy.
And, of course, I think it’s only fair that Germany finally got their first uparmored Leopard after Sweden had already got 3 of them…
Funny thing, most of the guys I know would’ve been more than happy with just 3rd gen thermals of the 2A6A3, the 2A7V wasn’t even on their minds at the time xD
I am not going to lie, I prefer Leopard 2A7V over the Strv 122s despite the weaker lineup, underperforming acceleration, lower top speed and underperforming armor for the 3rd Gen thermals alone, hahahah.
I wish they added MA3 as a mod for 2A6! Kinda like the UBH mods. Or even as a new vehicle. Just give me more of those 3rd Gen thermals xD.
To me, being able to easily and pleasantly see is a very important thing. Gen 1 thermals hurt my eyes xD.
Same, I made many Forum and Reddit posts criticising and mocking the devs’ decission of modelling 2A7V’s armor after TVM’s, and when they turned the spall liners into a hit-or-miss nearly cosmetic item, it was the cherry on top… again, artificial nerfs just to avoid adding proper counterparts for everyone…
I still enjoy it and it’s still better than nearly anything else, though!
