PanzerAce

International Tank Tech Tree-Let's Build It

Executive Decision

 

KV-1 is an Era 2 Heavy tank, with 75mm armor and a 76mm gun.

 

The Nahuel is balanced compared to the KV-1. A 75mm gun, but more armor. (80mm sloped back at what looks to be 30+ degrees)

 

Nahuel going to era two, unless you guys have imput to add. 

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Executive Decision

 

KV-1 is an Era 2 Heavy tank, with 75mm armor and a 76mm gun.

 

The Nahuel is balanced compared to the KV-1. A 75mm gun, but more armor. (80mm sloped back at what looks to be 30+ degrees)

 

Nahuel going to era two, unless you guys have imput to add. 

 

Reasonable enough. Trying to collect data on gun performance, do you have any? Going to post assessment of medium tank line later.

 

EDIT: L/30 gun still seems underwhelming, but I can't argue with the armour.

EDIT2: Still can't imagine a 45mm cannon armed vehicle with limited mobility and 40mm's of armour at Rank 2 (Vânătorul de care R-35). I say it could be end of Rank 1, but I think it is insufficient for Rank 2.

Also, correction on previous statement: Main gun of the Turán III is an L/43 not an L/48, but I maintain it's position in the tree.

EDIT3: Why is the 7TP listed as reserve? I can understand the B20 Toldi being listed as reserve, but the 7TP has way better armament than a reserve (that said I believe the T-26 will be a reserve with the 45mm gun?)

 

More later.

Edited by piritskenyer
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Oh, I see

I had read of the 7TP having a .50 inch AT rifle, but that must have been a modification of the twin turret version. I shall move it up.

The care slipped through the net, thanks.

I could not actually find a penetration figure for the Nahuel. The sources I read were somewhat vague on it's gun. Do you have a source I do not for it?
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Oh, I see

I had read of the 7TP having a .50 inch AT rifle, but that must have been a modification of the twin turret version. I shall move it up.

The care slipped through the net, thanks.

I could not actually find a penetration figure for the Nahuel. The sources I read were somewhat vague on it's gun. Do you have a source I do not for it?

 

Okay on the 7TP

No on the Nahuel's gun.

Check your inbox.

 

EDIT: I suggest changing up the M3A3 FlaK 38 and the 40M Nimród, as the Nimród is armed with a 40mm Bofors AA gun, and the M3A3 is armed with a 20mil...

Edited by piritskenyer
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Okay on the 7TP
No on the Nahuel's gun.
Check your inbox.

EDIT: I suggest changing up the M3A3 FlaK 38 and the 40M Nimród, as the Nimród is armed with a 40mm Bofors AA gun, and the M3A3 is armed with a 20mil...


Error in translation/transition.

The Sherman Krupp and the Sherman 105 are the two vehicles. The Krupp Is the 75mm 190??? Howitser.
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Error in translation/transition.

The Sherman Krupp and the Sherman 105 are the two vehicles. The Krupp Is the 75mm 190??? Howitser.

 

Can you be a bit more specific on the Krupp variant?

Edited by piritskenyer
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Well if you are looking for premiums I can tell you all the tanks used by the Romanian Army during WW2. But as Romanian factories could not make the parts for maintaining said captured they where captured and used till they broke down.

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http://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Krupp-75mm-field-gun-batey-haosef-1.jpg

Found this photo of one at an Isreali army yard. Could be it. I have almost no details

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krupp_7.5_cm_Model_1903

 

Closest thing I could find. Barrel and barrel slide rail look pretty similar. Also, the wikipedia entry states that the Danes may have rebuilt some of the guns with a configuration similar to the picture you linked. Breech assembly looks identical and upon research on the internet I have found a [url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/Krupp-75mm-field-gun-batey-haosef-1-3.jpg/800px-Krupp-75mm-field-gun-batey-haosef-1-3.jpg]picture[/url] of our Israeli gun with a 1906 manufacture stamping in the rear face of the breech, so I assume these are Danish converted guns. Any info on the mating of these guns to Shermans, their look, or any info?

 

One more thing: Calibre length of this 75mm gun matches the calibre length of the gun on the T-6M41 (L/30). May be something, may be nothing.

 

EDIT: typo.

Edited by piritskenyer
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Well if you are looking for premiums I can tell you all the tanks used by the Romanian Army during WW2. But as Romanian factories could not make the parts for maintaining said captured they where captured and used till they broke down.

 

Tell me, did the M-05 use the suspension of the LT-38?

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Tell me, did the M-05 use the suspension of the LT-38?

No it used a Rogifer suspension. Rogifer was a Romanian Army Weapons manufacturer of light tanks and artillery tractors in WW2.

Edited by Linx6
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No it used a Rogifer suspension. Rogifer was a Romanian Army Weapons manufacturer of light tanks and artillery tractors in WW2.

 

I'm asking because it looked similar. The 75mm guns used on the M-05 and M-06 are derived from the 75mm PaK 40?

 

I think we may have stumbled upon a little goldmine:

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Batey_ha-Osef_Museum

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Danes to Palestine to Isreal. We know where the 75 Krupp is from. The 105 is american.

 

According to wiki, it's a standard M4 105mm howi, retrofitted into the same Shermans that were carrying the 75mm Krupp.

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I do plan on the T-13 B1 B2 and B3

The T-15 will not make it.

http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/bel/Belgium.htm

 

excellent source on the Belgian tanks. There is also mention of a A.M.C. Renault type A.C.G.1 Mle. 35 being used by Belgium with a slightly modified turret designated APX-2B.

Don't know if just a mod to the turret warrants it as a extra tank.

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Recommendations and questions coming up.

 

First off, question: Are you sure about the SO-122? It's apparently dated at 1961...

Also, I had a thought: I am under the impression that we have too many vehicles, so it would be possible to throw some of them away...

 

Medium line:

Rank 1:

  1. Compressed research LT vz 34 and 38 due to 37mm main armament:
    /1 LT vz 34,
    /2 LT vz 38 due to better mobility
  2. Compressed research Strv M/41 due to 37mm main armament:
    /1 Strv M/41 S1
    /2 Strv M/42 S2
  3. Recommend Skoda T-23 instead of T-21, due to T-21 presence in light tank line at rank 2 and recommend putting it above the LT's due to 47mm main armament. [url=http://ftr.wot-news.com/2013/06/15/skoda-t-21-t-22-and-t-23m/](Source, unverified)[/url]
  4. Compressed research Vanatorul de Care R-35 and AMR-35 APX-2B reasoning below:
    /1 Vanatorul de Care R-35
    /2 AMR-35 APX-2B
    I must explain myself: This is purely for balance and gameplay. There are just too many vehicles for non-compressed research, and that would slow the research in low tiers down immensely. The two vehicles display similar gun performance and are similar in most aspects (R-35 a bit more armoured, ACG-1 seems to be more mobile).
  5. Compressed research Turán I and II
    /1 40M Turán I - armed with a 40mm gun, won't steal the show
    /2 41M Turán II - ared with a 75mm L/25 gun (couldn't find penetration data, recommend we use L/24 penetration data)

Compressed research second elements are bypassable at all stages.

I left out the Panzerwagen 39 due to lack of information regarding the gun and the vehicle as a whole.

 

Rank 2:

  1. Strv M/42 due to 75mm L/34 main armament which, according to [url=http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/swe/Swedish.htm]this source,[/url] was performing similarly to the German L/24 (recommend slight penetration increase)
  2. 43M Turán III armed with an L/43 main gun.
  3. Pvkv IV "Värjan"

Positions can be still re-arranged

Recommend reclassifying 75mm Krupp Sherman and 105 Sherman as SPG

 

Rank 3:

  1. Compressed research 44M Tas:
    /1 44M Tas armed with a 43M main gun
    /2 44M Tas armed with a KwK42 main gun
    (note: the two guns are essentially the same, the 43M was the Hungarian-built version of the KwK42)

 

More to follow, post will be edited

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Recommendations and questions coming up.

 

First off, question: Are you sure about the SO-122? It's apparently dated at 1961...

Also, I had a thought: I am under the impression that we have too many vehicles, so it would be possible to throw some of them away...

 

Medium line:

Rank 1:

  1. Compressed research LT vz 34 and 38 due to 37mm main armament:
    /1 LT vz 34,
    /2 LT vz 38 due to better mobility
  2. Compressed research Strv M/41 due to 37mm main armament:
    /1 Strv M/41 S1
    /2 Strv M/42 S2
  3. Recommend Skoda T-23 instead of T-21, due to T-21 presence in light tank line at rank 2 and recommend putting it above the LT's due to 47mm main armament. (Source, unverified)
  4. Compressed research Vanatorul de Care R-35 and AMR-35 APX-2B reasoning below:
    /1 Vanatorul de Care R-35
    /2 AMR-35 APX-2B
    I must explain myself: This is purely for balance and gameplay. There are just too many vehicles for non-compressed research, and that would slow the research in low tiers down immensely. The two vehicles display similar gun performance and are similar in most aspects (R-35 a bit more armoured, ACG-1 seems to be more mobile).
  5. Compressed research Turán I and II
    /1 40M Turán I - armed with a 40mm gun, won't steal the show
    /2 41M Turán II - ared with a 75mm L/25 gun (couldn't find penetration data, recommend we use L/24 penetration data)

Compressed research second elements are bypassable at all stages.

I left out the Panzerwagen 39 due to lack of information regarding the gun and the vehicle as a whole.

 

Rank 2:

  1. Strv M/42 due to 75mm L/34 main armament which, according to this source, was performing similarly to the German L/24 (recommend slight penetration increase)
  2. 43M Turán III armed with an L/43 main gun.
  3. Pvkv IV "Värjan"

Positions can be still re-arranged

Recommend reclassifying 75mm Krupp Sherman and 105 Sherman as SPG

 

Rank 3:

  1. Compressed research 44M Tas:
    /1 44M Tas armed with a 43M main gun
    /2 44M Tas armed with a KwK42 main gun
    (note: the two guns are essentially the same, the 43M was the Hungarian-built version of the KwK42)

 

More to follow, post will be edited

I shall remove the SO-122, I was under the impression it was a immediate post war vehicle, as the A-19 and M4 were both elderly in the 1960s. 

We could ask around about it. I have it on good authority that certain timeline exemptions are allowed. 

1,2,3,4 Yes

5. In my copy the Turan was already compressed, it seems the joint was not. 

 

Era 2

1. Yes, but it is no match for the T-34, recommend low battle ranking. early tiering

2. Why not. Compress with the other 2 and up the battle rating like for the spitfire Mk.5?

3. Yes

The Shermans should stay, as they are turreted and can be used well up close with enemy tanks. T

Besides, if the Turans go together having only 2 *squares* of tier 2 mediums could look small. The 2 Shermans help there. 

 

Rank 3

Sure. I'll also go move the Types down to bottom.

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Okay, I shall go against my own self now:

 

I think the 44M Tas should be sent back to heavy line due to

a) Lack of heavy tanks along the line

b) 120mm of sloped frontal armour

c) Potent gun

 

This would also put the 85mm-armed Type 58's forward.

 

 

I shall remove the SO-122, I was under the impression it was a immediate post war vehicle, as the A-19 and M4 were both elderly in the 1960s. 

We could ask around about it. I have it on good authority that certain timeline exemptions are allowed. 

1,2,3,4 Yes

5. In my copy the Turan was already compressed, it seems the joint was not. 

 

Era 2

1. Yes, but it is no match for the T-34, recommend low battle ranking. early tiering

2. Why not. Compress with the other 2 and up the battle rating like for the spitfire Mk.5?

3. Yes

The Shermans should stay, as they are turreted and can be used well up close with enemy tanks. T

Besides, if the Turans go together having only 2 *squares* of tier 2 mediums could look small. The 2 Shermans help there. 

 

Rank 3

Sure. I'll also go move the Types down to bottom.

 

If Gaijin answers positively, we may keep the SO-122 still.

 

Rank 2:

2, no, the Turán I and II have really no place in rank 2. Squeezing the Strv M/42  was already one that I only did because of lack of rank 2 meds. But maybe we should push the M/42 down regardless.

 

The Shermans lack AP ammo, as they are both armed with field guns. The 75mm Krupp loses out on calibre length alone (L/30). The 105 Sherman could run around with HEAT, but it's still a howitzer...

 

Okay, so to finish up my post:

 

Rank 3:

  • 44M Tas's reclassified as heavy tanks
  1. M-624 (Sherman tank with the T-34/85's gun and engine - to be clarified)
  2. Compressed research Type 58
    /1 Type 58
    /2 Type 58-1
    /3 Type 58-2
  3. T-34/85CZ
  4. Teski Tenk Vozilo A (Yugoslavian T-34/85 variant with new turret)
  5. Compressed research Strv 'Lansen' (to be determined):
    /1 75mm-armed variant
    /2 105mm-armed variant (if within cutoff date)

Rank 4:

  1. Teski Tenk Vozilo B, same as the Vozilo A, but carries a 90mm M3A1 gun.
  2. M-50 Sherman, carries a similar gun to that of the Panther
  3. M4A4 Sherman FL-10, An M4A4 hull with an oscillating turret carrying a gun similar to that of the Panther and an autoloader.

 

Note: It has just occured to me that we can have split research lines within tank classes. That would solve some problems.

Edited by piritskenyer
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Are you still looking for additional vehicles to be added into the list?
 
Sweden
(P) Pvkv IV "Värjan" (1949)
Using the Strv  m/38, and Strv m/40 chasis to make these 57mm Tank Destroyers
 
eff56789ea74c7a9a744991354d4c387.jpg
 
 
 
(P)SAU / SAV 120(1947)
 
Based on m/41, 120mm assault gun that was saw an attempt to combine an autoloader to the naval gun. It was too costly so the prototype was scraped, but the tech was allegedly later used in development of the Strv 103.
c7ce48a8baf910bd92ace1fc6380f6cc.png

 

 

 

Landsverk L-60 series (1937-1944)

 

 

300px-Stridsvagn_m40K_H%C3%A4ssleholm_31

(Strv m/40K)

 

 

 

EDIT: I know the Swiss had a postwar JagdPanzer 38(t) called the G-13, I think they did some minor modifications to them but I have no idea what they did, does anyone have any info on them?

 

 

Do you have any more sources on the Pvkv IV? I have found references saying it is the Pvkv II, but all they seem to have in common is that they both state "57mm gun". I can't even find penetration data for that 57mm...

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