Artruis

post war fleet balance issue

have clearly never heard of the Marianas Turkey shoot.


He is technically correct when it comes to performance. I mean when the Yamato was commissioned the US were were just starting to operate the South Dakota class...

Edited by Crag_r
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see my previous answer.

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They had the best officiating they could have asked for.

. Hey at least your team made the tourney, Rice won a whopping 7 games the whole year
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Yea, I'm ready for football season. All the Wildcats start crowing in July about how this is the best team they've ever had and Louisville is going down this year, blah, blah, blah. SEC! SEC! SEC! And then, when we have Petrino since he's back now, we drop about 70 on them, the entire nation laughs at UK, and we go about our lives.

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uh, when did this become about football?

 

I was thinking wait whut? wildcats plane or wildcats team? are the wildcats a football team?  football? what does this have to do with japanese military might in the second world war...

Edited by Aerobane
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He is technically correct when it comes to performance. I mean when the Yamato was commissioned the US were were just starting to operate the South Dakota class...

 

Number of Yamatos built -2 as BB, 1 as carrier except it wasn't even really a fleet carrier but a support ship, in the USN we used cheap CVE's to do the same job, lol.

Number of SoDak's built - 4

Number of N. Carolina Class - 2

Iowa Class - 4

 

Yamato had nothing but dumb brute force.  Video games may reward dumb brute force, but don't sell the USN short. 

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You mean don't sell the massive industrial capacity of the USA short. :) It's why winning the war for the US was mostly a matter of time and will. Even if something wasn't necessarily better, be it plane, tank, or ship, the USA brought tons more of them to fight, and with the best logistical support.

Now, that doesn't make for a fun game though... hence why the scenarios are generally balanced in numbers to give either side a reasonable chance, even if historically one side was screwed.
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Number of Yamatos built -2 as BB, 1 as carrier except it wasn't even really a fleet carrier but a support ship, in the USN we used cheap CVE's to do the same job, lol.

Number of SoDak's built - 4

Number of N. Carolina Class - 2

Iowa Class - 4

 

Yamato had nothing but dumb brute force.  Video games may reward dumb brute force, but don't sell the USN short. 

 

That works both ways...

 

How many of those were operational when the Yamato first was? How many carriers did the Japanese have at that time compared to the US?

 

Because chances are the IJN is going to be sold short and not able to ROFL stomp the USN in the early WW2 teirs due to game "balance". Or at least everyone else is going to be sold Short on their ability to club the early USN.

 

At the time Yamato as the most powerful and advanced ship afloat, it could do brute force but it was far more specialized then that.

 

By my (1941) count its 8 US carriers 17 Battleships(2 modern) vs 15 Japaneses carriers 12 Battleships(6 modern)... remembering that two of those are the Yamatoes which will cause headaches for even for Korean war US battleship upgrades.

By comparison the British have/had 16 battleships(3 modern) +5 Battlecruisers/Fast BB and 9 carriers and the Germans have 9 battleships(2 modern)

Edited by Crag_r
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That's my concern as well, given they way they have (mis)matched various zeroes and their historical opponents. I worry specifically that in weighing the tradeoffs between game balance and historical accuracy, we will be given matchups that manage to be neither. Edited by Isamu_Shosa
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I dunno, the ship I am worried about is USS Midway.

 

The ability to launch powerful jets such as F9F rather than Sea Meteor F-3 makes it a real powerful vessel. Remember the F9F can also carry bombs.......

 

Other than that, I am really not worried about the USN.

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That works both ways...

 

How many of those were operational when the Yamato first was? How many carriers did the Japanese have at that time compared to the US?

 

Because chances are the IJN is going to be sold short and not able to ROFL stomp the USN in the early WW2 teirs due to game "balance". Or at least everyone else is going to be sold Short on their ability to club the early USN.

 

By my (1941) count its 8 US carriers 17 Battleships(2 modern) vs 15 Japaneses carriers 12 Battleships(6 modern)... remembering that two of those are the Yamatoes which will cause headaches for even for Korean war US battleship upgrades.

By comparison the British have/had 16 battleships(3 modern) +5 Battlecruisers/Fast BB and 7 carriers and the Germans have 9 battleships(2 modern)

 

not forgetting that the

RN was a 3 sea navy, the USN a 2 sea navy and the IJN a single sea navy.

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Thread pined due the fantastic constructive behaviour of all of you, with no disrespect as well.

Please continue.

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My only curiosity with the Brits is their Cruisers, I don't know much about them, but I know there wasn't a lot of them either.

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I have a question, what tier will the yamato be? putting it at tier V would just be an insult, it would get clubbed by panthers and such, but at tier III or IV it would be spammed. (imagine 8 yamatos in one match, would kinda suck) how is that going to work? We don't want another me 262 you know, to good for IV, not good enough for V.

 

thanks!

 

 

and PS should I make another topic about this? if so please just delete.

Edited by Aerobane
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well the only way to get round this balance issue, is by limiting the number of each type of ship in a match so people can't spam carriers, battleships or battle cruisers for example.

Edited by Quilvy
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Which is what I think they'll do.

I think a value system should be put into place to allow everyone, regardless of Tier to be in a large battle.

For instance a Yamato would carry a value of 10, and an Iowa 9, and a Pennsylvania a 5. So you could get a Yamato vs an Iowa or 2 Pennsylvania's or something similar. The game would also add ships to keep the value of both sides very close. So if the Americans have a value of 60 and the Germans have a 56 then another ship with a weighted value of 4 would be added to the battle.
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It does make more sense to draw from all ships to create a fleet, as ships generally stayed in service throughout the war, unlike aircraft that were swapped out.  Building new hulls was too expensive, and it was easier to just perform minor upgrades of various systems.  It does also make sense to have the matchmaker generate balanced groups by type, but then, that might wind up making for very long queue times if certain types are underplayed.

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Which is what I think they'll do.

I think a value system should be put into place to allow everyone, regardless of Tier to be in a large battle.

For instance a Yamato would carry a value of 10, and an Iowa 9, and a Pennsylvania a 5. So you could get a Yamato vs an Iowa or 2 Pennsylvania's or something similar. The game would also add ships to keep the value of both sides very close. So if the Americans have a value of 60 and the Germans have a 56 then another ship with a weighted value of 4 would be added to the battle.

I thought about that, but then how would you make players play the less valuable ships? better rewards? that might work.

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I honestly don't think ships will be too imbalanced class wise. I think your cruisers are most likely to have low numbers because destroyers seem to be almost as popular as Battleships and Aircraft Carriers.

 

I think Gaijin is eventually going to have to develop a reward system to boost low numbers for nations or ship classes. For instance, if there is a low number of cruisers the next hour cruisers receive a 25% Lion bonus or something along those lines.

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I'm sure Gaijin could 'lend lease' alt history Japan and USA sending carriers to the Germans and Russians. =P

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I'm sure Gaijin could 'lend lease' alt history Japan and USA sending carriers to the Germans and Russians. =P

 

Germany had one and about 3 others planned. and Russia can stay carrier-less as they cared more about submarines.

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I honestly don't think ships will be too imbalanced class wise. I think your cruisers are most likely to have low numbers because destroyers seem to be almost as popular as Battleships and Aircraft Carriers.

 

I think Gaijin is eventually going to have to develop a reward system to boost low numbers for nations or ship classes. For instance, if there is a low number of cruisers the next hour cruisers receive a 25% Lion bonus or something along those lines.

pfft they need that for planes, I thought of making a suggestion a while ago. like take the percentages of what nations are being played, and use that to dictate the RP rewards for playing those nations.

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I dunno, the ship I am worried about is USS Midway.

 

The ability to launch powerful jets such as F9F rather than Sea Meteor F-3 makes it a real powerful vessel. Remember the F9F can also carry bombs.......

 

Other than that, I am really not worried about the USN.

 

Well to be fair the Fleet Air Arm is lacking its jets like the Hawker Sea Hawk, Supermarine attacker or Sea Venom which actually out performs the F9F almost all regards. (also the Sea Vampire but not quite out performing the F9F)

 

And for Angled flight decks well both the US and British have that invention at the time.

 

But i suppose that brings in another issue for the games time. There was actually quite a gap in tactical fleet defence of the time in that navies were completely reliant on aircraft been intercepted by their own aircraft as naval gunnery was lacking in engaging jets. This was only fixed with SAM's a few years after the games time. So that means the top teir is going to be RN/USN club all unless we see some paper...

Edited by Crag_r
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My only curiosity with the Brits is their Cruisers, I don't know much about them, but I know there wasn't a lot of them either.


There were quite a few British cruisers but they don't seem to get much ink from historians. Britain had a major concern with budgetary constraints and making a large fleet capable of travelling to the far reaches of the empire. Thus many robust (expensive) designs were cut down in order to make them cheaper, with varying degrees of success. If you are interested in reading about cruisers, check out "In the Shadow of the Battleship: Considering the Cruisers of WWII" by Richard Worth.

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