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Ship Anti-Air Radars: Current List of Vehicles, plus Tactics, Tips, and Procedures (for both defending and attacking)


Bruce_R1
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Okay, so let's talk ship air radars...

 

All models are imperfect, but War Thunder's model for ship-borne air search and tracking radars is slowly coming along. It has some specific characteristics that players who understand them can exploit. This post has information that could be useful for both air defenders and attackers.

 

There are three types of air radar system in War Thunder currently.

 

Search-only (S) radar systems are detection-only. They will indicate approaching aircraft, single or multiple, but not allow you to do much about it. Several Italian WW2 bluewater ships and some lighter ships have this type. (The table at the end of this article indicates which ships have each of these types.)

 

Track-only (T) radar systems can give radar lead indication to an already visually acquired target. In AB this allows effective human engagement beyond 2500m and in RB gives the only lead indication for air targets you currently get. There are currently 4 vessels with this type of radar: Asheville, the new premium Folaga, and everyone's two favourite coastal premiums, the Douglas and PG02. Track-only systems are indicated in game by the small radar circle in the third-person view, which only expands to a full circle once there is a target to track. Track radar systems only show the tracked target on the radar display.

 

Search-and-Track or Search-Acquire-Track (SAT) radar systems combine the above two capabilities. The rotating search radar gives 360-degree detection, and Identify Friend or Foe (IFF) recognition as well. Both visually and radar-acquired targets can be converted to a track (only one track at a time for all current radars) which can then gives that lead indication. Untracked targets are indicated on the display by horizontal bars, and tracked targets by a circle connected with a dashed line, with the abbreviation "TRK" above the display. All current radars can only be in "SRC" (Search) mode, where you can see multiple targets on the display, or "TRK" (Track) mode, where you can only see the one you are tracking.

 

Acquisition (the change from a searched target to a tracked target) can only occur in the elevation zone indicated on the radar display. For most ship radars, this is currently a 34 degree arc. Once converted to a track in this acquisition zone, a target stays tracked until it passes below terrain or into the radar's dead zone (see diagram below), the ship or all its tracking radar capabilities is destroyed, the plane is destroyed or the track is dropped manually. Once tracked, a target that goes out of the acquisition zone will stay tracked. There is no visual indication of where the upper limit of this arc is, currently, however (the green bars in 3rd-person view that indicate where the radar is zipping around in a circle are not actually at 34 degrees; in 3rd person view it's closer to 25 degrees, and in binos view it's even lower). Targets above the acquisition zone limit can still be seen on the radar search display. Two track-only ships, Asheville and Douglas, can acquire tracks from visual acquisition at essentially any elevation their main gun can bear, all the rest are limited to making new tracks below 34 degrees (or whatever their listed azimuth is). Some Italian ships in particular have reduced acquisition arcs, indicated by the number other than "34" on their radar display. Two British ships (Norfolk and Tiger) have an older version of the radar, where the search radar field for detection is 45 degrees in elevation, but targets can still only be acquired in the lower 35 degrees (they also have a significantly slower radar sweep rate).

 

Spoiler

830706438_radardiagram.gif.921571279da1d

 

The dead zone for most radars is the rear sextant (30 degrees either side of the ship's stern). Any tracked targets passing into this zone are dropped, and search targets in that zone cannot be converted to tracks. Dead zone is indicated on most radar displays by an unshaded portion. Currently only three ships, HMS Tiger, HMS Norfolk and PG02, do not have any dead zone, I believe. Also, several of the first radar ships brought into the game do not have an unshaded portion for their dead zone on their radar display, although their dead zone in the rear sextant is in fact still there. Most S-only radars do not appear to have a dead zone.

 

Shells. Radar is most effective in combination with variable time (VT) fuzed shells. VT shells are the only AA weapon with reliable effectiveness, either with human or AA gunners beyond the 2500m (8200 feet) bubble. Nearly all SAT-equipped ships have VT once spaded. A small number of ships have Time Fuze (TF) as an intermediate ammo on the way to VT or as their only AA ammo; this ammo type also benefits from a radar track (in fact it's pretty much the only time TF is useful at all, currently), but VT is still superior. Currently only one non-premium/market ship, HMCS Terra Nova, comes with VT as stock ammunition. AA machine guns and autocannon also benefit from the lead indication a radar lock provides using other ammo types at closer ranges.

 

Buttons: To use radar effectively, you want to have 4 buttons set in control.

Turn Radar On/Off. If a search radar is damaged and repaired, you may need to turn it on again after the repair is done.
Radar Scale Toggle. While you rarely need more than the 10 km scale currently, the ability to reach out farther if a target is running away could very rarely be useful. Probably the least important button
Change Radar Target. When you have multiple targets in SRC mode, this allows you to toggle between them. Your current primary target is indicated by vertical bars either side of the horizontal line
Lock Radar Target. This converts a selected target in your binos to a radar track to give you lead indication.

 

How to gain a track: A mistake I see a lot of people make in naval is trying to lock air targets from third-person view. This is not efficient. Sometimes it works, but not often, and only at very low elevations (not the full 34 degree range you actually have to work with). Instead, what you want to do is select the plane target visually, THEN go to binos view, and THEN with the target in the centre of your crosshairs, hit target lock. This works through your entire acquisition zone. You can then go back out of binos to third person or do something else and the target will stay tracked.

 

Visual representation. SRC capabilities are generally represented on the ship model by one or more Search Radar Antennas (SRA). TRK capabilities by one or more Tracking Radar Directors (TRDs). These capabilities can be knocked out with damage. Multiple SRA or TRD has no obvious benefit other than resistance to damage. Notably if SRAs are knocked out or turned off, the tracking capabilities on an SAT radar from the binoculars will be maintained, even though there's no spinning radar display. Many ships do not have all their radar capabilities fully modelled yet, presumably meaning their radar systems can't be knocked out by damage currently.

 

Radar Ship Tactics: It's important that radar ships pick up incoming targets while they're still in the acquisition zone; if they get close and stay high before you set their track they can pass above that zone and essentially dwell there in greater safety from your fire until they want to come down. Most aircraft spawn points in naval maps are 7,000 m from the centre of the map, and 3-8000' up. While this is well within the 34 degree zone at 5000m distance or greater, if they climb as they approach they can rapidly pass out of your acquisition zone (again, unless you hooked them already, in which case the track is maintained). The 2.5-5.7.5-10 km range circles on your display are important here. You basically want to be picking up targets on the third or even fourth circle from the centre. By the time they're in the first circle, they may be too high and no longer trackable. 

 

Anti-radar Tactics: Aircraft pilots can often avoid being engaged by a single radar equipped ship by climbing from spawn, especially if that ship is otherwise engaged and can't pick up acquisition on you fast enough. Climbing to 9000 feet before closing within 5 km of a target ship will keep that ship from acquiring a track on you after that point because of the vertical arc limitation. Multiple radar/VT equipped ships can complicate this picture as someone else farther away from your target could still acquire and possibly engage you even though the ship you're currently above cannot, of course. On some maps, terrain masking flight is also an option for evading radar, but getting above the acquisition zone can also be 100% reliable, depending on how many radar ships you're facing. Once you're out of every radar ship's acquisition zone and can stay at 9000 feet or above, you're basically immune from all but lucky fire from the ship you're above, except from other planes. A good trick is to check when you spawn in who else is up with you: if there's another friendly plane closer to the battle than you, odds are that plane is being tracked or any radar ships will be trying to acquire it, meaning you are free to get out of the acquisition zone so long as you are not the closest air target. If you're first in the air though, and facing a radar threat, you might want to try something else, such as diving and terrain masking. Remember though, if they did manage to acquire you before you climbed out of the zone, you are tracked, only passing into the tracking ship's dead zone will work reliably to shake that track.

 

You can limit the number of radar ships you're dealing with by choice of Battle Rating. The lowest ships with SAT capability and VT are three Japanese coastal vessels at 3.3. Many nations have a radar capability between 3.7 and 4.7. At 5.0, the only ships currently are three Russian destroyers, and above that there's a fairly large gap, with only HMS Norfolk and the rare HMS Tiger at 5.7, 3 large capital ships at 6, two at 6.3 and one each at 6.7, and 7.0. While that will no doubt change, the lack of any radar ship on a side can limit human shooters to point defence engagement of aircraft in their 2500m (in AB) bubbles (although obviously within those bubbles there can be a LOT of AA fire), so at BR 6.0-7.0 it is potentially more possible than at mid-BRs right now, especially when the other side is down on ship numbers in late game, to keep from being killed by VT at altitude. Obviously knowing or tracking what other ships a side has currently has value in this regard as well. Ship recognition helps: taking out the radar ship first if you know which one it is can make things easier for other planes. Knowing which maps have higher spawn altitudes may govern your choice of tactics here as well.

 

So that wraps up the ship AA radar model as of the Sky Guardians update. It will no doubt change as new ships are added, so if you're reading this a few months or years later try to keep that in mind. Good hunting all.

List of All WT Radar Ships (March/23): 

 

Spoiler

RadarlistMar23.jpg.41119444d6a78c296ad35

 

Previous naval guides:
Guide to RB Aiming
Snap Shooting and Lead Estimation
Main and Auxiliary Shooting With One Button

 

 

 

Edited by Bruce_R1
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On 11/03/2023 at 04:17, Bruce_R1 said:

Okay, so let's talk ship air radars...

 

All models are imperfect, but War Thunder's model for ship-borne air search and tracking radars is slowly coming along. It has some specific characteristics that players who understand them can exploit. This post has information that could be useful for both air defenders and attackers.

 

There are three types of air radar system in War Thunder currently.

 

Search-only (S) radar systems are detection-only. They will indicate approaching aircraft, single or multiple, but not allow you to do much about it. Several Italian WW2 bluewater ships and some lighter ships have this type. (The table at the end of this article indicates which ships have each of these types.)

 

Track-only (T) radar systems can give radar lead indication to an already visually acquired target. In AB this allows effective human engagement beyond 2500m and in RB gives the only lead indication for air targets you currently get. There are currently 4 vessels with this type of radar: Asheville, the new premium Folaga, and everyone's two favourite coastal premiums, the Douglas and PG02. Track-only systems are indicated in game by the small radar circle in the third-person view, which only expands to a full circle once there is a target to track. Track radar systems only show the tracked target on the radar display.

 

Search-and-Track or Search-Acquire-Track (SAT) radar systems combine the above two capabilities. The rotating search radar gives 360-degree detection, and Identify Friend or Foe (IFF) recognition as well. Both visually and radar-acquired targets can be converted to a track (only one track at a time for all current radars) which can then gives that lead indication. Untracked targets are indicated on the display by horizontal bars, and tracked targets by a circle connected with a dashed line, with the abbreviation "TRK" above the display. All current radars can only be in "SRC" (Search) mode, where you can see multiple targets on the display, or "TRK" (Track) mode, where you can only see the one you are tracking.

 

Acquisition (the change from a searched target to a tracked target) can only occur in the elevation zone indicated on the radar display. For most ship radars, this is currently a 34 degree arc. Once converted to a track in this acquisition zone, a target stays tracked until it passes below terrain or into the radar's dead zone (see diagram below), the ship or all its tracking radar capabilities is destroyed, the plane is destroyed or the track is dropped manually. Once tracked, a target that goes out of the acquisition zone will stay tracked. There is no visual indication of where the upper limit of this arc is, currently, however (the green bars in 3rd-person view that indicate where the radar is zipping around in a circle are not actually at 34 degrees; in 3rd person view it's closer to 25 degrees, and in binos view it's even lower). Targets above the acquisition zone limit can still be seen on the radar search display. Two track-only ships, Asheville and Douglas, can acquire tracks from visual acquisition at essentially any elevation their main gun can bear, all the rest are limited to making new tracks below 34 degrees (or whatever their listed azimuth is). Some Italian ships in particular have reduced acquisition arcs, indicated by the number other than "34" on their radar display.

 

Hide contents

 

The dead zone for most radars is the rear sextant (30 degrees either side of the ship's stern). Any tracked targets passing into this zone are dropped, and search targets in that zone cannot be converted to tracks. Dead zone is indicated on most radar displays by an unshaded portion. Currently only two ships, HMS Tiger and PG02, do not have any dead zone, I believe. Also, several of the first radar ships brought into the game do not have an unshaded portion for their dead zone on their radar display, although their dead zone in the rear sextant is in fact still there.

 

Shells. Radar is most effective in combination with variable time (VT) fuzed shells. VT shells are the only AA weapon with reliable effectiveness, either with human or AA gunners beyond the 2500m (8200 feet) bubble. Nearly all SAT-equipped ships have VT once spaded. A small number of ships have Time Fuze (TF) as an intermediate ammo on the way to VT or as their only AA ammo; this ammo type also benefits from a radar track (in fact it's pretty much the only time TF is useful at all, currently), but VT is still superior. Currently only one non-premium ship, HMCS Terra Nova, comes with VT as stock ammunition. AA machine guns and autocannon also benefit from the lead indication a radar lock provides using other ammo types at closer ranges.

 

Buttons: To use radar effectively, you want to have 4 buttons set in control.

Turn Radar On/Off. If a search radar is damaged and repaired, you may need to turn it on again after the repair is done.
Radar Scale Toggle. While you rarely need more than the 10 km scale currently, the ability to reach out farther if a target is running away could very rarely be useful. Probably the least important button
Change Radar Target. When you have multiple targets in SRC mode, this allows you to toggle between them. Your current primary target is indicated by vertical bars either side of the horizontal line
Lock Radar Target. This converts a selected target in your binos to a radar track to give you lead indication.

 

How to gain a track: A mistake I see a lot of people make in naval is trying to lock air targets from third-person view. This is not efficient. Sometimes it works, but not often, and only at very low elevations (not the full 34 degree range you actually have to work with). Instead, what you want to do is select the plane target visually, then to binos view, and then with the target in the centre of your crosshairs, hit target lock. This works through your entire acquisition zone. You can then go back out of binos to third person or do something else and the target will stay tracked.

 

Visual representation. SRC capabilities are generally represented on the ship model by one or more Search Radar Antennas (SRA). TRK capabilities by one or more Tracking Radar Dishes (TRDs). These capabilities can be knocked out with damage. Multiple SRA or TRD has no obvious benefit other than resistance to damage. Notably if SRAs are knocked out or turned off, the tracking capabilities on an SAT radar from the binoculars will still work, even though there's no spinning radar display. Many ships do not have all their radar capabilities fully modelled yet, presumably meaning their radar systems can't be knocked out by damage currently.

 

Radar Ship Tactics: It's important that radar ships pick up incoming targets while they're still in the acquisition zone; if they get close and stay high before you set their track they can pass above that zone and essentially dwell there in relative safety from your fire until they want to come down. Most aircraft spawn points in naval maps are 7,000 m from the centre of the map, and 3-8000' up. While this is well within the 34 degree zone at 5000m distance or greater, if they climb as they approach they can rapidly pass out of your acquisition zone (again, unless you hooked them already, in which case the track is maintained). The 2.5-5.7.5-10 km range circles on your display are important here. You basically want to be picking up targets on the third or even fourth circle from the centre. By the time they're in the first circle, they may be too high and no longer trackable. 

 

Anti-radar Tactics: Aircraft pilots can often avoid being engaged by a single radar equipped ship by climbing from spawn, especially if that ship is otherwise engaged and can't pick up acquisition on you fast enough. Climbing to 9000 feet before closing within 5 km of a target ship will keep that ship from acquiring a track on you after that point. Multiple radar/VT equipped ships can complicate this picture as someone else farther away from your target could still acquire and possibly engage you even though the ship you're currently above cannot, of course. On some maps, terrain masking flight is also an option for evading radar, but getting above the acquisition zone can also be 100% reliable, depending on how many radar ships you're facing. Once you're out of every radar ship's acquisition zone and can stay at 9000 feet or above, you're basically immune from all but lucky fire from the ship you're above, except from other planes. A good trick is to check when you spawn in who else is up with you: if there's another friendly plane closer to the battle than you, odds are that plane is being tracked or any radar ships will be trying to acquire it, meaning you are free to get out of the acquisition zone so long as you are not the closest air target. If you're first in the air though, and facing a radar threat, you might want to try something else, such as diving and terrain masking. Remember though, if they did manage to acquire you before you climbed out of the zone, you are tracked, only passing into the tracking ship's dead zone will work reliably to shake that track.

 

You can limit the number of radar ships you're dealing with by choice of Battle Rating. The lowest ships with SAT capability and VT are three Japanese coastal vessels at 3.3. Many nations have a radar capability between 3.7 and 4.7. At 5.0, the only ships currently are two Russian destroyers, and above that there's a fairly large gap, with only the rare HMS Tiger at 5.7, 3 large capital ships at 6, and one each at 6.3, 6.7, and 7.0. While that will no doubt change, the lack of any radar ship on a side essentially limits all that side to point defence engagement of aircraft in their 2500m bubbles (although obviously within those bubbles there can be a LOT of AA fire), so at BR 6.0-7.0 it is potentially more possible than at mid-BRs right now, especially when the other side is down on ship numbers in late game, to keep from being killed by VT at altitude. Obviously knowing or tracking what other ships a side has currently has value in this regard as well. Ship recognition helps: taking out the radar ship first if you know which one it is can make things easier for other planes. Knowing which maps have higher spawn altitudes may govern your choice of tactics here as well.

 

So that wraps up the ship AA radar model as of the Sky Guardians update. It will no doubt change as new ships are added, so if you're reading this a few months or years later try to keep that in mind. Good hunting all.

List of All WT Radar Ships (March/23): 

 

Reveal hidden contents

 

Previous naval guides:
Guide to RB Aiming
Snap Shooting and Lead Estimation
Main and Auxiliary Shooting With One Button

 

 

 

 

Are you sure the AI AA bubble is only 2500m? I think I've seen AI gunners engage far beyond that.

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10 hours ago, kkang2828 said:

 

Are you sure the AI AA bubble is only 2500m? I think I've seen AI gunners engage far beyond that.

I don't know if we've ever been told what that distance is set to for naval AA AI currently. 2500m is when lead indication for humans starts in AB, which does affect AA accuracy significantly of course. It works here as an approximation of the real value, absent better data.

 

The important thing here is the AI gunner can't acquire a radar track on their own as far as we know, so if you can get out of the radar acquisition zone they shouldn't have that enhanced lead indication on you at any altitude. Otherwise the system wouldn't make any sense, if AI gunners could shoot better without a radar track than they could with one, at targets that the human hadn't acquired. In that case having a smaller acquisition zone (or no radar at all) could actually make your AA better, and I don't think that's likely.

 

Someone could probably refine whatever the AA cutoff actually is in custom battle testing. Might give that a shot later.

Edited by Bruce_R1
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If they're willing to have search-only radar (of pretty questionable usefulness, really), I don't know why they don't add it to more ships, since pretty much every late (or even early in some nations) WW2 ship had the capability of at least detect aircraft.

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4 hours ago, Brenok said:

If they're willing to have search-only radar (of pretty questionable usefulness, really), I don't know why they don't add it to more ships, since pretty much every late (or even early in some nations) WW2 ship had the capability of at least detect aircraft.

Agreed, Britain in particular seems a little underrepresented here. Like you said, not really a very useful feature though.

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On 13/03/2023 at 07:57, Bruce_R1 said:

Agreed, Britain in particular seems a little underrepresented here. Like you said, not really a very useful feature though.

 

You seem to have missed Norfolk, Aoba, Neustrashimyy, and Newport News there. But I agree Britain is still underrepresented, with Diana not getting radar despite being from 1958. :(. Germany lacks radar ships as well, but then again they don't have any post-war bluewater ships.

Edited by kkang2828
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On 12/03/2023 at 23:02, Bruce_R1 said:

The important thing here is the AI gunner can't acquire a radar track on their own as far as we know, so if you can get out of the radar acquisition zone they shouldn't have that enhanced lead indication on you at any altitude. Otherwise the system wouldn't make any sense, if AI gunners could shoot better without a radar track than they could with one, at targets that the human hadn't acquired. In that case having a smaller acquisition zone (or no radar at all) could actually make your AA better, and I don't think that's likely.

 

In my experience, AI gunners don't care about radar at all. There's no difference in the AI gunners' accuracy and range before or after the player manually acquires radar lock. With a high level crew on any ship with or without radar, the AI gunners are pretty accurate at leading aircraft at long ranges with VT shells, even if the human player does nothing. But they need some time to get a correct lead and do not react well to target course changes, making human-controlled radar-directed fire still advantageous for long range AA duty. At lower crew levels, the AI gunners cannot be trusted with long~medium range AA fire at all.

 

And I believe the AI gunners' engagement ranges are defined by the caliber of the guns they're controlling, though I don't remember the exact values. 

 

Edited by kkang2828
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7 hours ago, kkang2828 said:

 

You seem to have missed Norfolk, Aoba, Neustrashimyy, and Newport News there. But I agree Britain is still underrepresented, with Diana not getting radar despite being from 1958. :(. Germany lacks radar ships as well, but then again they don't have any post-war bluewater ships.

Appreciate the correction. List updated.

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On 14/03/2023 at 03:45, kkang2828 said:

In my experience, AI gunners don't care about radar at all. There's no difference in the AI gunners' accuracy and range before or after the player manually acquires radar lock. With a high level crew on any ship with or without radar, the AI gunners are pretty accurate at leading aircraft at long ranges with VT shells, even if the human player does nothing. But they need some time to get a correct lead and do not react well to target course changes, making human-controlled radar-directed fire still advantageous for long range AA duty. At lower crew levels, the AI gunners cannot be trusted with long~medium range AA fire at all.

 

And I believe the AI gunners' engagement ranges are defined by the caliber of the guns they're controlling, though I don't remember the exact values. 

Yeah, I wasn't as clear as I could have been there. AI gunnery isn't affected by radar. 

AI gunnery (whether on Gaijin bots or tertiary armament on player-controlled ships) has a set slant range by caliber. "Big sky, small bullet" math says accuracy diminishes by the square with distance even if you fly straight. Time of flight and decreased predictivity is also a factor, at 2500m you're already talking 3 second ToF, so even minor constant path deflections will increase that something closer to the cube of distance.

 

I ran a Hawker Hunter around individual AI ships in custom battles to bait fire and get approximate some slant ranges, just for reference. I believe these are fairly accurate to game values, I'd put the +/- at 500 ft:

 

25mm Type 96: 8000'

20mm/65 Breda: 9000'
30mm AK 230: 13000'

40mm/60 Bofors: 15000'

3 in Mark 10: 21000'

4.5 in QF Mark IV: 34000'
100mm/47 OTO: 40000 ft+

Edited by Bruce_R1
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As a britain main, I dont really care that radar doesnt do much, even just a little extra early warning for incoming air attacks would be great, but still massively annoys me that Britain just doesnt have any. I have every ship researched (not used all yet) but have yet to see any with radar, despite it being one of their most powerful assets during the war

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7 hours ago, Morvran_ said:

As a britain main, I dont really care that radar doesnt do much, even just a little extra early warning for incoming air attacks would be great, but still massively annoys me that Britain just doesnt have any. I have every ship researched (not used all yet) but have yet to see any with radar, despite it being one of their most powerful assets during the war

 

As the chart says, for Britain, Norfolk and a few high rank coastals have radar. There really should be more though.

Edited by kkang2828
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11 hours ago, kkang2828 said:

 

As the chart says, for Britain, Norfolk and a few high rank coastals have radar. There really should be more though.

Yeah, Norfolk is one of the few that i've not used yet and not really tocuhed coastal much either, gunna max that next

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  • 3 weeks later...

@Bruce_R1 Any plans to copy this, and/or your other articles onto the official wiki? There are lots of air and ground guides on the wiki, but very few naval ones. Your articles would be great additions.

Edited by kkang2828
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2 hours ago, kkang2828 said:

@Bruce_R1 Any plans to copy this, and/or your other articles onto the official wiki? There are lots of air and ground guides on the wiki, but very few naval ones. Your articles would be great additions.

If one of the Wiki moderators wanted to DM me about it, I wouldn't say no. I'm working on two other mini-guides now on and off, and the aiming one really needs a full update.

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19 minutes ago, Bruce_R1 said:

If one of the Wiki moderators wanted to DM me about it, I wouldn't say no. I'm working on two other mini-guides now on and off, and the aiming one really needs a full update.

Anyone can edit wiki. Mods only need to approve the edit.

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13 hours ago, Bruce_R1 said:

If one of the Wiki moderators wanted to DM me about it, I wouldn't say no. I'm working on two other mini-guides now on and off, and the aiming one really needs a full update.

 

I'm pretty sure the wiki mods don't actively go around the forums looking for articles to add to the wiki. If you want to add new articles, I'd suggest contacting the wiki mods first and not waiting for them to contact you. But it's your choice I guess. I might try directing their attention to your articles later. Would you be okay with that?

 

Also it would be nice if you could create a post in the naval academy section with all the links to your guide articles, and ask a forum mod to pin it.

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