PanzerAce

International Tank Tech Tree-Let's Build It

They need to be nations that were involved in WW2. Otherwise game won't make a shred of sense.

"wont make a shred of sense" >F86 fighting ME-262's, MiG-15's fighting 163's etc your argument is invalid

 

also strv m/42 isnt really a medium tank unless its gonna be rank 1

Edited by Roebuck34
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BTW

Panzer 35T & 38T were German designations, original Czechoslovakian was LT vz. 35 & 38.

It matters because the German ones would fit more to a Germany tree, while the original ones side with Alies.

 

Still duno how to match them to RB, even with Faction designation for each individual vehicle, some of those nation were neutral! (diplomaticaly asigning them to Alies?)

Do this bad & u make a lots of enemies. (or Gajin will)

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It is really simple. 

 

Countries, depending whether allied with Germany or Russia (or occupied by them) or the allies at the time, will be matched with that "real country".

 

Neutral countries will be mish-matched I guess. Even Israel (M50 Isherman) has a side, closer to USA and GB (allies) 

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Recommend reranking 43M Turán III as rank 2 (over Strv M42), due to L/48 armament.
Recommend reclassifying 44M Tas as medium, due to moderate amount of armour and medium tank gun (L/70).
Recommend reranking S-35 45mm as rank 1 due to insufficient armament.
Recommend reranking Stridsvagn M41 as rank 1 due to insufficient armament.
Recommend in-rank repositioning of T-6M41 Nahuel under Strv M42 due to inferior armament or reclassifying and reranking T-6M41 as rank 1 heavy tank.
More research to follow in daytime.
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Are you still looking for additional vehicles to be added into the list?
 
Sweden
(P) Pvkv IV "Värjan" (1949)
Using the Strv  m/38, and Strv m/40 chasis to make these 57mm Tank Destroyers
 
eff56789ea74c7a9a744991354d4c387.jpg
 
 
 
(P)SAU / SAV 120(1947)
 
Based on m/41, 120mm assault gun that was saw an attempt to combine an autoloader to the naval gun. It was too costly so the prototype was scraped, but the tech was allegedly later used in development of the Strv 103.
c7ce48a8baf910bd92ace1fc6380f6cc.png

 

 

 

Landsverk L-60 series (1937-1944)

 

 

  • L-60 S/I (Strv m/38) - 15 ordered in 1937 and delivered in 1939.
  • L-60 S/II (Strv m/39) - 20 ordered in 1939 and delivered in 1940.
  • L-60 S/III (Strv m/40L) - 100 ordered in 1940 and delivered in 1941.
  • L-60 S/IV
  • L-60 S/V (Strv m/40K) - 80 ordered in 1942 and delivered in 1944 by Karlstads Mekaniska Verkstad

 

 

 

300px-Stridsvagn_m40K_H%C3%A4ssleholm_31

(Strv m/40K)

 

 

 

EDIT: I know the Swiss had a postwar JagdPanzer 38(t) called the G-13, I think they did some minor modifications to them but I have no idea what they did, does anyone have any info on them?

Edited by EndlesNights
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Recommend reranking 43M Turán III as rank 2 (over Strv M42), due to L/48 armament. Done
Recommend reclassifying 44M Tas as medium, due to moderate amount of armour and medium tank gun (L/70). Done
Recommend reranking S-35 45mm as rank 1 due to insufficient armament.Done
Recommend reranking Stridsvagn M41 as rank 1 due to insufficient armament. Done
Recommend in-rank repositioning of T-6M41 Nahuel under Strv M42 due to inferior armament or reclassifying and reranking T-6M41 as rank 1 heavy tank.
More research to follow in daytime. DONE

 

I am hesitant to classify it as a rank 1 heavy, although it does have a fair bit of armor coupled with a bad gun. It has 80mm sloped back okay and a 75mm main gun. The ability of it being flanked is also debatable, with a 24mph top speed. However, I think I will do it, as the heavy line looks VERY weak with only 2 tanks in it. 

 

Version 3 Now Posted

Edited by PanzerAce
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Israeli M-1 Sherman, converted from a mix of different Sherman variants primarily the M4A1, M4A3E8 and M4A4. These tanks would latter be converted in the M-50s Super Shermans.

For the most part this are just slightly modified M4A3E8s.

 

M1Sherman67_zps050831a6.jpg

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With the new model I recomend you place the Romanian Tank Destoryers like that:

TACAM T-60(era 2)
TACAM R-2(era 2)
Mareșal M-05(era 2)
Mareșal M-06(era 3 or permium)

As the TACAM R2 is better then the T-60 and as the Mareșal has better armor and better gun and lower profile.
And put the R-35 Vânător de Care as a tank at era 2.
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Linx, can you provide some info on the vehicles you posted? Found very little english info on them.

EDIT:

Recommend reclassifying and reranking of Somua 6-pounder as low rank 2 premium due to moderate amount of armour but decent penetrating gun. Edited by piritskenyer
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I will when I get to my PC I have found a great E-book that says everything about the Romanian Army and it's equipment when I get back I will take pics of the specifications and copy some info.
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I will when I get to my PC I have found a great E-book that says everything about the Romanian Army and it's equipment when I get back I will take pics of the specifications and copy some info.

 

Okay. I can get some translation done on the Hungarian stuff if needed, can't provide any ETA though.

 

However, daytime is here, and now I have access to a computer, so here goes

 

Recommendations regarding the tree:

 

Armoured cars:

 

Recommended placement of rank 1 armoured cars based on armour-piercing capacity, (suspected) mobility and protection is as follows:

  1. Landsverk L-180 armoured car, armed with a Madsen 20mm cannon, with 25mm's of penetration at 100m and only 8mm's at 1000m at a 70° angle (data from [url=http://www.panzercentral.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=10444]here[/url]). Lowest penetration-mobility-protection mix.
  2. Pansarbil m/39: same armament as the L180, but seems more mobile and has a feeling of being purpose built to it.
  3. Landswerk L-182: Version predominantly used by the Finnish, armed with a Lahti L-39 20mm AT-rifle, penetration of 30mm's at 100m and 25mm's at 300m at 90° angle [url=http://world.guns.ru/atr/fi/lahti-l-39-e.html](source)[/url]

Recommend placing following vehicles at rank 2:

  1. ADGZ due to 20mm KwK 35 L/45 (penetration research ineffective).
  2. 39M Csaba due to the Solothurn S18/1000 main armament with penetration of 40mm's at 100m and 35mm's at 500m at 90° angle [url=http://world.guns.ru/atr/switch/solothurn-s1-100-1000-e.html](source)[/url]. Good mobility but piss-poor armour.
  3. Landsverk L-181: Version armed with a 37mm Bofors gun with penetration of 55mm's at 100m, 44mm's at 500m and 33mm's at 1000m at 70° impact angle [url=http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/AT_GUNS1.htm](source)[/url].
  4. DAF M39 due to the same bofors cannon as the L-181, but angled hull panels.

Notes:

  • Landsverk L-185 seems insufficiently armed for rank 2 (same armament as L-180), would recommend putting it in as compressed research with L-180, possibly even before it (recommend putting it to reserve). Further note: L-185 appears to have inferior mobility to the 180, 181 and 182; and was phased out before the other three.
  • Request clarification on "PA-IV"
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Light tanks:

 

Reserve:

 

  • Recommend use of 38M Toldi I (A20) instead of TKS due to the use of turret and 20mm Solothurn main armament (see penetration above). Recommend using TKS-D a start of TD line.

Rank 1:

  1. 42M Toldi II (B20), same as the Toldi I but with slightly thicker armour.
  2. 7TP Armed with 37mm Bofors gun (see penetration above).
  3. Strv M/31 due to 37mm Bofors armament.
  4. Straussler V-4 due to 40mm gun armament (see below), but lacking armour (even for a light tank).

Rank 2:

  1. Compressed research: Toldi IIa and Toldi III (B40 and C40)
    /1 42M Toldi IIa (B40), same as the B2 but with a 40mm gun. Research was inconclusive regarding the gun the Hungarian sources state (36 or 37M L/25), so I decided to go with the penetration data of the 40M gun (a PaK36 rebarreled and rechambered for the 40mm Bofors ammo) with a calibre length of L/51. Penetration seems to be 48mm's at 100m (impact angle undetermined), working on acquiring more accurate information at this time.
    /2 43M Toldi III (C40) is an uparmoured Toldi IIa. Recommend compressed research.
  2. Compressed research: Verdeja 1 and 2
    /1 Verdeja 1 due to (Soviet-origin) 45mm armament with penetration of 43mm's at 100m, 31mm's at 500m and 28mm's at 1000m at 60° impact angle [url=http://english.battlefield.ru/45mm-tank-gun.html](source)[/url].
    /2 Verdeja 2 same 45mm armament, but is heavier, so I assume it is better armoured.
    Note: Verdeja 75mm may be used as an assault howitzer.
  3. Skoda T-21 armed with the 47mm kanon P.U.V. vz. 36 with penetration of 60mm's at 1200m at 90° angle (no reliable source found) would/could be a nice flanker light.
    Note: PzJg I combat reports seem to indicate ~50mm's of armour piercing capacity at 500m, no angle provided.

Note:

  • I'm kinda lost when it comes to Strv M/38, 39, 40L and 40K (evaluation and recommendation not yet possible), request help from a Swedish speaker. Roebuck?

 

Further research to follow.

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It is really simple. 

 

Countries, depending whether allied with Germany or Russia (or occupied by them) or the allies at the time, will be matched with that "real country".

 

Neutral countries will be mish-matched I guess. Even Israel (M50 Isherman) has a side, closer to USA and GB (allies) 

It is not.

You will get lynched for asigning tanks with Czechoslovakian markings to Axis.

Some those tanks were captured by wermacht and operated by Germans (repainted with war cross & grey), in this case they would more fit to a German tree.

 

original:

254px-Lt-38_lesany.jpg

 

captured:

220px-Panzer_38%28t%29_Ausf._S.jpg

 

If both are in WT, they should stand on the opposite side.

Edited by warmachine
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It is not.
You will get lynched for asigning tanks with Czechoslovakian markings to Axis.
Some those tanks were captured by wermacht and operated by Germans (repainted with war cross & grey), in this case they would more fit to a German tree.

original:
254px-Lt-38_lesany.jpg

captured:
220px-Panzer_38%28t%29_Ausf._S.jpg

If both are in WT, they should stand on the opposite side.


It depends vehicle by vehicle, and if designed under occupation or not. The LT-38 should be matched with the UK.
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It depends vehicle by vehicle, and if designed under occupation or not. The LT-38 should be matched with the UK.

They should be asigned to Nation tree they were OPERATED BY.

 

Well it already happen, jgpz 38(t) "hetzer" is in official German release tree while it was designed in Czechoslovakia too.

Will it make sense for Sherman Firefly to be in the US tree?

 

Yes it was modified, but changing the markings & camo is technically a modification too.

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They should be asigned to Nation tree they were OPERATED BY.

Well it already happen, jgpz 38(t) "hetzer" is in official German release tree while it was designed in Czechoslovakia too.
Will it make sense for Sherman Firefly to be in the US tree?

Yes it was modified, but changing the markings & camo is technically a modification too.


We could also try going off of who the vehicle was originally intended for. Example: LT vz. 38 was intended for use by the Czechoslovak Army, while the Pz 38(t) Ausf. G was a development implemented in German use, following the needs of the German Army. Or take the JgPz 38(t) which was purpose built for the Germans. Same with the Sherman Firefly: purpose built for the Brits (mind you the M4A4 was never intended for US service, but that's yet another story), while other type of M4's are probably going to end up in the US tree.
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