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Typhoon 1b/late

Seems in 1.37 is doesn't have WEP as apparently the plane itself didn't wondered if anyone can confirm this as it seems odd. 

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I don't get it, I thought the late Typhoon would have the same Napier Sabre IIb engine the first Tempests had, which shouldhave WEP?

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Thanks to raise up the problem, I tought I was the only one being worried about it ! The only answer we got for that modification was that It was modeled with the "Sabre IIC" engine that didn't supported the WEP.

Frankly that Sabre IIC engine allways confused me, It seems to pop up here and there in forum conversations but I was never able to find any Data sheet about its performance  :dntknw:

 

From "Flight" 27th June 1958, article Napier Aero-engines

 

 

Sabre II: Production version for Hawker Typhoon. Maximum power 2,200 h.p. at 3,700 r.p.m. Weight, 2,360 lb.

 

Sabre IIA: Position of sparking plugs changed. Extensive production.

 

Sabre IIB: Up-rated to 2,400 h.p. for take-off.

 

Sabre IIC: Some engines of this designation were installed in Tempest TT.Vs. ??

 

 

From Aircraft Engines of the World 1954 ( can be found on http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/ under engine tab )

 

Sabre IIC : Similar to Sabre VII, but with supercharger ratios 4.73:1 and 6.26:1 and S.U. AQV type updraft carburetor. 2065 h.p./3850 r.p.m/take-off.

 

If you check on http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/ at the bottom to the production list of Typhoon, even the last batch of production of Typhoon got the Sabre IIB, and If the skin of the Typhoon IB/L we have in the game is any representative of what engine should be used, MN454 is from the fifth batch which surely didnt have anything else than a Sabre IIB engine... "All aircraft with sliding hood, whip aerial, faired cannon and Sabre II, most with four blade propeller. Delivered between December 8th 1943 and June 6th 1944."  No description of the engine but, the fourth and sixth batch got the sabre IIB... ( edit : correcting, the fourth batch got the sabre IIA but got modified in 1944 and to use IIB )

 

It just sounds counter productive, to add an engine less powerfull and without wep, while many modifications got implemented to improve its performance all along its production time ?

 

For me, there is something wrong... 

Edited by FuryMkI
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Thanks to raise up the problem, I tought I was the only one being worried about it ! The only answer we got for that modification was that It was modeled with the "Sabre IIC" engine that didn't supported the WEP.

Frankly that Sabre IIC engine allways confused me, It seems to pop up here and there in forum conversations but I was never able to find any Data sheet about its performance  :dntknw:

 

From "Flight" 27th June 1958, article Napier Aero-engines

 

 

Sabre II: Production version for Hawker Typhoon. Maximum power 2,200 h.p. at 3,700 r.p.m. Weight, 2,360 lb.

 

Sabre IIA: Position of sparking plugs changed. Extensive production.

 

Sabre IIB: Up-rated to 2,400 h.p. for take-off.

 

Sabre IIC: Some engines of this designation were installed in Tempest TT.Vs. ??

 

 

From Aircraft Engines of the World 1954 ( can be found on http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/ under engine tab )

 

Sabre IIC : Similar to Sabre VII, but with supercharger ratios 4.73:1 and 6.26:1 and S.U. AQV type updraft carburetor. 2065 h.p./3850 r.p.m/take-off.

 

If you check on http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/ at the bottom to the production list of Typhoon, even the last batch of production of Typhoon got the Sabre IIB, and If the skin of the Typhoon IB/L we have in the game is any representative of what engine should be used, MN454 is from the fifth batch which surely didnt have anything else than a Sabre IIB engine... "All aircraft with sliding hood, whip aerial, faired cannon and Sabre II, most with four blade propeller. Delivered between December 8th 1943 and June 6th 1944."  No description of the engine but, the fourth and sixth batch got the sabre IIB... ( edit : correcting, the fourth batch got the sabre IIA but got modified in 1944 and to use IIB )

 

It just sounds counter productive, to add an engine less powerfull and without wep, while many modifications got implemented to improve its performance all along its production time ?

 

For me, there is something wrong... 

 

the 1B/L with the IIB is too good for era 3, I think that is why, yet real strange and wrong from the FM team to do so. they aim historical accuracy dont they? the IIB was the more used engine, why look for rare variants?

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The Typhoon MK1b/L is going to era III? That's nonsense!

 

It's a 1944 plane. It should be in era IV with the rest.

 

As for WEP, it doesn't really matter if they decide to call the combat power WEP or no. It didn't have any sort of "injection", you just pushed it to a higher rating (combat power) which could be maintained for a limited time, so you can call this WEP or you can call it 100% (in which case it won't be able to fly at 100% indefinitely).

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The Typhoon MK1b/L is going to era III? That's nonsense!

 

It's a 1944 plane. It should be in era IV with the rest.

 

As for WEP, it doesn't really matter if they decide to call the combat power WEP or no. It didn't have any sort of "injection", you just pushed it to a higher rating (combat power) which could be maintained for a limited time, so you can call this WEP or you can call it 100% (in which case it won't be able to fly at 100% indefinitely).

 

WEP is a higher boost in the case of the sabre engine. the thing is that they are modeling the plane with as a rare varient that used the IIC engine (that apparently had no WEP), but most 1B/L had the IIB, that had more power at WEP.

odd decision.

 

yes its a 44 plane but it wasnt a fighter by 44, it was a ground attack plane, so I see no point in putting it a against other fighters of 44. it wasnt an air superiority fighter, why should it face air superiority fighters?

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so how do we tell them that they put the wrong engine in?

Edited by Quilvy
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yes its a 44 plane but it wasnt a fighter by 44, it was a ground attack plane, 

And a bloody good one. But still, there were fighter suadrons escorting "Bombphoons" as they were called. Even though I hear most Tiffies had rockets by that time.

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The Typhoon MK1b/L is going to era III? That's nonsense!

 

It's a 1944 plane. It should be in era IV with the rest.

 

As for WEP, it doesn't really matter if they decide to call the combat power WEP or no. It didn't have any sort of "injection", you just pushed it to a higher rating (combat power) which could be maintained for a limited time, so you can call this WEP or you can call it 100% (in which case it won't be able to fly at 100% indefinitely).

 

 

Not by the model (on the skin) is they used it's a late 1943/early 1944 plane (by entry of the first ones delivered). It's MN454, which is from the fifth production batch -

 

 

Typhoon Production

 

  • All Typhoon production was centered on Gloster Aircraft Company Ltd., Brockworth, Gloscester. However, a single production batch of 15 aircraft was produced by Hawker at Langley, being intended as trials aircraft, some were however delivered to the RAF. R8198 to R8231. R8198 first flight 26-11-41. Mk1a and Mk1b.

     

  • First batch of 250 Mk 1a and 1b. R7576-R7599, R7613-R7655, R7672-R7721, R7738-R7775, R7792-7829, R7845-R7890 and R7913-R7923. Delivered between September 1941 and June 1942.

     

  • Second batch of 250 Mk 1a and 1b. R8630-R8663, R8680-R8722, R8737-R8781, R8799-R8845, R8861-R8900, R8923-8947 and R8966-R8981. Delivered between June 1942 and September 1942.

     

  • Third batch of 700 Mk1b. 300 aircraft DN241-DN278, DN293-DN341, DN356-DN389, DN404-DN453, DN467-DN513, DN529-DN562 and DN576-DN623. 400 aircraft EJ900-EJ934, EJ946-EJ995, EK112-EK154, EK167-EK197, EK208-EK252, EK266-EK301, EK321-EK348, EK364-EK413, EK425-EK456, EK472-EK512 and EK535-EK543. Delivered between September 20th 1942 and May 5th 1943.

     

  • Fourth batch of 600 Mk1b. JP361-JP408, JP425-JP447, JP480-JP516, JP532-JP552, JP576-JP614, JP648-JP689, JP723-JP756, JP784-JP802, JP836-JP861, JP897-JP941, JP961-JP976, JR125-JR152, JR183-JR223, JR237-JR266, JR289-JR338, JR360-JR392, JR426-JR449 and JR492-JR535. Napier Sabre IIa from new, many aircraft modified with Sabre IIb engines in 1944. Later aircraft featured sliding hood from new, majority of earlier aircraft retrospectively modified. Delivered between April 5th 1943 and December 7th 1943.

     

  • Fifth batch of 800 aircraft. MM951-MM995, MN113-MN156, MN169-MN213, MN229-MN269, MN282-MN325, MN339-MN381, MN396-MN436, MN449-MN496, MN513-MN556, MN569-MN608, MN623-MN667, MN680-MN720, MN735-MN779, MN791-MN823, MN851-MN896, MN920-MN956, MN968-MN999, MP113-MP158 and MP172-MP203. All aircraft with sliding hood, whip aerial, faired cannon and Sabre II, most with four blade propeller. Delivered between December 8th 1943 and June 6th 1944.

     

  • Sixth batch of 400 aircraft. PD446-PD480, PD492-PD536, PD548-PD577, PD589-PD623, RB192-RB235, RB248-RB289, RB303-RB347, RB361-RB408, RB423-RB459 and RB474-RB512. All aircraft with sliding hood, whip aerial, faired cannon, exhaust shrouds and four blade propeller, most aircraft with Napier Sabre IIa engine but a few among the final 255 were powered by the Napier Sabre IIb. Delivered between June 15th 1944 and January 5th 1945.

     

  • Seventh and final batch of 300 aircraft 299built. SW386-SW428, SW443-SW478, SW493-SW537, SW551-SW596, SW620-SW668, SW681-SW716 and SW728-SW772. Napier Sabre IIb engines. Delivered between January 5th 1945 and November 13th 1945.

 

If it was a 1944 plane from the 6th and 7th batches it would have a Sabre 2b engine, the Sabre 2c is an odd choice indeed but looking at the data from someone who tested it the performance difference isn't much even without the WEP its actually a bit faster higher up a few MPH slower at lower altitudes. 

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And a bloody good one. But still, there were fighter suadrons escorting "Bombphoons" as they were called. Even though I hear most Tiffies had rockets by that time.

 

Indeed, Typhoons were used to escort not only Bombphoons or Rocketphoons, but also twin engine bombers used by the 2nd TAF.

 

Theoretically it was possible to switch from bomb to rocket mount but irl the swap was quite of a struggle and thus Rocket Typhoons and Bomb equiped Typhoons were separate squadrons, even tought some squadrons used to operate both of them, as in A-flight and B-flight, I am sure Bombphoons were quite comon even until the end of the war, as 1000lb bombs were used for specific target such as destroying bridges.

 

Now that's something else missing for the Typhoon and actually every british plane that was able to use them, where are the 1000lb bombs ? The US do have them... Is there such a big difference between both 1000lb that it takes time to model it for the Brit tree ? 

 

In the end, if they decide to let the IB/L at its current tiering, I think It might fair a bit better as a fighter against other with the more regular IIB than the mysterious Sabre IIC...

 

it would be really nice if an Fm designer could give us some clarifications about the choices implying the IB/L..

 

 

 

looking at the data from someone who tested it the performance difference isn't much even without the WEP its actually a bit faster higher up a few MPH slower at lower altitudes. 

Oh, maybe me  :)s

 

HD6i67D.jpg

 

Edit: now I am starting to contradict myself, you are right, speed wise between 7000 ft to 13000 ft we actually gain some speed over the 1.35 Tyffie, which is an altitude where fighting quite regularly happens ( in warthunder, FRB, at least for me ) and at higher alt the speed is pretty even while again starting to gain speed at 17000 ft, so all in all it isnt a bad change from the 1.35 Tyffie

 

The thing is , Sabre IIA and B seemed to exist with various rating, 7lb, 9lb, 11lb, and apparently for the IIB even some rare 13lb, in game the 2 earlyer Typhoons seems to be modelled with Sabre IIa with +7 or +9lb, makes me wondering how much difference is there between the best of the sabre IIB against the IIC...

 

Bah too much question, too much beer to, I am going RTB for now :Ps

Edited by FuryMkI
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Is there something wrong with the compressor? Just researched it and it states that the "new compressor" will decrease the rate of climb with 12,5 m/s.

 

With old compressor I get 37 m/s

With new compressor I get 24,5 m/s

 

That is what the numbers say but it is also true for ingame performance?

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Seems to be a stat card bug more than anything else, it was allready bug reported by someone else here http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/86762-typhoon-mk-1blate-climb-rate/

Ok I was trying to locate were to submit bugreport. But now I dont have to.... :salute:

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This plane is weird seems to have heating issues in the new patch even with fully open radiator and 88% throttle it was still overheating. 

 

Its a lot lower in tier though, pretty much equivalent to tier 10 now. 1b is at like 8. 

 

Sadly you face G2s which haven't been fixed yet so they are very troublesome. Going to have to work a way to use this plane. 

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Oh you have overheating problem with it ? Last time i tested it I could run all over the map without any issue, and i tought we had at least one Typhoon correct, the only one not overheating at 100%...

 

Edit : lol, I am starting to think I have another version of the game ? I went trough test flights flying around with it, radiator fully closed full throttle until i ran out of fuel twice without overheating  :dntknw:

Edited by FuryMkI
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I just permarun the Typhoon MK1b/L at 98% throttle and all is well, mostly flying on high speed. I don't touch the radiator, flying on auto - the radiator fully closed part is bugging me.

 

Other then that, I love the new Typhoon MK1b & MK1b/L flight models. No longer a UFO superspitfire, now the planes can stall and bleed speed in maneuvering quite hard, so you have to be gentle with the controls and calculating instead of just forcing it around like the other planes without a flight model.

 

Some things are still off (overheating bugged, the engine torque at low speed is too low), but overall it's a huge improvement in the direction of realistic flight model.

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WEP is a higher boost in the case of the sabre engine. the thing is that they are modeling the plane with as a rare varient that used the IIC engine (that apparently had no WEP), but most 1B/L had the IIB, that had more power at WEP.

odd decision.

 

yes its a 44 plane but it wasnt a fighter by 44, it was a ground attack plane, so I see no point in putting it a against other fighters of 44. it wasnt an air superiority fighter, why should it face air superiority fighters?

 

Fw 190 F8. T4.

Fw 190 A8. T4.

Bf 109 G6. T4.

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Fw 190 F8. T4.

Fw 190 A8. T4.

Bf 109 G6. T4.

 

The 190 A8 is March 1944, which is later than the Typhoon 1b/late was first introduced, So is the F8 as derivative of the A8.

 

The F8 is currently starting in the air as well.

 

The G6 should probably be late tier 3 if they worked out what version it should be, although later versions where Luftwaffe mainstays early 1944, although really there should be a G14 for that middle 1944 period. 

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The 190 A8 is March 1944, which is later than the Typhoon 1b/late was first introduced, So is the F8 as derivative of the A8.

 

The F8 is currently starting in the air as well.

 

The G6 should probably be late tier 3 if they worked out what version it should be, although later versions where Luftwaffe mainstays early 1944, although really there should be a G14 for that middle 1944 period. 

 

 

The argument was:

 

 

yes its a 44 plane but it wasnt a fighter by 44, it was a ground attack plane, so I see no point in putting it a against other fighters of 44. it wasnt an air superiority fighter, why should it face air superiority fighters?

 

I know for an allied fanboy like you logical thinking is a new thing, but you should give it a try.

 

Your Tiffy 1bLate is more or less a 1944 plane, a good one too - if it has 4-blade propeller, than it's an early-1944 plane, just like A8.

Fw 190 F8 is a heavily armored ground attack plane, I don't remember it starting in the air, but it doesn't matter - it's T4. Fw 190 A8 is T4 too, even though it's by no means better than Tiffy 1bLate. Same goes for G6.

And this brings us to a very simple conclusion: if F8 and A8 and G6 are at T4, Tiffy 1BLate should be T4 too. End of story.

Edited by Loofah
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Actually tajj, 4 bladed propeller went on the production line starting april 44, and olny a small number of 4 bladed Tyffie were operational by D-Day, so you could even consider it as a mid-44 plane .

 

I can't help but there is something that bugs me about the way they modelled it, the speed curve I've made from the number I gathered seems a bit questionable when compared to the ( scarce ) information I have found about the Sabre IIC, but then they might still have data  impossible to find on internet or books... tought I still maintain that It would simply have been easier from the start to model a IIB, but oh well... :dntknw:

 

I'll bother them with my questions and data once they release the Typhoon Ib/L data sheet, as it is for now anyway It is a good Tyffie, not much to complain about it :)s

Edited by FuryMkI
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Loofah has a point.

 

That said, the performance figures... eh, I'm waiting for them to release the data sheet specifying what engine they modeled it on. 1943 Typhoons powered by Sabre IIa were flying faster then this.

Edited by Cpt_Branko
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