Artruis

post war fleet balance issue

378 posts in this topic

When fleet comes out...
At first japan will be able to compete with US, but as time goes, Japanese fleet air arm eventually is out classed. F4U is more than a match for all zeros... and the ki84 and n1k are land based fighters. And in post war era, US has unparalleled naval power, especially in fleet air arm... only british and US has carrier based jet in that era...
So post WWII HB will be a seal clubbing event for US and British, unless you match them against each other... but hey US never fought UK since the war of 1812...
Just think how USSR can possibly have a chance in post war fleet combat...
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you're speculating on something that is a long way from being reality and you have no clue about...

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Agreed letherneck, this guy does not know the meaning of pro an con
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When fleet comes out...
At first japan will be able to compete with US, but as time goes, Japanese fleet air arm eventually is out classed. F4U is more than a match for all zeros... and the ki84 and n1k are land based fighters. And in post war era, US has unparalleled naval power, especially in fleet air arm... only british and US has carrier based jet in that era...
So post WWII HB will be a seal clubbing event for US and British, unless you match them against each other... but hey US never fought UK since the war of 1812...
Just think how USSR can possibly have a chance in post war fleet combat...

first mistake is you are saying japanese ships will be outclassed by the US because of airplanes? in reality, Japanese ships were always on par with or better than any US vessel during the war, so unless your entire team is in airplanes japan will be a very strong competitor as far as navy goes.

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Well in terms of Battleships i can see Japan actually have the best in game Yamato, (I honestly do not care what the US fanboys try and tell you) That means for balance every single other tree will need paper ships to compete things like the Montana, N3/G3, H-42 ect, Carriers are another point as the US reigns far supreme of Japan, so others will need help competing with airwing size and performance/protection...

 

And the Russians will need serious help competing with everyone else for almost every single line past WW1...

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Well in terms of Battleships i can see Japan actually have the best in game Yamato, (I honestly do not care what the US fanboys try and tell you) That means for balance every single other tree will need paper ships to compete things like the Montana, N3/G3, H-42 ect, Carriers are another point as the US reigns far supreme of Japan, so others will need help competing with airwing size and performance/protection...

 

And the Russians will need serious help competing with everyone else for almost every single line past WW1...

The yamato probably was the best battleship ever built, but I don't think the US will need paper ships to compete, the yamato may have been better, but the Iowa class battleships were strong contenders for that title back then, also, the Japanese have one major disadvantage for their large caliber AA guns, shells with proximity fuses.

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The yamato probably was the best battleship ever built, but I don't think the US will need paper ships to compete, the yamato may have been better, but the Iowa class battleships were strong contenders for that title back then, also, the Japanese have one major disadvantage for their large caliber AA guns, shells with proximity fuses.

 

If you want to be competing against a Yamato with an Iowa be my guest, personally i would be picking the Montana any day to do it.

 

Also to note that the US large caliber guns could also use AA rounds...

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I think taking an Iowa class battleship against the yamato would be wiser than taking a blueprint, would that Montana class be rolled up? or in airplane form? but on a serious note, the yamato will be able to hang around and slug it out, but you have to take into account that the US had better fire control, so that is why I am saying the Iowa and yamato will be somewhat balanced by each other, any naval historian would agree with me on this one

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I think taking an Iowa class battleship against the yamato would be wiser than taking a blueprint, would that Montana class be rolled up? or in airplane form? but on a serious note, the yamato will be able to hang around and slug it out, but you have to take into account that the US had better fire control, so that is why I am saying the Iowa and yamato will be somewhat balanced by each other, any naval historian would agree with me on this one

 

No they wouldn't, most of what you read on the two is actually allot of US propaganda on the issue.

 

Performance wise the Yamato enjoys a much larger immunity zone then what the Iowa gets, Yamato has far thicker armor in every case, Speed difference is negligible, the 18.1" APC and the 16" Mk.8 shells share quite similar values. Any one who dismisses the Yamato FCS fails to take into account that the Yamato holds the longest range gunnery "damage" (not hit) on the USS white plains. Japan actually had excellent optical based FCS throughout the war and and towards the end some quite decent radar systems, the only chance the US has with the Iowa alone is blind shooting on night or poor vis maps, not something that is to be relied upon.

 

Montana on the other-hand brings in some much needed armor upgrades as well as additional firepower to give the US some chance at a decent immunity zone against Yamato's, otherwise the term "hot knife though butter" comes to mind.

 

If you want info look here on the US vs Japan i would look here http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/49162-how-are-you-against-an-iowancsodak-class-battleship-with-radarcomputer-guided-guns/

 

To give you an idea even WG is not having Iowa's on the top teir the Yamato in WoWS....

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I don't think speed was really negligible between the Iowa and the Yamato. The Iowa had a few knots of speed better than the Yamato. In a real life battle, 1 vs 1 I'd take the Yamato because the Iowa could keep her at arms length until they were ready to engage on their terms. Meaning that they'd engage at night or in poor visibility.

 

The Iowa is basically the BnZ ship, to relate it to planes, she only engages when she has the advantage, and then gets away. 

 

In a straight up, clear day, gun to gun fight the Yamato would win. If you put her against the Montana then I think the Montana would win because of scheer fire power. Having 3 more shells per salvo is huge in that battle.

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The US Navy had radar and later in the Pacific won night fights without comeback through it's use.

However you cannot take anything from the IJN, their excellent tactics and use of their superior torpedoes in night battles gave them plenty of local victories.

Fleets are a long way off though.
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There's always prototype, blueprints, and part made ships for axis.
Although then H-45, A-150, would be one hell of a problem.

 

No need to go quite that far...

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The main glaring issue i would think is carriers and more to the point their jet powered aircraft that would come with them that would make it so that the only top BR nations for carriers and possibly the whole tree are the US and Britain.

 

Though those two would balance each-other out - the US has the carrier size and the British have the aircraft(de Halivard Sea Venom>F9F)

Edited by Crag_r
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Can we have the A-150 "super yamato" if they add the Uss montana ? :D

 

Yamato and the Montana Balance each-other out... A-150 is rather unneeded considering even its predecessor will cause balance issues.

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Well in terms of Battleships i can see Japan actually have the best in game Yamato, (I honestly do not care what the US fanboys try and tell you) That means for balance every single other tree will need paper ships to compete things like the Montana, N3/G3, H-42 ect, Carriers are another point as the US reigns far supreme of Japan, so others will need help competing with airwing size and performance/protection...

 

And the Russians will need serious help competing with everyone else for almost every single line past WW1...

I am no US fanboy but the Iowa was waaaay better than the Yamato.

 

It was faster, had far superior fire control and anti-air.

 

With aircraft having such dominance in terms of sea battles, anti-air isn't something that you skimp on. Which they learned this lesson later after the Musashi was sunk by, you guessed it, aircraft. Good fire control is also kinda necessary. It lets you hit targets.

 

I love the Yamato as a piece of art and culture. It's a mighty symbol of the Empire. But it was an inefficient blunt force design wholely outclassed by the Iowa.

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I am no US fanboy but the Iowa was waaaay better than the Yamato.

 

It was faster, had far superior fire control and anti-air.

 

With aircraft having such dominance in terms of sea battles, anti-air isn't something that you skimp on. Which they learned this lesson later after the Musashi was sunk by, you guessed it, aircraft. Good fire control is also kinda necessary. It lets you hit targets.

 

I love the Yamato as a piece of art and culture. It's a mighty symbol of the Empire. But it was an inefficient blunt force design wholely outclassed by the Iowa.

 

Read below

 

Also keeping in mind that Musashi was sunk by aircraft from 7 fleet carriers after 17+ bombs and 19+ torpedoes, By most estimates the Iowa would only be able to handle at most a third of that. With Yamato been sunk by near on 400 aircraft as well.

 

No they wouldn't, most of what you read on the two is actually allot of US propaganda on the issue.

 

Performance wise the Yamato enjoys a much larger immunity zone then what the Iowa gets, Yamato has far thicker armor in every case, Speed difference is negligible, the 18.1" APC and the 16" Mk.8 shells share quite similar values. Any one who dismisses the Yamato FCS fails to take into account that the Yamato holds the longest range gunnery "damage" (not hit) on the USS white plains. Japan actually had excellent optical based FCS throughout the war and and towards the end some quite decent radar systems, the only chance the US has with the Iowa alone is blind shooting on night or poor vis maps, not something that is to be relied upon.

 

Montana on the other-hand brings in some much needed armor upgrades as well as additional firepower to give the US some chance at a decent immunity zone against Yamato's, otherwise the term "hot knife though butter" comes to mind.

 

If you want info look here on the US vs Japan i would look here http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/49162-how-are-you-against-an-iowancsodak-class-battleship-with-radarcomputer-guided-guns/

 

To give you an idea even WG is not having Iowa's on the top teir the Yamato in WoWS....

Edited by Crag_r
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How will Britain's best BB stand up to the Yamato?

I wonder too, I don't know much about their ships.

 

Yamato and the Iowa Balance each-other out...

Edited by Bullfrog_
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-10 Tu-4s comes... 10 seconds later US fleet is gone-

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I wonder too, I don't much about their ships.

 

Again no. Armor differences and relative inferences to fire-control systems accuracy in visual conditions wont give give balance for the Iowa.

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No they wouldn't, most of what you read on the two is actually allot of US propaganda on the issue.

 

Performance wise the Yamato enjoys a much larger immunity zone then what the Iowa gets, Yamato has far thicker armor in every case, Speed difference is negligible, the 18.1" APC and the 16" Mk.8 shells share quite similar values. Any one who dismisses the Yamato FCS fails to take into account that the Yamato holds the longest range gunnery "damage" (not hit) on the USS white plains. Japan actually had excellent optical based FCS throughout the war and and towards the end some quite decent radar systems, the only chance the US has with the Iowa alone is blind shooting on night or poor vis maps, not something that is to be relied upon.

 

Montana on the other-hand brings in some much needed armor upgrades as well as additional firepower to give the US some chance at a decent immunity zone against Yamato's, otherwise the term "hot knife though butter" comes to mind.

 

If you want info look here on the US vs Japan i would look here http://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/49162-how-are-you-against-an-iowancsodak-class-battleship-with-radarcomputer-guided-guns/

 

To give you an idea even WG is not having Iowa's on the top teir the Yamato in WoWS....

Montana was not even COMMISSIONED, why would you expect it to be implemented? Iowa is enough, besides, Yamato/Musashi's size you make it vulnerable to planes and other ships.

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