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I need YOUR Edits for this future suggestion for Artillery


Do you like this idea?  

49 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you support this system over the one currently in the CBT.

    • Yes, I prefer it. (Explain why below please)
      17
    • No, I prefer the current system. (Explain why below please)
      9
    • I have a different idea than the current system or this. (Comment below please)
      12
    • I would like the WoT way.
      11
  2. 2. Should Ground Forces have played-controlled Artillery (Player Driven)

    • Yes, I would like them.
      30
    • No, no arty at all, bombs are enough.
      11
    • Just player-called-in like in the CBT.
      8


Hello All,

 

I plan to put this in as a suggestion. I was wondering if you had thoughts, comments or edits to be made on it before I send it. Many minds are better than just one on a large proposal like this one. Here it is.

 

"A Better Way to Implement Artillery

 

Reference Links:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbaUaDVOZDI

http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/47876-artillery-aim-satellite-view/

 

In my opinion, there is a better way to implement artillery than the current way it is done in the War Thunder closed beta. In the following discussion, I will highlight a simple way to modify in-game mechanics to create a simple, realistic and balanced artillery mode for all to enjoy, without possibility of abuse by tank players.

First off, here are some issues and bonuses with the current system.

Issues  

·         Tanker/Scouting Abuse. Once you unlock the era 4 upgrade of artillery call ins, you can scout the map all around you, seeing behind rocks and off in the distance, something normal tankers could not have access to. This makes it hard and unrealistic for other tanks, as they have an eye in the sky that can see (and therefore react to and prevent) any flanking maneuver they ever try.

 

·         Not player controlled. This may seem like a small issue, but one thing the other game does if increase variety and game play by having it. I have never played the other game, but I have watched videos in preparation for Ground Forces. Having direct-support arty would be meaningless, as any Stug can do what a Bison could try to do in direct-fire mode while doing it better.

Positives  

·         The "limited satellite" camera mode is a good balance of realistic and game play, it was well implemented, aside from the issues I have listed above.

·         Accuracy and wait time are balanced as well, a good player can get out of the way unless tracked or hit in the engine.  

 

Proposal  

There is a way to keep the positives of the current system while opening up arty as a playable unit in War Thunder: Ground Forces. It goes as follows.

Aiming  

There would be two main ways to aim. First off: Reconnaissance aircraft.

First Option, Reconnaissance Aircraft  

From their position in the sky, he could activate a view identical to the "Bomb view" currently in place for level bombers. Depending on range, the aiming circle would have the "X" of varying size, at maximum range it would be the simple circle, at ranges beyond that his circle would go red and say "Out of range". Spotting would be manual and there would be no red name unless a ground unit has "identified" that target. A Blue halo could perhaps surround the target in question in AB if it was a friendly. He could traverse his tank, fire and wait for the shell to arrive.

Balance: A high-flying aircraft will make it hard to spot tanks on the ground. Also, to hit such small shapes with a delay is quite difficult. If the aircraft were to come to lower altitude, he could become prey for Flack or fighters, a maneuvering bomber makes the bomb sight wobble all over, can you imagine the difficulty of aiming your arty though that?

shot%202014.01.11%2009.30.02.jpg

 

Gameplay  

A Bishop self propelled gun enters a Ground Forces game. Knowing he has a range of over 12 Kilometers, he can position himself near his base in a good spot with fields of fire. He selects an ammo and  presses the a button showing a plane on the bottom of his screen. Meanwhile, a Mosquito PR takes off to go scout for enemy ground forces. 

shot%202014.01.11%2009.30.31.jpg

The Bishop, presses the [ and ] keys, scrolls though any Reconnaissance aircraft currently in the air. Excitedly, he sees that the Mosquito PR is over a Vehicle. 

Looking around, he spots the truck (Bear in mind that there is no icon).

(Again, there is no red dot, he had to spot it with his eyes UNLESS it is also spotted by a tank crew. ) He switches to his arty aim. Using his mouse, starting from right below the aircraft, he goes left to right, aiming his gun. The position of the camera never changes, as he moves left or right to aim he is changing the angle of viewing from the aircraft. The view he is looking from is a small circle, just like the bomber view below.

 

shot%202014.01.11%2009.39.05.jpg

But he can pan around and move the circle to other locations, His cursor, will look like the aiming reticule here, but inside the bomb view. He can move it around with his mouse, the cursor will stay at the center, it is the bomb view itself that will switch angles with the control of the mouse.shot%202014.01.11%2009.41.32.jpg

 

 

Let's say the arty hits the tank, both PR and Arty are rewarded the kill. It should give a large RP bonus for team cohesion. One could not have done it without the other.

 

Looking around, the player now notices that there are tanks engaging tanks at close range. He escapes from PR view and presses the 2nd button at the bottom of his screen, one showing a Tank.

Scrolling through the light tanks, armored cars and halftracks (The only ones that should have this proposed feature) he comes to a tank that needs help. This one is a Flackpanzer.

 Capture.PNG

 

As you can see, from directly above the flack panzer, he can target nearby units. This has advantages and disadvantages compared to airplane mode. He can get closer to the actions and see tanks better, but the aiming circle will always be larger (always the full circle) and angles become acute quickly, making difficult long-ranged shots.

Balance  

Both of these artillery strategies are not overpowered or underpowered. They are simply different ways to enjoy Ground Forces Between wobbling planes, non-spotted ground units and high altitude, the PR aiming will not make the game unplayable. The PR must stay high to avoid flack and aircraft.

The 2nd option is very similar to the one currently in the CBT, but it ELIMINATES scouting abuse by tank drives while still maintaining close arty support with your team. In this case, I would hope a RNG generator for your shot determined where it went inside the large, round circle.

If you still think this is OP, perhaps large rewards could be given for planes killing artillery tanks. PR will be rare as the aircraft must rely on a squad mate or random people to use him to get kills. Ground units can easily die and therefore cannot be used in death for arty to aim.

Conclusion  

In conclusion, I firmly believe that this is the best option for War Thunder Tanks. It eliminates "Eye in the sky" arty with angles for ground units not below you and the continuous possibility the PR will be shot down.  The tank view option eliminates exploitation by tank drives and provides another realistic way on how arty was used in WW2. Having player-controlled units in fire support would be a great step forward in ground Forces, and I hope this suggestion can be passed along to the developers. Thank you for your time. "

 

Please post comments/ideas down below. Thank you for your time. 

Edited by PanzerAce
  • Upvote 7
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very good topic, 
However , I think it would be best to do either of these two at the moment:
1- put this in the suggestion forum for the CBT testers as you get more response here. many people really do not know about them as they have not tested the current system [ me included]

2- leave this thread as-is here and put it again (or bump it up) when tanks go OBT then more people would be able to provide feedback.

Cheers and have a +1 for effort :)

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I think recon planes are good idea, but they should be able to call artillery on their own. No need for player controlled arty - it would make a huge mess, if players were totally dependent on one another. We all know how any form of cooperation looks like in WT.

 

But a player controlling recon plane and directing artillery strike on chosen location would be great fun!

Edited by Von_Drzewinsky
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TL;DR

 

 

Basicly, I think the system should use the map, a bit like in battlefield.

 

In that case, I agree completely. Instead of whack a mole mode, just pop up a map and choose which area to bombard. This is realistic enough and balanced. Then you can upgrade your artillery support cause Gaijin, like the reload time, the barrage duration, the artillery pieces used (Priest or M12 for instance), etc.

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I think to make artillery not pointless, they should make it have the ability to take out Pillboxes, and barrage runways where planes can take off. But then again; It could be a bit OP with runway barrage...  :dntknw:

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Here's an idea. There are plenty of artillery and rocket tanks, so why not implement them. Also, light tanks still should be able to call artillery, but it should be artillery players who actually strike the requested spot, and get the rewards for any kill. The arty player should have a firing cooldown, light tank should have a arty call cooldown. 

Artillery tank (Sexton)

e000762375c.jpg

Rockets sherman calliope

T-34-rocket-launcher-France.jpg

Russian rockets

RBT5.jpg

The m12 mobile gun. This is an assault fun built on a tank chassis, like the sturmtiger. 

155mm-GMC-M12-France-1944.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M12_Gun_Motor_Carriage

Edited by iamthelol
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To be honest im afraid of this artilery concept.Since it can end like in WoT(arty camping safe and undetected, 1 shooting everything with theirs doom cannons, forcing others tank to camp in safe spots).
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player driven artilery that shoots at pilboxes and stuff maybe...i hate this whole system

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honestly atm from what ive seen, arty suport isnt that bad exept that it can be used for perma UAV scauting or something. while there is nice sulutions op there, there sone simplier: fog of war on ewerything while in arty mode. or like others sayd, 2d map without any icons( well for arcade maybe some)

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I like this system better than the current one defiantly

Other Artillery/Tanks that could be added(That were not already listed)

 

Bishop

Sturmpanzer

Wespe

M7 Priest

Hummel

 

 

 

Speculation one:

Birch Gun  1yRQZ8g.png?1

(Before you say "It never existed leave it in WoT" like most of you will,   :Ps   , It did exist

 

It is open to discussion since it never saw combat.

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To be honest im afraid of this artilery concept.Since it can end like in WoT(arty camping safe and undetected, 1 shooting everything with theirs doom cannons, forcing others tank to camp in safe spots).

that's the problem of WoT, the stupid spotting system, but here is different

arty can be showed always on map, so the players will know where to go 

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They should make it simple. Any tank or plane should be able to highlight a target manually for arty(there would be cooldown to prevent abuse), giving it target's position, type (not exact, just light/medium/heavy tank, fortification or other types) and artillery would be player controlled, and would fire just like a normal gun, with added aid on sights for ballistic drop and wind. They would have map, but wouldn't be able to just magically "see" things in real time like they do in WoT.

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No arty at all, I despise arty in WOT, it ruins games and Being that we will already have aircraft and maybe ships trying to destroy tanks in the future the last thing we need is one more crosshair whore sitting 3 miles away killing us with a magic UAV.

NO ARTY, earn your kills, ban the magic UAV. Edited by SeppDeitz
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No arty at all, I despise arty in WOT, it ruins games and Being that we will already have aircraft and maybe ships trying to destroy tanks in the future the last thing we need is one more crosshair xxxx sitting 3 miles away killing us with a magic UAV.

NO ARTY, earn your kills, ban the magic UAV.

Have you played any games that have player arty out side of WoT? And have you played WoT 8.6+?

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I'm slightly warming up to the arty mechanic in War Thunder.

 

At first I was like - Gaijin, Nooooooo! - but after watching after a fair amount of CBT photage it seems it work pretty well. It's not strong enough to make tank guns unappealing but enough of a nuiscance to force you to move. In it's current form it seem to work well to flush out campers, unlike the other tank game, where it became another reason to camp hard.

 

The UAV view might be ok for arcade (hey, it's arcade...) but feels wrong for realistic battles.

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