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TANKS - HOW ARE GAIJIN GOING TO MAKE IT WORK?


The T-54 will most likely face the 10.5 CM tiger 2 and the Panther II, not the "Regular" Tiger II and Panther, please take a closer look to the preliminar tech tree.

 

Also, they are not done with Germany and the USSR yet, lets give them some time to finish them up and worry about new nations later :D

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Ok, simple solution. Germany and Japan cannot fight postwar or Korean, because they didn't anyway. The end of their line should be the end of WW2. Balancing postwar tanks with WW2 tanks is very hard because it cannot be done without some weird gimmick.

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The Pz 3 didn't fair too well against the sherman. The majority of the panzer 4s in africa were Es and earlier.

 

true. but ill tell you a little secret, the best tank killer in the African desert was an Italian tank,

 

this little beauty

semovente-75-18-self-propelled-gun-01.pn

it flung plenty of HESH against the Allies and was very good at it as well :)

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true. but ill tell you a little secret, the best tank killer in the African desert was an Italian tank,

 

this little beauty

semovente-75-18-self-propelled-gun-01.pn

it flung plenty of HESH against the Allies and was very good at it as well :)

yeah, that thing does look pretty cool. What tank is it based on?

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true. but ill tell you a little secret, the best tank killer in the African desert was an Italian tank,

 

this little beauty

semovente-75-18-self-propelled-gun-01.pn

it flung plenty of HESH against the Allies and was very good at it as well :)

 

I believe I have identified this tank: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semovente_75/18

Edited by Guest

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I believe I have identified this tank: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semovente_75/18

 

 

Bravo ..

 

basically the only tank of the Italians in WW2 that is known to some extent ARE the Semoventes.

 

The 'Carro Armato P 26/40" could make a good opposition for the Valentine and the Matildas tho .. not bad armored if placed in Era 2, good speed for a 'heavy' tank (if u can call 26 tons heavy), should have an acceptable gun (7.5cm L/34, performance probably a bit worse than the PzIV F1's gun) ..

 

I don't see why not.

 

THIS and the Semoventes would probably be the 2 tanks of the Italians that I would dare to touch and play, similar to how I only dare to play the Folgore and maybe the CR.42 at some point.

 

Unfortunately for italian tanks in this game the italians never got rid of this 'brick' design-style (germans at least got rid of this unfavorable design with the Panther and Tiger II) which makes them quite bad and unsuited for anything beyond Era 3.

 

And honestly, to the guy who said it's about having toptiers in every nation - no, it's not. If a nation, for example Japan or Italy, simply does not have tanks to fight in the Eras 4 and 5, and that's it. Then they don't get tanks in Era 4 and 5.

 

What the Japanese (and maybe also the Italians, I'm not into ships that much) don't offer with tanks they make up for with ships. Many ships. Ships, Ships and even more Ships.

 

This is where the Germans (and Soviets) are going to have much less choices to offer (apart from the bismarck most people, including me, don't know any other german ships from WW2 anyways).

 

Every Nation has their flaws somewhere. May it be sea, land or air. (well, apart from the Americans and british I guess)

 

What is going to be interesting is how they're gonna handle France. Sure, it wouldn't make much difference if french tanks / planes were there or not, but the french do have some famous tanks (Char B1, Somua S35, Renault FT-17) and it would be a shame to not see em. Also the french did have some OK ships at least, considering the british navy was advised to sink them before the germans could take them over after occupying France - but I'm not sure about planes, considering how fast Germany gained Air Supremacy over France.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semovente_75/18 this wiki article says it used HEAT, AP AND HE with only HEAT being useful against armor due to the low velocity gun (450 m/s) and therefore says the max range in indirect fire being 7-8 km due to the max gun elevation only being 22 degrees. It also had a low rate of fire due to a 3 man crew.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semovente_75/18 this wiki article says it used HEAT, AP AND HE with only HEAT being useful against armor due to the low velocity gun (450 m/s) and therefore says the max range in indirect fire being 7-8 km due to the max gun elevation only being 22 degrees. It also had a low rate of fire due to a 3 man crew.

I am Italian and i say :"I DON'T CARE!" Who don't want to play that tank not play with that tank. But Army is need for the (not very) Soon Italian tech tree
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Quick question.

 

How are Gaijin going to balance tanks for all the factions involved in WT?

 

Let me go into that comment with a bit more info, the current system will see early T54’s fighting German Tiger II’s which while squiffy I understand as the game goes from pre WW2 to Korea (1953)

 

Now there has been some debate about this, but as development of the T54 started as far back as 1945 it has every right to be implemented. This leads to another matter, the T54 is superior to the Tiger 2 in almost every aspect, Mobility, Armour and Firepower and as I loathe altering real stats to make up balanced ones (WOT) I presume/hope Gaijin will balance it based on RP/maintenance costs?

 

Then we get to the next issue, while the US, Brits and the USSR can duke it out on fair terms, it’s going to leave other nations in a heap of trouble, the Japanese for example have nothing even remotely comparable (please do not quote any WOT nonsense here please) and even their indigenous post war tanks such as the STB’s were not implemented until the mid-60’s and the Leopards for Germany are also out of the time line.

 

It gets worse for those that want a separate Italian tree; the issue remains, you have 1 good candidate and a whole lot of nuts and bolts junk that cannot compete at any level, even if you massively alter the tiers it’s still not competitive.

 

So how are Gaijin going to make this work? The Japanese Italians and Germans could use the US vehicle’s they were given, but that leaves most of the high tier list with M48’s

 

So what are they planning, by altering the tiering they will throw any historical relevance out of the window, and that’s a slippery slope, by adding paper designs the slope becomes even more greasy. Altering weapon penetration, accuracy, turret rotation and such ends up with history and reality being overlooked and if a lie is told enough it becomes the truth.

 

So how are Gaijin going to balance it so that all factions/nations can have a fun game? (I am at his point talking about RB more than AB as that’s just for fun and derping)

 

Any ideas?

 

Ed

 

Let shave a look at what the Tier IV-V might look like – for comparison (based on vehicles that fought in 1945 or later) pinch of salt required here but you get the jist

 

tigerii008cw_19a.jpg

Tiger 2, unable to pen the front of T54 at range, but still an ok tank

(8.8 cm KwK 43 L/71 - PzGr. 39/43 APCBC) @ 100M = 202mm pen

 

t543_007.jpg

But dont worry the D10 (BR-412 APHE) 100m has 160 pen at 500 meters and wont hurt the tiger II on the glacis/mantle

A41%20-%20Centurion%20Mk.13%20(a).jpg

The Centurion 5/2 to mk 13 - L7105mm - able to pen up to 300mm, but can be knocked out by the above two

vietnam2.jpg

Not as good as the T54 or Centurion, and only the M68 gun (L7) is worthwhile -

 

usmt-USMCShermanJapType94.jpg

But then we have Japan - and yes they were useing trash like this to the end ( ok ok so they were developing a few mediums, but still nothing great)

pz-destr-carro-armato-m13-40_imagesia-co

And Italy ...
 

 

 

That would be absurdly stupid. The goal for a majority of the players is to reach the end of a line of vehicles. If there are no top tier tanks for certain nations, it ruins the whole purpose. And don't come with this "Well I only want the tanks I'm interested in" because I don't care. For me, and a lot of other WT players the sole purpose of playing this game is to reach the end of a nation's tech tree. You can't just cut off a nation from the top tiers.

I thought the goal of every player was to enjoy this game and have fun... weird, I was wrong: the majority of players are interested in having their top tier tank in their garages... just "to reach the end of a nation tech tree"... and are not interested in a nice game.

Therefore, this game is useless, we need just to buy top tier tanks as fast as possible...

 

For many months I thought it was important to play a nice aviation game, that lately added even tanks, that are still in Closed Beta... and the game is still nice, and amazing.

But most of players are not interested in playing the game: they want their top tier tanks only...and it's not important if this game is probably the best F2P WW2 game... most of players are needing their top tier tanks, and they are already argueing on them...

 

What's stupid...?

 

 

EDIT

Almost forgetting: the 1940-1942 Italian tanks could fight vs British and US tanks... and they did it. And British and US tanks were destroyed by those Italian tanks, in the desert...

Edited by Cesare04_131a
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Any more info on the HESH shell, Muzzle velocity, charge, etc?

 

well it used the 75 mm Ansaldo L/18, which was a howitzer with a muzzle velocity of 425 m/s. with an effective range of 9560 meters, however the maximum elevation was limited to 22 degrees so it had a max range of little over 8 km.

about the EP (effecto Pronto, HESH) information is hard to come by, so please give me some time.

However its my guess that the HE content consists of PETN (but that is just a guess atm)

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Poor countries like italy are hoign to stuggle to get mid ot low tiers never mind top tiers ... they got some lovley planes hidden away, but as for armour.. shudders, and Japan.. its going to be wackamole with the big guns of the Allies ..

 

similar issues are going to crop up with naval units

 

Wrong:

1, Italian tanks at the beginning of war (1940) up to 1942 were similar to British tanks, with Matilda IIs sole exceptions... and Churchills  later on.

In 1943 Italians got one of the best AT gun of the war, 90/53, but: 1. just a few produced 2. badly employed. 

Pls do not forget that Italy surrendered in 1943...

 

As to Italian Navy, it was better than German, for instance....battleships like Littorio were among the best naval productions of that era (before 1943). Also, even German Navy after 1943 did not practically exist anymore.

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The T-54 will most likely face the 10.5 CM tiger 2 and the Panther II, not the "Regular" Tiger II and Panther, please take a closer look to the preliminar tech tree.

 

Also, they are not done with Germany and the USSR yet, lets give them some time to finish them up and worry about new nations later :D

I think you are wrong: both 10.5 cm Tiger II and Panther II were both prototypes... if Gaijin keeps in respecting its policy, prototypes can be added to Premiums only, that is, you'll not have them in regular Tank Tree....otherwise, we'll have another WoT.

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true. but ill tell you a little secret, the best tank killer in the African desert was an Italian tank,

 

this little beauty

semovente-75-18-self-propelled-gun-01.pn

it flung plenty of HESH against the Allies and was very good at it as well :)

 

That's true... that "beauty" destroyed many Allied tanks....

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Bravo ..

 

basically the only tank of the Italians in WW2 that is known to some extent ARE the Semoventes.

 

The 'Carro Armato P 26/40" could make a good opposition for the Valentine and the Matildas tho .. not bad armored if placed in Era 2, good speed for a 'heavy' tank (if u can call 26 tons heavy), should have an acceptable gun (7.5cm L/34, performance probably a bit worse than the PzIV F1's gun) ..

 

I don't see why not.

 

THIS and the Semoventes would probably be the 2 tanks of the Italians that I would dare to touch and play, similar to how I only dare to play the Folgore and maybe the CR.42 at some point.

 

Unfortunately for italian tanks in this game the italians never got rid of this 'brick' design-style (germans at least got rid of this unfavorable design with the Panther and Tiger II) which makes them quite bad and unsuited for anything beyond Era 3.

 

And honestly, to the guy who said it's about having toptiers in every nation - no, it's not. If a nation, for example Japan or Italy, simply does not have tanks to fight in the Eras 4 and 5, and that's it. Then they don't get tanks in Era 4 and 5.

 

What the Japanese (and maybe also the Italians, I'm not into ships that much) don't offer with tanks they make up for with ships. Many ships. Ships, Ships and even more Ships.

 

This is where the Germans (and Soviets) are going to have much less choices to offer (apart from the bismarck most people, including me, don't know any other german ships from WW2 anyways).

 

Every Nation has their flaws somewhere. May it be sea, land or air. (well, apart from the Americans and british I guess)

 

What is going to be interesting is how they're gonna handle France. Sure, it wouldn't make much difference if french tanks / planes were there or not, but the french do have some famous tanks (Char B1, Somua S35, Renault FT-17) and it would be a shame to not see em. Also the french did have some OK ships at least, considering the british navy was advised to sink them before the germans could take them over after occupying France - but I'm not sure about planes, considering how fast Germany gained Air Supremacy over France.

 

"Semoventi" are 7, not considering  the Semovente M43 da 149/40 (artillery):

1. Semovente M40 da 75/18

2. Semovente M41 da 75/18

3. Semovente M42 da 75/18

4. Semovente M42 da 75/34

5. Semovente M43 da 75/46

6. Semovente M41 da 90/53

7. Semovente M43 da 105/25

 

While tanks were 5:

1. Fiat Ansaldo M11/39

2. Fiat Ansaldo M13/40

3. Fiat Ansaldo M14/41

4. Fiat Ansaldo M15/42

5. Fiat Ansaldo P40 (also known as P26)

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well it used the 75 mm Ansaldo L/18, which was a howitzer with a muzzle velocity of 425 m/s. with an effective range of 9560 meters, however the maximum elevation was limited to 22 degrees so it had a max range of little over 8 km.

about the EP (effecto Pronto, HESH) information is hard to come by, so please give me some time.

However its my guess that the HE content consists of PETN (but that is just a guess atm)

 

75mm Ansaldo 75/18 M34 L / 18

AP ( Armor Piercing )

Weight      Velocity      100 m              500 m             1000 m            1500 m           2000 m

 6.3 kg      400 m/s        59 / -- mm     48 / -- mm        37 / -- mm        29 / -- mm      22 / -- mm

 

Effetto Pronto ( High Explosive Anti-Tank )

Weight     Velocity       100 m             500 m             1000 m             1500 m           2000 m

4.2 kg      280 m/s         70 / -- mm     70 / -- mm       70 / -- mm          -- / -- mm        -- / -- mm

 

 

The following list are the weapons issued the E.P. rounds, the unit of fire (UNFOC)(quality) per gun and the percetage of E.P. carried in the basic load (usually). Often loads were changed accordingly with mission...:

 

47/32 UNFOC - 250 - 1/3 ordinarie (HE), 1/3 AP, 1/3 E.P.

65/17 UNFOC - 250 - 2/3 ordinarie, 1/3 E.P.

75/13 e 75/18-34 UNFOC - 250 - 9/10 ordinarie, 1/10 E.P.

75/18-35 UNFOC - 250 - 1/3 ordinarie, 1/3 AP, 1/3 E.P.

75/18 UNFOC - 250 - 3/4 ordinarie, 1/4 E.P.

75/27-06. 11 e 12 UNFOC - 250 - 3/4 ordinarie, 1/4 E.P.

75/32 UNFOC - 250 - 1/3 granate (shrap), 1/3 APi, 1/3 E.P.

100/17 mod. 14 e 16 UNFOC - 250 - 1/2 ordinarie, 1/4 E.P. 1/4 a d.e.

Edited by Cesare04_131a
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hgov.jpg

 

 

Semovente M41 da 90/53:

 

Armor Piercing

Weight               Velocity           100 m             500 m           1000 m             1500 m               2000 m

11.25 kg             830 m/s           126 / -- mm    109 / -- mm    90 / -- mm        75 / -- mm            62 / -- mm

Effetto Pronto ( High Explosive Anti-Tank )

Weight               Velocity           100 m             500 m            1000 m             1500 m               2000 m

10.5 kg              773 m/s            206 / -- mm     206 / -- mm    206 / -- mm     206 / -- mm           206 / -- mm

Edited by Cesare04_131a
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I think you are wrong: both 10.5 cm Tiger II and Panther II were both prototypes... if Gaijin keeps in respecting its policy, prototypes can be added to Premiums only, that is, you'll not have them in regular Tank Tree....otherwise, we'll have another WoT.


Um, they have already added some prototypes to the main trees, so unfortunately that policy is already gone.

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Which prototypes?

XP-55 or how it is called in the american tree. XP-38. XF5F-1. /sorry, misunderstood it, they're not in the mainline^^

 

(and can you use next time please the multiquote function?^^)

 

Edit:

Effetto Pronto ( High Explosive Anti-Tank )

 

So it's a HEAT, not a HESH?

Edited by Wenin
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So it's a HEAT, not a HESH?

 

By name so far. If the explosive gets squashed and gets concentrated on the tip of the shell before detonation, it's HESH. If it's a concentrated blast (not explosive) at the tip of the shell, then it's HEAT.

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