Vought F7U Cutlass  

134 members have voted

  1. 1. Should this plane be added in the game at some point ?

    • Yes , it should .
    • No it shouldnt . ( Please explain why in topic )
  2. 2. Should it have its full payload capacity of 2.5 Tonnes ( 5.5k Lb ) ?

    • Yes it needs it .
    • No it would be too much .
  3. 3. Should the plane be tier 19 or 20 in the USN line ?



The Vought F7U Cutlass was a swept-wing tailless single-seat carrier-borne fighter which entered service with the US Navy in several versions from 1952.

 

It was the first production naval aircraft to achieve supersonic flight, the first to release bombs at a speed greater than the speed of sound and the first to be catapulted from a carrier while carrying nearly 2300kg of external stores. It also featured : " was fitted with full-span leading-edge slats, air brakes, power-operated irreversible 'ailavators' (combined ailerons and elevators) and vertical fin and rudder surfaces."

 

Four versions of this aircraft were produced :

 

-14 F7U-1s for training purposes, power was provided by two J34-WE-32 turbojets.

 

-F7U-3 180 produced , incorporated folding wings , arrester gear and more powerfull J46-WE-8A turbojet engines

 

-F7U-3P reconnaissance version

 

-F7U-3M adapted for carrying  4 Sparrow rockets

 

Enough talking lets get to the stats !

 

Specification

 

MODEL :  F7U-3

 

CREW :  1

 

Powerplant  :  2 x Westinghouse J46-WE-8A afterburning turbo-jet, 2767kN

 

Weight    Take-off weight 14365 kg 31670 lb     Empty weight 8267 kg 18226 lb

 

Dimensions :    Wingspan 12.1 m 40 ft 8 in     Length 13.5 m 44 ft 3 in     Height 4.45 m 15 ft 7 in     Wing area 46.08 m2 496.00 sq ft

 

Perfomance :  Ceiling 12190 m 40000 ft      Range 1062 km 660 miles

 

Climb rate : 14,420 ft/min (73.3 m/s) with Military power + afterburner

 

Top speed : 606 kn (697 mph; 1,122 km/h) at sea level with Military power + afterburner

 

ARMAMENT : 4 x 20mm cannons, 2 .5 tonnes ( 5.5k lb) of  bombs or missiles

 

Attack Loadout :

- 4x Pack of Mighty Mouse air to air rockets ( one pack is 32 FFAR rockets , similar to HVARs but smaller )

- 8x 500lb bombs   

- 4x 1000 lb bombs

 

Perfomance Charts :

                F7U-1                 F7U-3M

[attachment=41814:image-1.jpg]            [attachment=41905:image-1.jpg]

[attachment=41815:image-2.jpg]            [attachment=41906:image-2.jpg]

[attachment=41816:image-3.jpg]            [attachment=41907:image-3.jpg]

[attachment=41817:image-4.jpg]            [attachment=41908:image-4.jpg]

[attachment=41818:image-5.jpg]            [attachment=41909:image-5.jpg]

[attachment=41819:image-6.jpg]            [attachment=41910:image-6.jpg]

 

Well there it is ..... best hopes for it even getting thru to suggestions ;)

Also link to the site where i got the info from : http://www.aviastar.org/air/usa/chance_cutlass.php

 

Sincerely

                Steel

EDIT / Added poll

Second EDIT / Added bomb / rocket Loadout

 

 

Some pictures :

300px-F7UCutlass.jpg

[attachment=35388:124415.jpg]

[attachment=35389:128451.jpg]

[attachment=35390:128454.jpg]

[attachment=35391:129553.jpg]

Edited by Rautaa
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My goal is to reach US lvl 20 so I can fly some jets, and I would love to have something like this there. Also I wonder if the US will ever get the radar guided gun sight, since for historical and FRB that would give it's jets like the sabre the gun accuracy and range it had in real life.

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If we even do get the radar gunsight and / or the G-suits its not gonna be anytime soon tbh..... they have bigger worries atm like tanks and FM but yeah , hope we do get the stuff ;)

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If we even do get the radar gunsight and / or the G-suits its not gonna be anytime Soon™ tbh..... they have bigger worries atm like tanks and FM but yeah , hope we do get the stuff ;)

 

WT have what like 20% of the planes with the right FM and DM, WT have been around for about a year, and is adding more stuff. If i was you i'd give up on the idea of the FM and DM getting fixed. Because at the current pace, they will all be finished in about 3 more years.

So yeah.. I'm just hoping the stuff they add makes up for their lack of fixing things.

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If we even do get the radar gunsight and / or the G-suits its not gonna be anytime Soon™ tbh..... they have bigger worries atm like tanks and FM but yeah , hope we do get the stuff ;)

 

 

G-Suits are just G-force resistors. 

 

 

So set the G-force effect to set in later and disperse faster.

 

done/done.

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Regarded as a radical departure from traditional aircraft design, the Cutlass suffered from numerous technical and handling problems throughout its short service career. The type was responsible for the deaths of four test pilots and 21 other U.S. Navy pilots.[1] Over one quarter of all Cutlasses built were destroyed in accidents. The poor safety record was largely the result of the advanced design built to apply new aerodynamic theories and insufficiently powerful, unreliable engines.

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G-suits and radar ranging sights, while historical, are terrible when it comes to balance issues. There's no way to balance things like that. I don't see them coming at all.

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G-suits and radar ranging sights, while historical, are terrible when it comes to balance issues. There's no way to balance things like that. I don't see them coming at all.

 

Well history showed things in reality were balanced by skill of pilots. Look at the mig and sabre kill and loss, they were pretty much 1 for 1. The sabre had a little bit higher, do to just some amazing training the pilots got.

Now we have balance in game by aircraft being matched up through a teir system, thus making up for lack of skill in most pilots.

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As a US pilot and someone who wants the game to stay mainly historical with planes relying on their service entry dates.

I have to say no to this plane, since the first squad being the VF-82 got their Cutlass's in April 1954.
If this plane is placed in, Russian folks will scream out for their Mig-17F. And then in return US would probably scream for the F-100 Super Sabre..

I don't want this game to devolve into a rolling ball of power creep (*looks at World of Tanks*)

 

I'd rather take proper flight models for the F series Sabre.

Edited by Carla_J_Luksic
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Well.

The cutlass would be better in vertical then Mig-15 / Sabre..

And service entry are out of the scope of the games time-line.

Putting it into the game would be power creep, which would slowly start phase Sabre's out and Mig-15's... Mig-15's would be most likely changed with Mig-17F's and so on.

Just because Cougar can't go toe to toe vs Mig-15 without energy advantage, doesn't really justify putting a new jet in there that could do that.

 

The first US Navy jets weren't that good, it's a fact we have to live with.

You can always ask about this jet in the Q&A sessions when they appear, but I'm 100% sure that they're also going to say no to this jet.

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And if I might weigh in....

 

 

Thrust to weight was 0,29..... 

 

 

MiG-15bis (The fighter it will face when things get sorted) had one of 0,54.... AND a lesser wing loading.

 

 

So yes, while the Cutlass was faster in the long run, it will take a REALLY long time to get there, and while you're trying to scoot away, the MiG-15bis will probably out-accelerate you and shoot you down.

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Heh 395 wiews..... this might even grow big enough to be seen by a dev of some sort :P

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This might even grow big enough to be seen by a dev of some sort :P

 

Passing this to further discussion.

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Ty alot wulf !

 

As of a side note i found some more interesting info about the performance of the F7U ... The testing was done in july 1951 :

 

"Conceived in part from swept-wing, tailless research recovered from the German manufacturer Arado after World War II, the Chance Vought F7U Cutlass was a radical departure from not only every other naval aircraft, but just about anything in the air at that time. It had no tail. Its vast, swept wings (with an area totaling 496 square feet) were nearly as long from leading to trailing edge as they were from root to tip. Its monster nosegear—the first to be fully steerable—placed the pilot 14 feet in the air, and during carrier landings tended to collapse. It also had the first hydraulic system at high pressure: 3,000 pounds per square inch—twice the pressure of the systems on other Navy jets—and all-hydraulic flight controls with built-in “artificial feel,” which restored control-surface feedback to the pilot. It also had a 570 degree per second roll rate which outmacthed any US built jet at that time "

 

Well according to this info the Cutlass was a pretty nimble jet despite its very slow acceleration beacuse of the very un-realible Westinghouse jet engines :

 

"The F7U-3 shared a design flaw with the F7U-1: two anemic Westinghouse jet engines. The company promised Vought and the Navy it could build an engine for the -3 that would generate 10,000 pounds of thrust in afterburner. By the time the J-46-WE-8A was delivered, Westinghouse had dropped the estimate by 10 percent. Later evaluations indicated it could put out no more than 6,100 pounds. And no existing engine would fit the Cutlass’ airframe."

 

The planes very good rate of climb is confirmed by a test pilot on a air show done by Blue Angels :

 

"While the Panthers were grounded for fuel control problems in the spring of 1952, Feightner, in a blue and gold Cutlass, made his Blue Angels airshow debut, flying a one-man show for VIPs in Pensacola, Florida. “I rolled down there, hit the afterburner, and headed straight up,” he says. “We didn’t have any other airplane that could do that in those days.

 

And thats mostly it ..... Il try to find some more  around the planes general introduction in the army ....

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" It also had the first hydraulic system at high pressure: 3,000 pounds per square inch—twice the pressure of the systems on other Navy jets—and all-hydraulic flight controls with built-in “artificial feel,” which restored control-surface feedback to the pilot. It also had a 570 degree per second roll rate which outmacthed any US built jet at that time "

 

 

570  deg/s........ I think you might get a little dizzy.....

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What is that compared to the Sabre / MiG ? Idk the exact values for them

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570  deg/s........ I think you might get a little dizzy.....

Sounds pretty awesome to be honest.  DO A BARREL ROLL!  or is that a drill roll?   :lol:

Edited by Evaris
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Was not assigned to any squadrons before 1954.

No pilot was trained to fly it before the end of the Korean war.

No squadron has them available before the end of the Korean war.

 

This fits the timeline exactly the same as the MiG-17 does; in production, delivered, but crews were not trained, and was not available to contribute to the Korean war effort.

 

The "in service' tag on the wikipedia page for this thing doesn't mean anything.

 

Even in your own source: Delivery of production F7U-3 to the Navy began in 1954.

Edited by Nabutso
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Was not assigned to any squadrons before 1954.

No pilot was trained to fly it before the end of the Korean war.

No squadron has them available before the end of the Korean war.

 

This fits the timeline exactly the same as the MiG-17 does; in production, delivered, but crews were not trained, and was not available to contribute to the Korean war effort.

 

The "in service' tag on the wikipedia page for this thing doesn't mean anything.

But the USSR != Korea, so.... what's the problem?  

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Oi may you have read the hwole wall of text i wrote first ?

 

Blue Angles were the only ones to do extensive reasarch on the aircraft in 1951. The test kept on going until the F7U-3M  came which was later assigned to squadrons in 1955. F7U-3 on the other hand was in a sqaudron for some time but got rejected due to its very un-realible engines and overall structure .

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should it be added? considering the actual service dates, no...

should it have historical payloads? sure

what tier should it be? tier 25...

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... what?

You were pointing out on the MiG 17 that because it wasn't ready in time for the Korean war, (like the F7U) that even though it was delivered (and hence technically introduced to service) it shouldn't be valid, HOWEVER the USSR was not directly (technically) involved in Korea, thus your argument is invalid on this point.  And just because a plane is delivered too late to be shipped to a theater of war does not in my mind exclude it from being valid for the USA either.  

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You were pointing out on the MiG 17 that because it wasn't ready in time for the Korean war, (like the F7U) that even though it was delivered (and hence technically introduced to service) it shouldn't be valid, HOWEVER the USSR was not directly (technically) involved in Korea, thus your argument is invalid on this point.  And just because a plane is delivered too late to be shipped to a theater of war does not in my mind exclude it from being valid for the USA either.  

It's 2013. Pretty sure it's obvious by now that America wasn't fighting only Koreans in the skies above Korea. It doesn't matter if it 'technically' wasn't involved. If the MiG-17 was available, it would have been there. 

Edited by Nabutso
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