Please, add Helis in Air simulator battle.

[YUi_Takamura 652]

I really don't know how to deal with those ground targets, especially SPAAs, when I stay over 1.2 mach over 2km alt, those SPAA still could kill me, and I have no idea how to use cannon kill them (F16 ADF or mig23mla). considering Helis PVE's earning system is really bad, I think adding helis will solve this issue.

[Schindibee 2,856]

If you're in a F-16A ADV or another dedicated fighter, you don't deal with them, as this is not your role or job.

 

If you want to tackle those targets, fly a dedicated attacker/bomber or a multirole aircraft.

 

But then, the ideo of helis in Sim Ec is an interesting one, but probably difficult to implement: Where would you take off/spawn? Where would you land once the ground battles is over and disappears? How to deal with the fat that you are little else than cannon fodder for anything else that flies?

 

 

[ᅟﾠㅤᅠ 27]

Everything is fine right now, just what the partner says, each one has their role.

 

[Adr_Farling 264]

19 minutes ago, Schindibee said:

If you're in a F-16A ADV or another dedicated fighter, you don't deal with them, as this is not your role or job.

 

If you want to tackle those targets, fly a dedicated attacker/bomber or a multirole aircraft.

 

But then, the ideo of helis in Sim Ec is an interesting one, but probably difficult to implement: Where would you take off/spawn? Where would you land once the ground battles is over and disappears? How to deal with the fat that you are little else than cannon fodder for anything else that flies?

 

 

Heli pads could spawn behind the ground battlefields.

 

Also it would be really cool if they added a dynamic battle system where the battle doesn‘t just disappear after all enemy/friendly vehicles got destroyed. Kinda like in Heli EC where the battle advances/retreats. So the helis wouldn‘t have to land and respawn somewhere else, but could just rearm and get into battle again.

 

Tbh I wouldn‘t call helis cannon fodder. Just look at things like the Ka-50s with these Vikhrs (I fckn hate them). Helis wouldn‘t just be able to defend themselves, they would also be way harder to detect compared to ground realistic. If aircrafts try to find them with their radar, they‘d notice via RWR and since most top-tier helis have MAW and radar missiles (for some reason I don‘t understand) don‘t work against them, they‘d be pretty protected from missiles (IR and SARH at least). So the only way to kill them is by gun (or by ARHs, but haven‘t tried that yet) which is harder in sim than in ground RB. Furthermore, you could call attackers cannon fodder aswell since they are not as effective in attacking aircrafts/defending against enemy attacks as fighter aircrafts are.

 

Earlier helis would be a different story though… however top tier helis would be quite viable and would make for an interesting addition.

 

Edit: AI helis would be also quite nice to have in Sim.

 

Edited February 13 by Adr_Farling

[Batwingsix 719]

1 hour ago, Schindibee said:

If you're in a F-16A ADV or another dedicated fighter, you don't deal with them, as this is not your role or job.

 

If you want to tackle those targets, fly a dedicated attacker/bomber or a multirole aircraft.

 

But then, the ideo of helis in Sim Ec is an interesting one, but probably difficult to implement: Where would you take off/spawn? Where would you land once the ground battles is over and disappears? How to deal with the fat that you are little else than cannon fodder for anything else that flies?

 

 

 

The same place the AI ones did for the whole year or so that they would when helicopters were added to the game and bugged out into being AI controllable vehicles in sim: At the normal airfield... which conveniently is when we all started asking to allow them to be in our lineups so we have a mode they may actually be enjoyable to play in. There is no need to give them an easy mode to have a close spawn except maybe on the massive EC maps as maybe small FOB's (and I would be primarily switch to flying rotary in sim myself so no insult to heli pilots). 

 

They wouldnt really be fodder for other aircraft though since they are small in comparison, very slow in comparison, and wouldnt be required to land in battles to aid in them, instead they can function just like normal aircraft except with standoff capabilities to support the team by removing the god mode auto aim SPAA that spawns in them and in convoys... which is still a massive problem in EC. Plus, if they are BR'd correctly you can keep the all aspect missile loaded heli's out of the 8.0 - 9.x branches so they arent brokenly good and still more than usable (outside of the poor UH-1's which have no control dampening and unless someone is using rudder pedals can become an unholy handful to fly...)

 

When EC bugged out and had AI spawning in them constantly it was actually entertaining to try to combat them because you randomly get close to one on accident and then you are prowling the ground to find it to engage it, not to mention they could offer even more objectives than we already have now like a cap zone which could be a "rescue the downed pilot", where depending on what teams helicopter gets there first (would have to be a utility style such as a UH-1 or another with extra seating aka: not a dedicated gunship) can 'cap' to retrieve the pilot / POW and return to their airfield for a small ticket drain on the other team.

Edited February 13 by Batwingsix

[YUi_Takamura 652]

2 hours ago, Adr_Farling said:

Tbh I wouldn‘t call helis cannon fodder. Just look at things like the Ka-50s with these Vikhrs (I fckn hate them). Helis wouldn‘t just be able to defend themselves, they would also be way harder to detect compared to ground realistic. If aircrafts try to find them with their radar, they‘d notice via RWR and since most top-tier helis have MAW and radar missiles (for some reason I don‘t understand) don‘t work against them, they‘d be pretty protected from missiles (IR and SARH at least). So the only way to kill them is by gun (or by ARHs, but haven‘t tried that yet) which is harder in sim than in ground RB. Furthermore, you could call attackers cannon fodder aswell since they are not as effective in attacking aircrafts/defending against enemy attacks as fighter aircrafts are.

yea, Helis AAM is also very dangrous in this mode, because it's really hard to notice, such as TY90, so it's really hard to say helis cannon fodder.

[cpt_nosh 776]

AAA is ridicuously overpowered, mostly when you don't have TV F&F missiles you can fire from 6km+ away. Sidam will snipe you from 3km and instantly kill you. No matter how fast or if you use countermeasures.

[Sputnik_77 1,563]

Helis in EC abuse scenario:

 

A player takes off in his Ka-52 on a hilly map, from a forward operation base. He skips battle and heads low straight to enemy airfield. He hovers 5m over ground 10km away from runway... and vikrhs the *** out of taking off players. 

[Batwingsix 719]

On 18/02/2023 at 13:20, Sputnik_77 said:

Helis in EC abuse scenario:

 

A player takes off in his Ka-52 on a hilly map, from a forward operation base. He skips battle and heads low straight to enemy airfield. He hovers 5m over ground 10km away from runway... and vikrhs the *** out of taking off players. 

 

And then a player can be like "oh yeah, I have two other airfields I can go to..."

 

If they keep true to the BR brackets they use now, it will be facing jets with plenty of good radars which can see it, and Fox 1 and Fox 3 missiles that will be a threat to it. Nobody said helicopters have to have some sort of forward base, even if they do on the largest maps it will still require them to fly for a while to get into any sort of position. Mix in the random SPAA that is placed all over maps anyway which people ignore because they are going mach 1+ on the deck which now have a much slower target to shoot at.

 

If it becomes problematic, then they can push out an outer ring of airfield defense.

[Lieutenant_Camel 622]

 

On 13/02/2023 at 17:09, Schindibee said:

If you're in a F-16A ADV or another dedicated fighter, you don't deal with them, as this is not your role or job.

 

If you want to tackle those targets, fly a dedicated attacker/bomber or a multirole aircraft.

 

But then, the ideo of helis in Sim Ec is an interesting one, but probably difficult to implement: Where would you take off/spawn? Where would you land once the ground battles is over and disappears? How to deal with the fat that you are little else than cannon fodder for anything else that flies?

 

 

there are always possibilities.

 

- First, take the wishes of the English-speaking Communuty seriously and pass them on to the developers as CM.

 

- secondly, 99% of all Sim players ask on their knees for changes to the SPAA.

 

- thirdly, forward heliports could, for example, temporarily appear when the own team has completed a task ... there are so many possibilities. all the developers need are some good ideas in their head. the heads of many players are full of wishes and good ideas

On 13/02/2023 at 17:28, Adr_Farling said:

Heli pads could spawn behind the ground battlefields.

 

Also it would be really cool if they added a dynamic battle system where the battle doesn‘t just disappear after all enemy/friendly vehicles got destroyed. Kinda like in Heli EC where the battle advances/retreats. So the helis wouldn‘t have to land and respawn somewhere else, but could just rearm and get into battle again.

 

Tbh I wouldn‘t call helis cannon fodder. Just look at things like the Ka-50s with these Vikhrs (I fckn hate them). Helis wouldn‘t just be able to defend themselves, they would also be way harder to detect compared to ground realistic. If aircrafts try to find them with their radar, they‘d notice via RWR and since most top-tier helis have MAW and radar missiles (for some reason I don‘t understand) don‘t work against them, they‘d be pretty protected from missiles (IR and SARH at least). So the only way to kill them is by gun (or by ARHs, but haven‘t tried that yet) which is harder in sim than in ground RB. Furthermore, you could call attackers cannon fodder aswell since they are not as effective in attacking aircrafts/defending against enemy attacks as fighter aircrafts are.

 

Earlier helis would be a different story though… however top tier helis would be quite viable and would make for an interesting addition.

 

Edit: AI helis would be also quite nice to have in Sim.

 

On 13/02/2023 at 18:59, Batwingsix said:

The same place the AI ones did for the whole year or so that they would when helicopters were added to the game and bugged out into being AI controllable vehicles in sim: At the normal airfield... which conveniently is when we all started asking to allow them to be in our lineups so we have a mode they may actually be enjoyable to play in. There is no need to give them an easy mode to have a close spawn except maybe on the massive EC maps as maybe small FOB's (and I would be primarily switch to flying rotary in sim myself so no insult to heli pilots). 

 

They wouldnt really be fodder for other aircraft though since they are small in comparison, very slow in comparison, and wouldnt be required to land in battles to aid in them, instead they can function just like normal aircraft except with standoff capabilities to support the team by removing the god mode auto aim SPAA that spawns in them and in convoys... which is still a massive problem in EC. Plus, if they are BR'd correctly you can keep the all aspect missile loaded heli's out of the 8.0 - 9.x branches so they arent brokenly good and still more than usable (outside of the poor UH-1's which have no control dampening and unless someone is using rudder pedals can become an unholy handful to fly...)

 

When EC bugged out and had AI spawning in them constantly it was actually entertaining to try to combat them because you randomly get close to one on accident and then you are prowling the ground to find it to engage it, not to mention they could offer even more objectives than we already have now like a cap zone which could be a "rescue the downed pilot", where depending on what teams helicopter gets there first (would have to be a utility style such as a UH-1 or another with extra seating aka: not a dedicated gunship) can 'cap' to retrieve the pilot / POW and return to their airfield for a small ticket drain on the other team.

[Lieutenant_Camel 622]

@Schindibee .....as I said, people always have good ideas. Gaijin should start listening to such people

On 18/02/2023 at 21:20, Sputnik_77 said:

Helis in EC abuse scenario:

 

A player takes off in his Ka-52 on a hilly map, from a forward operation base. He skips battle and heads low straight to enemy airfield. He hovers 5m over ground 10km away from runway... and vikrhs the *** out of taking off players. 

then the SAMs will be strengthened there - problem solved

[DerGrafVonZahl 4,228]

With the current Helos? Hell no.

 

With reworked helos? sure why not.

 

 

But they wil never rework the helos, so i'd rather not have more mouse aiming in SB Air.

[Sputnik_77 1,563]

On 24/02/2023 at 15:49, Batwingsix said:

If they keep true to the BR brackets they use now, it will be facing jets with plenty of good radars which can see it, and Fox 1 and Fox 3 missiles that will be a threat to it.

Lol against the ground no radar can spot helis at the moment when they are in hover. Fox 1 yeah right, you can lock Ka-50 in F-16 from about 5km given you are below him and he is against the sky then Aim-7 kinda works however if he chaffs heavy it will miss. And definitely no Phoenix can track a heli.

20 hours ago, Lieutenant_Camel said:

all the developers need are some good ideas in their head

No, all the developers need is a budget for approved work. Game design and raising development tasks is not developers responsibility but product owners together with PMs and the rest of the business

 

20 hours ago, Lieutenant_Camel said:

then the SAMs will be strengthened there - problem solved

How? Currently Rolands max range when manned by AI is 4km. If you think it is that easy then please create a mission with one airbase defended by 'strengthened' SAMs and put a player in Ka-50/52, Mi-28 15km away from it with few static targets in the middle of the runway. Then share it here. 

 

6 hours ago, DerGrafVonZahl said:

With the current Helos? Hell no.

With reworked helos? sure why not.

Yes.

[Lieutenant_Camel 622]

1 hour ago, Sputnik_77 said:

How? Currently Rolands max range when manned by AI is 4km. If you think it is that easy then please create a mission with one airbase defended by 'strengthened' SAMs and put a player in Ka-50/52, Mi-28 15km away from it with few static targets in the middle of the runway. Then share it here. 

the Ka-52 is overrated. in reality, the stingers take out the Ka-52s by the dozen. but no matter. we are in a game here..

 

normally, each nation would get their own AF SAM types. no one wanted all AFs to be guarded only by Rolands.

SAM reinforcement doesn't necessarily mean Roland-copy-and-paste. of course better SAMs! and that correspond to the nations stationed on the AF.

 

also, many players wished years ago to make the maps bigger and put the AFs in the back in a spear zone for the enemies, then we wouldn't need AF SAMs. 

[Talisid 301]

I would LOVE helis in sim. They should definitely find a way to implement them, also because they're losing on money given that their premium helis are losing lots of potential customers.

[Daffan 6,157]

On 14/02/2023 at 03:20, Yeres33 said:

Everything is fine right now, just what the partner says, each one has their role.

 

Except helis are every role.

 

Russian helis beat jets

 

Russian helis beat tanks

 

Russian helis beat helis

[OstGoth 53]

Find it hard to think that helicopters would serve any purpose other than being farmed by jets 

Edited May 4 by OstGoth
Clarification

[Talisid 301]

I dont think they would go down so easily tbh. Even seeing them is very hard soemtimes

[ТhеКомгаdе 855]

It's a good idea, but i'm not sure if you're aware how toxic helis are against Air targets. Specially chinese and kamovs, can't see them from the cockpit while they just sit tight and wait outside your airfield with Ty-90 or atgm's

[_Yoschi_ 688]

On 13/02/2023 at 16:09, Schindibee said:

If you're in a F-16A ADV or another dedicated fighter, you don't deal with them, as this is not your role or job.

 

If you want to tackle those targets, fly a dedicated attacker/bomber or a multirole aircraft.

 

But then, the ideo of helis in Sim Ec is an interesting one, but probably difficult to implement: Where would you take off/spawn? Where would you land once the ground battles is over and disappears? How to deal with the fat that you are little else than cannon fodder for anything else that flies?

 

 

It's can be connected. Ground battles game spawn in EC map when square is to conquer. After ground battle end it's just square change side. Before square battle start it can be anuonce by game system. Hicopters can start from normal airfields... 

[White_Timberwolf 27]

Helicopters can spawn at the tents on airfields and/or use the bombing points as a forward spawn should they wish. It's been done before when Gaijin 'accidentally' added AI helicopters into EC matches a year or two ago.