AMD-35 - The Soviet Trophy Panhard 178

Would you like to see the Soviet AMD-35 added?
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Flag_of_the_Soviet_Union.svg AMD-35 - The Soviet Trophy Panhard 178
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French armored cars AMD-35. used in the Wehrmacht under the designation Panard 178 (f), at repair base No. 82 in Moscow. The front armored car has already been repaired and is intended for transfer to the Red Army. The car was repainted in the standard Soviet protective color 4B0. April 1942


History
When the Wehrmacht rolled through France in 1940, they inherited hundreds of these rugged AMD-35 armored cars, renaming them the Panzerspähwagen P204(f). The Germans loved them for their heavy armor and unusual dual-steering setup, which let drivers whip the vehicle backward almost as fast as it could go forward. They shipped them straight to the East to scout the Soviet expanse. But as the Red Army clawed back territory during the winter counter-offensives of 1941 and 1942, they didn’t just push the Germans back; they scooped up an ungodly mountain of abandoned, broken, and captured enemy hardware.

Suddenly, Soviet logicians and mechanics at depots like Base No. 82 found themselves staring at a logistical chimera: a French chassis, German field modifications, and an absolute void of native spare parts or 25mm ammunition.

Yet, desperation breeds ingenuity. Rather than letting a solid armored hullgo to waste, the technicians at the Moscow base dragged this particular P204(f) into the shop, patched up its battle or operational scars, and completely overhauled it. In a symbolic and practical touch, they stripped away the German markings and slathered the entire vehicle in standard Soviet 4BO protective olive green paint, preparing it to be handed right back to the Red Army to fight its former owners.

It wasn’t the start of some massive, standardized program the Soviets weren’t about to set up supply lines for French tankettes but in the grinding attrition of 1942, if a vehicle rolled and shot, the Red Army would take it.

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Serving with the 2nd SS Panzer Division “Das Reich,” this particular P 204(f) belonged to the SS Panzer Reconnaissance Battalion 2. A close look at its registration reveals it carries an official SS license format, pointing to a vehicle sourced directly through SS supply channels rather than standard Wehrmacht stocks. Its tactical markings further identify it as part of a specialized motorized cavalry reconnaissance unit that relied heavily on requisitioned French armor. According to Trackstory n°2, this setup highlights how mixed and ad-hoc early-war German formations could be when outfitting their reconnaissance elements with captured equipment.


Specifications

General

  • Origin: France, Captured by Germany then captured by the Soviet Union
  • Combat Weight: 8.2 metric tons
  • Crew: 4
  • Dimensions: 4.79 m (L) x 2.01 m (W) x 2.31 m (H)
  • Wheelbase / Drive Configuration: 4×4, all-wheel drive

Armament

  • Primary Armament: 25mm SA 35 L/72 semi-automatic gun
    • Ammunition Capacity: 150 rounds
    • Elevation Limits: -12° / +15°
    • Turret Traverse Rate: 14°/s (Manual)
    • Ammunition Types:
      • Modèle 1934 APCBC: Solid armor-piercing shot
        • Muzzle Velocity: 900 m/s
  • Secondary Armament: 1x 7.5mm Reibel MAC 31 coaxial machine gun
    • Ammunition Capacity: 3,750 rounds (150-round drum magazines)

Armor Protection

  • Armor Material: Riveted face-hardened steel plates
  • Hull:
    • Upper Front Plate: 20mm / 30°
    • Lower Front Plate: 20mm / 15°
    • Sides: 15 mm / 0°
    • Rear: 15 mm / 0°
    • Roof / Floor:*7mm
  • Turret (APX 3):
    • Front / Mantlet: 20mm
    • Sides: 15mm
    • Rear: 15mm
    • Roof: 7mm

Mobility

  • Engine: Panhard 4IS 4-cylinder liquid-cooled petrol engine
  • Power Output: 105 hp at 2,000 RPM
  • Power-to-Weight Ratio: 12.8 hp/ton
  • Transmission: 4 forward / 4 reverse manual transmission
  • Max Speed: 72 km/h (Forward and Reverse)
  • Operational Range: 300 km

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“Soviet soldiers pose during training with french made AMD 35 (Panhard 178) armored vehicles, which previously served in the Wehrmacht and were captured during Battle of Moscow.”


Sources

Почто выбрасывать хорошую вещь? : История оружия
Трофейные танки Красной Армии. На «тиграх» на Берлин! - Альтернативная История
Panhard 178 - Wikipedia
https://www.militaryimages.net/threads/trophies.9705/page-6

5 Likes

-1, the soviets had much nicer domestic designs for armoured cars in my personal opinion.

13 Likes

I think there are better picks for low BR USSR but great research did not know they captured them.
tumblr_pp9fujx5nE1qendyvo2_500

1 Like

big -1.

Russia has no need to grab everyone elses stuff

3 Likes

Can it fire domestic soviet 25mm shells? Such as the ones from the 72k ?

Nah sorry.

The soviets have better option in native designs, the tree does not need a reserve light tank and it also does not need another nation’s vehicle for no real reason.

3 Likes

Which was already standart for their 8 Rad.

1 Like

Its not apcbc, its just AP, with a copper jacket and thin lead nose.

1 Like

Currently not a lot is known, but that is possible as ammunition for French weapons was basically nonexistent beyond what Germany had.
But chances are they were used as Adhoc vehicles. Just repainted and given a Soviet Roundel

+1

I would much rather see this than another lazy copy-paste with a set of nickers on it for a “difference”.

As far as we know, that’s all it may be.

-1
There isn’t anything particularly standout about the AMD.35 in Soviet service that warrants its addition. It’s just a French tank in olive paint.
USSR has a lots of interesting domestic and modified vehicles left to add to the low ranks, so it’s not like this is heavily needed to fill out a line-up either.


It has power traverse with a speed of 18°/s. It had manual traverse too for fine correction, but this only rotated the turret 1.77° per handwheel turn, so even 10°/s manual traverse is optimistic.


Besides the shell type, the velocity is also suspect. The 1937 APX.3 manual claims 920 m/s for a “surchargée” round, which makes a bit more sense for a shortened 25 mm than the 950 m/s figure I’ve seen commonly claimed.
That’s the only decent source I have for the shorter, vehicle version of the 25 mm specifically, since most sources focus on the longer-barreled 25 mm AT guns.

2 Likes

I’m aware there are other options, one such as the BA-64 with the PTRS, surprisingly it hasn’t been added yet.
IMG_1057

3 Likes

For the Charge Forte, the german “Gerät Fremden Heeres” also gives 950, i also saw a spanish page, which also gave such. Tho overall not shure.
For the long barreled normal charge its 918 m/s by a german manual.

+1
Active duty in Red Army. Have my support.

3 Likes

My current theory is that a typical 25 mm L/72 AT guns does around 918-920 m/s with a normal charge. It might be achieving 950 m/s using the higher charge rounds. This would roughly line up with an excerpt from Wikimaginot.
A 1937 manual and a 1940 report on experimental ammunition also mention 918 m/s as the velocity for a typical round.

Spoiler

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…but an 1940 ammunition index and a different 1940 report on experimental ammunition list velocity as 900 m/s.

Spoiler

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By all means, please suggest those and I’ll support them. USSR is missing a lot of significant vehicles.

That was suggested and passed awhile ago.

why not bang the drum for that instead of everyone else stuff all the time then? Almost all of your suggestions are for non native designs when theres no shortage of soviet options at all.

seems like a mixup of priorities unless you want there to only be one tree for everything

1 Like

Uhm. It was already suggested?
And no I will continue to make suggestions for things the Soviets put into service.

1 Like