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The War Thunder Bible


Finally somebody gets it. Honestly all these ''experts'' (eggspurts) are like the cod gun ''experts''. ''Hurr durr I know exactly how many bullets an m4 carbine can fire in 2 minutes and 34 seconds''. Sounds just like the players saying ''I know exactly how fast a fw 190 can climb after going in a 70 degree dive for 5 seconds''

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GREAT post !!

Most people forget they where beginners (Aces,newbs,unskilled,useless,idiots (and so on)) when they started to play this game.

The elitisch behavior coming out the un-mature thinking they have isn't making this game as fun as it should be !

Maybe it's time for those people to have a good look in the mirror, and think of what made them this way.

 

I realy hope the people will see the light Lt_Jack.

Edited by Wiskasz
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Thank you for posting this OP. I'm fully on your side. As someone majoring in American History with a particular interest in WW2, I can back you up on several points, but the biggest one is that what people THINK these aircraft can do, and what they CAN do, are two polar opposite things. The OP is correct in that most of the stories of a planes miracle wins or survivals are based on fact, but over time, like so many great legends, became clouded and distorted by myth and exaggeration, those two wreckers of truly amazing and REAL stories.

 

As for the "fanboy" label, please, feel free to call me one, I am a huge fan of this game and all it's nations, so I suppose by that definition I do qualify. I get rather a good laugh out of such labels and so called "insults" as I find them rather dull and unworthy of my attention, other than to chuckle a wee bit and be on my way.

 

As for manners and treating other's politely, I do indeed attempt this, even when someone team kills me for "stealing" a kill which they clearly did not have yet, and couldn't seem to get. Will I engage any enemy in range if it is clear their craft is still air worthy? Of course! Not to do so would be insultingly foolish to not only me but my entire team. Will I engage an enemy going down with a wing missing so as to take the credit for a kill I have no right to? No. I refuse to stoop to such a disgraceful tactic. I also refuse to touch an enemy if someone else has called dibs on him. Why do I do these things? Out of courtesy and respect for my team mates. I know how aggravating it is to think you have a kill, the wing is off of the enemy, he is down, and suddenly, pewpewpew, a friendly aircraft hits him a few times, giving me only an assist. Ergo, I try to set an example for my team mates by refraining from these actions.

 

Treat others how you wish to be treated. If someone team kills you, for example, for shooting down a craft that they had set on fire, but the craft then extinguished the fire and was still air worthy, as happened to me just last match, let them. We have a fully functional report button. Use it. What does swearing and getting angry accomplish? It gets you chat banned if they report you, and raises your blood pressure. That. Is. All. It. Does. Let the game enforcers do their jobs by handling the problem. Simply move on to another match, grind out those hard to get rps and silver lions, and have a good day wreaking havoc on War Thunder.

Edited by Talon_12

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  • 2 weeks later...
Hi,

I just what to say I couldn't agree more with the op... I am new, but I have have spent many hours reading many posts here,esp try in to get my joystick worked out...and the op is right on with his post. Thank you!
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Great opinion piece keep up the good work. The criticism is just a reflection of our society. It can't be my fault, it must be the game.....
Thanks for the insights

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I'm new to the board and the game intent to tip toe quietly into FRB as soon as I have a degree of comfort with the controls.

 

Thanks for taking the time to pen this as it is re assuring to know that help and pointers will be available from some quarters. I will have lots of questions some of which might be relevant.

 

OP thanks for the read and thanks to everyone that replied, the diverse posts do give an indication of the breath of opinion and attitude within the community.

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So.

 

Here I am once again at my desk, after work typing away, Bruce Springsteen in the background, beer in hand and looking forward to the cricket starting…

 

So grab a drink and settle down, this is Jack’s guide to a better War Thunder, AKA “The War Thunder Bible”.

 

I’ve been fairly pleased lately, not with the game, no, it’s just as infuriating as ever, yet, like the majority of us, I can’t resist. What I have been impressed with is the marginal increase in tolerance, courtesy and general humanity.

 

But, unfortunately I can only say “marginally”

 

People still Complain, people still abuse, people still attack others for voicing an opinion.

 

I honestly don’t understand what’s hard about keeping your vindictive comments to yourself and leave the guy, no matter how wrong you think he is. Sure, leave a comment with your opinion, but don’t be aggressive, don’t belittle the guy, and most of all, DO NOT CALL HIM A FANBOY

 

Calling someone a fan boy is possibly one of the most unintelligent responses short of grunting.  What is it anyway? Do you seriously believe that someone because they are expressing their view of an aircraft is dedicated to that nation and will never play anything else?

 

“Fanboy, Stop trying to change the game to sealclub in your 109”

 

“Go back To FRB you Sim Fanboy”

 

See how sad it is?

 

I feel sorry for the newcomers to the game, maybe they want to ask a question, maybe they want to read up about a plane before they buy it. However, what they are hit with is a wall of “OP” and “UFO” and “Fanboy”. Hell, they might even get abused for wondering why spits are out climbing planes he read were superior climbers. All he’s seen is the “Historical” tag and thought that it was a legitimate question.

 

Yet I bet you that he’d be faced with 10-12 people all telling him to either “L2P” as opposed to someone sending him a nice reply about the game, Maybe including a few pointers, a short explanation about the true “Historical Accuracy” of the game and a an answer to his question.

 

Hey, that’s a good idea.

 

That sounds awfully like society..

 

Shame its lacking here…

 

So while I’m on the topic lets introduce a basic list of HB courtesy. I’m sure if even some people followed it, it would spread like a virus, well, we can only hope.

 

1) Be Polite – Don’t get angry at a guy for flying a particular plane of style, if he’s having fun then let him… that’s what games are for.

 

2) Apologize when necessary – Maybe if you accidently ram a guy in the heat of the moment, or put a burst through a teammate. It might only take a few seconds, but trust me, it’ll cool him down, and you won’t seem like an idiot to your team.

 

3) Tolerance – This ties in with number 2, If any of those things happen to you and you don’t get an apology, don’t start blazing away in chat. Tell him politely what he’s done and hopefully he’ll realize, if he comes back with something arrogant or unremorseful then report him. Simple as that.

 

4) Control your greed, be respectful – If you see a guy that’s on another guys tail, don’t dive in straight from the top and poach the guys kill, same deal with obviously downed aero planes. When a b25 is on fire, in a roll and plummeting to earth, you can reasonably assume he’s as good as dead. Don’t swoop in for a steal unless the guy gives you permission, he’s most likely left him to die that way so he doesn’t get shot down. Sure, if the plane comes out of the death spin then go for him, he’s obviously capable of fighting back, but don’t go out of your way to rob people of their hard earned kills.

 

5) Forum behavior – If you get shot down and you think it’s unjustified and you are to good to be shot down, keep it to yourself, as simple as that.

 

I don’t care about the 109 or zero that took you out with a single 7.7mm. I’m not believing it, neither is anyone else, and I don’t want to see endless complaining on the forum. Just leave the complaining to when you’re in the shower.

 

Number 5 actually brings me onto an equally important point.

 

Complaining.

 

It’s so prevalent in this game, what triggered us to be so prone to this… Disease. 

 

I find it ridiculous that people can't fathom that during WW2, some planes were just better than others.

 

"This plane is way better than mine, what the hell"

 

If a plane is better than another, so be it. It's still beatable; just make the effort to find how.

 

People are getting far to in depth about statistics and engines and dates of production.

 

Leave it.

 

This game will be awful if all planes are dumbed down to be more or less equal.

 

I want the satisfaction of shooting down a TA152 in a P51, knowing it has the supercharger, but I also want to see bombers disintegrate under my 30mm's.

 

I want an accurate WW2 game, free from the influence of players. Well as much as possible anyway.

 

Have you noticed that the more whining and "Help" players add, the more people whine?

 

Leave gaijin to do what THEY wanted to do with the game, that’s what I started playing for.

 

I didn't start playing to see little girls crying about being shot down.

 

There is very little constructive writing on this forum, it’s almost disgusting to read.

 

For god’s sake, treat each other like human beings, you are whining over a GAME.

 

Gaijin doesn't owe you anything, you, the players helping to fund the game does not mean you can dictate the end product.

 

A lot of the problems you all complain about stem from the player base itself, fix your behaivour and attitude and it'll, as a whole, fix the majority of the game.

 

'P40 OP'

 

'TA 152 OP'

 

'SPITFIRE MK IX OP'

 

'K4 OP'

 

'G2 OP'

 

'F4 OP'

 

'B17 OP'

 

'N1K OP'

 

'F8F OP'

 

'DORAS OP'

 

'VAMPIRE OP'

 

METEORS OP'

 

'A20G OP'

 

'ME 163 OP'

 

'MIG 15 OP'

 

RUSSIANS OP

 

GERMANS OP

 

YANKS OP

 

JAPANESE OP

 

BRITS OP

 

 

 

See how pathetic it looks.

 

Overcome adversity and grow a pair.

 

YOU are the problem

 

YOU can be the solution

 

 

And other types, not technically whining but it has that aura/quality to it. One in particular is the threads created about plane durability. Quoting circumstances which were close to miracle status are not the norm performance wise on that plane.

 

One which comes to mind is Robert S. Johnson’s story, the now famous story of him recovering from a dive in a badly damaged Thunderbolt which just so happened to be on fire. He recovered from the dive, and was able to maintain stable level flight on a course for England. On his way, he was confronted with 2 Fw190’s one, a German ace, a skilled marksmen with (If my memory serves me correctly) 102 kills.

 

The Ace, Egon Mayer Pumped his plane full of rounds, I assume the majority causing hits due to Johnson’s undeviated flight path. Once the Fw190 was out of shells he saluted Johnson with a shake of the head and flew home.

 

Now the first thing that comes to these players’ minds is that Johnson just absorbed over 2000 7.92 rounds and 500 twenty millimetre cannon shells, the majority being Minengeschoß. I don’t blame the ignorant masses for this, but what they are forgetting is that Egon didn’t have mouse Aim, (though I’m Sure he would’ve like it) He was firing with a joystick, a difficult task, especially when outside factors such as wind speed, thermal currents, and turbulence are taken into account. He also was documented to have reported three kills that day, with Johnson presumably included in his tally.

 

Though he may have flown several sorties, he may have also been low on ammunition after already downing 2 aircraft.

 

Making claims that this scenario was the norm for the P47 is not only ridiculous but frankly, a blatant lie.  I remember watching the news the other day, about a teen boy in Australia who fell off a balcony and had a fence paling impale him straight through the eye socket, piercing the brain and exiting the back of the skull. He hung of this fence from this iron spike

 

The boy survived with little more than slight motor function impairment.

 

Now from that scenario would you say that the human body can easily withstand major trauma to the brain with an iron spike?

 

No, it’s an isolated incident, incredibly rare, a miracle if you like…

 

So why are you disappointed to see you’re P47 die after a burst from a pair of MG151/20’s? One can only expect so much from an airframe before it becomes unfathomable and unrealistic. From my limited powered flight experience I can say that flight is a delicate thing, you are in a fine tuned machine designed to do something that for thousands of years, was thought impossible.

 

I know the P51 and P47 where propped up to myth like status in post war America, but the expectation of its performance is ridiculous.

 

It was designed to be a numerically superior escort fighter, capable of flying to the border of Germany with the bombers.

 

Yes, it was a good diver, but so was the Focke Wulf, they dive similar because there is only so fast a prop powered plane can dive, and whilst the P47 was faster, it would only slowly pull away from a Fw190 in the same dive.

 

I love flying this plane, if you get above stuff then you can be, if you fly it right, pretty much untouchable.

 

I think people are getting influenced the American version of the Air war, where the P51 and P47 wiped the floor. The P47 was an air superiority fighter, they swarmed the Germans in higher numbers, which, often resulted in an American victory.

 

Yes, it was a good fighter for its role, but don't expect the 47 to turn fight whilst also being capable of unparalleled booming and zooming characteristics, WHILST also still fulfilling this obviously bull rumor of it being able to take a 500 round burst of German 20mm from a Fw190.

 

I know where that stemmed from and it’s been overly exaggerated, after the damage that pilot's plane sustained, the best he could do was barely keep her flying level.

 

 

I can say the same thing about the mustang, and the B17, whilst I love both, people have this expectation that they just shouldn't be shot down in them. Yeah, the B17 was tough, but when you are flying in a solo B17, don't expect to survive long.

 

And the Mustang....

 

A great fighter, but not properly implemented into the game yet.

 

You can't make use of its greatest characteristics, just because of minor things like map size and lack of superchargers.

 

But hey, I'm fine with that, Gaijin have barely scratched the surface of what the plan to do with this game, and. I'm in no hurry, leave them to it and let them sort out the P47 with an unbiased view of it.

 

They after all, would have a much better idea of how it flew and what it was capable of.

 

My grandfather actually flew one, and said it was a great plane, he likened it to a rocket in a straight line, Typical of most American engineering (What in the Hell Is turnin’)

 

However He also had the pleasure of a joy flight in a D9 after the war and said that he, in his opinion, thought it was a better aircraft. I never said the P51 was "bad" I think it was a great aircraft and a superb peice of aeronautical engineering, what I do think however is that its exploits over Europe, as most great stories has been exaggerated to the point of myth. People expect it to be much more than it is, and whilst I don't dispute its important role in and significant contribution to the air war, I really think it was due more to:

 

1) Better pilots

 

2) Numerical supremacy

 

3) The incredible range

 

4) The ever declining aircraft manufacturing capabilities of the germans.

 

5) The forward fighter sweep, catching Luftwaffe fighters upon takeoff

 

 

I'm sick of people bashing the Germans, or any nation for that matter. People dispute topics like this one because the Air war is primarily what everyone talks about on here, I could argue just the same that the Air war during the battle of France was won by Numbers and tactics, not necessarily better machines.

 

Now, the teiring issue, specifically the German teiring issue. Whilst I find it a bit strange for the German jets to be facing obviously superior Korean War jets, I don’t have a problem. I don’t have a problem because, from what I know, the game has only been developed to 20%, according to the developers anyway, but I believe them.

 

Remember back to 1.29? Remember this Dora plague?

 

It would almost sound like a game emulated holocaust to a new player the way some of you describe it. The D13, ahhh those were the days.

 

Easy kills…

 

For the yanks and Brits that is.

 

For those ex Dora pilots out there, remember how easy it was? you’d climb to about 2500m, and cruise into battle, blasting away, leaving burning wreckages in your path, winning the game 95% of the time.

 

I remember it.

 

I also remember this one game; I was sitting on the runway in my P39, with a lone CY6 bloke next to me in the same aircraft. I remember seeing our pilots lock eyes, and nod. We both climbed to the side and at about 4k altitude I swooped, closely followed by him.

 

I got three on that swoop, so did he. I got another D13 on my zoom climb.

 

We swooped once more, with four distracted Dora’s going after low flying spits and Thunderbolts.

 

That was a day to remember, I got 6 and he got 7.

 

No, The D13 wasn’t overpowered; especially considering two tier six aircraft could take out a team of 13 tier 14 Dora’s.

 

The problem was matchmaking and allied tactics. When you fly low against FW190’s you can; possibly expect to win, and this, coupled with poor matchmaking was the seed which sprouted the dreaded “Dora Swarm”.

 

Before I finish, I’d like to address one more issue, the players that tell Gaijin how to run things. Now I’m all for helping them out with new information and stats, but when you start telling them how much of a bad job you think their doing and how xxxx the FM’s are then you’re really only impeding progress. It surprises me how many people have become “experts” in WW2 aircraft since downloading the game, knowing their every flight characteristic and statistics without any previous experience in flight at all. The History channel and Wikipedia does not give a balanced view, I’ll leave it there. I’m sure a pilot of a WW2 plane would struggle to give you a perfect description of the flight model himself, let alone the Developers team, working off scraps of paper and recovered records of the planes performance. I personally think that they are doing a great job, considering the circumstances. It just seems very selfish to complain to them about not accurately modeling a game which they let you enjoy for free. They’ve got to tinker and experiment, and we’re going to have mistaken but when you can do what they do, then you may start loud mouthing about their efforts.

 

So, long post I know, And as more Issues arise, I will address them, hopefully this gets pinned, for new user’s looking for explanations, guidance, a friendly conversation, who knows. Maybe we can change this game to be something marvelous, something to be admired, where people get along, people have fun, where you enjoy having a chat with another player on the flight to battle.

 

Maybe even a game free from excessive, unjustified complaining…

 

I guess we can only hope.

 

But until then or until the next patch I’ll be missing from the sky’s. I’ve found people treatment of one another infuriating, unnecessary, and plain vindictive.

 

That along with the increasing input from players, they seem to complain and complain until they achieve what they want, only to complain about that soon after…

 

So this is Good luck and Goodbye, hope my tipsy novel sparked some ideas out there.

No the problem when people tell gaijin their not doing the facts right are due to the facts that they freaking go by Soviet data which was incredibly flawed and extradordinarily progandic they wont take data from the reports from THE US NAVY OR AIR FORCE ON THEIR OWN FUCKING PLANES but somehow they Soviets knew every single damn detail of the planes? its bs which explains why many planes not just Russian over perform and many others under perform. Regardless you are entirely on the other parts even I as a Rager knows that but meh,

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See how pathetic it looks.

 

Overcome adversity and grow a pair.

 

YOU are the problem

 

YOU can be the solution

 

We kind of are trying to be the solution. But if no one wants to listen to us, so be it.

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  • 1 year later...

Why is this sticky'd? It's just some dude stroking his ego...

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  • 5 months later...
On 23/08/2013 at 07:49, Lt_Jack said:

'P40 OP'

 

'TA 152 OP'

 

'SPITFIRE MK IX OP'

 

'K4 OP'

 

'G2 OP'

 

'F4 OP'

 

'B17 OP'

 

'N1K OP'

 

'F8F OP'

 

'DORAS OP'

 

'VAMPIRE OP'

 

METEORS OP'

 

'A20G OP'

 

'ME 163 OP'

 

'MIG 15 OP'

 

RUSSIANS OP

 

GERMANS OP

 

YANKS OP

 

JAPANESE OP

 

BRITS OP

 

Hey, how'd you get a hold of Verlisify's new playlist?!

 

 

But seriously, good stuff. 5 year old post and it's still relevant. I know I'm def guilty of losing my temper at times, and frankly acting pretty entitled. To anyone wondering why this is stickied: sportsmanship. This is a game, not a war. We are pilots, not killers, not bandits. We do not need to shoot down an aircraft that is attempting to crash land in a field; it is rude both to the enemy and to your allies. We do not need to hunt players down when they are trying to limp their crippled plane, gear down, to touchdown on the airstrip. 

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