Air battles need something between arcade and realistic

[Zepidel 6]

I despise ARB, every game you are forced to climb for ~5 minutes. I don't understand what this brings to the gamemode, it's not sim, and it offers no tactical advantage or different ways to approach the start of the match, the only thing you can possibly do different match to match is the amount of side climb you decide to do. Either way its just a gigantic waste of time. Looking at an hour session of ARB I did just over half of it was literally alt tabbed watching youtube as I nose up 280 ias to the side a bit so I can finally get somewhere useful.

Arcade on the other hand is just a massive furball with lead indicators. Which also brings up a contradiction in ARB design. If you are going to have this long autistic drawn out starting phase that tries to sim something, why on EARTH did you leave in the enemy plane indicators? You took an entire aspect of air combat and threw it in the trash (tracking), while also leaving in the boring parts.

Why after 10 years hasn't there been a game mode for air that has realistic flight models and UI, but allows players to get into the action faster? Right now I am literally having more fun playing planes in GRB. It's FASTER to que up for ground, spawn in a light vic cap a point and spawn a plane than it is to que for air and go through all the climbing BS. And the cherry on top is enemy planes don't get a big fat HERE I AM indicator above my head so stealth and tracking actually matter in GRB unlike the mode actually supposed to be for air combat.

[Rikers_Beard 510]

Three words:

 

Eff. Two. Pee.

 

This is what F2P gaming is about. Force battles to be fought in specific, constricted ways to minimize what the player gets from it, making them "have to" play more, which directly increases the chances they will buy something.

 

But of course, thread will go on at least 2 pages of people acting like an F2P game is some how anything more than an F2P game because reasons.

 

 

Edited February 8 by Rikers_Beard

[Thorien_Kell 846]

This is absolutely correct. However, I'm afraid that Arcade is far more popular in both ground and Air, so if we force merging, realistic crowd would get shafted. 
I cannot play Arcade anymore, RB is so much better and rewarding, BUT Air RB matches are graveyards of long waits for match startup (5 min + easily in more unpopular times) you wait for 5 minutes, you climb for 5 minutes and then, most of the guys, like 2/3, get zero kills. No wonder nobody plays this game mod. 

For realistic, air spawns for everyone (not in the same altitude thou) would cut off the dead weight, matches would be shorter and more dynamic and you would lose nothing but boredom. 
I would even consider allowing us more than one plane. Why not? We have multiple tanks in ground RB and game mode works just fine. Why is having multiple vehicles totally fine for Arcade air and ground, Realistic ground, but wrong and blasphemy in Air RB? For Sim, I get it, but we do not play sim. 

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,426]

23 hours ago, Zepidel said:

I despise ARB, every game you are forced to climb for ~5 minutes. I don't understand what this brings to the gamemode

Then you're like all others players, you don't understand the game mode.

 

 

Try to fly low from start to end, and you might understand why.

[Night_Trapper 1,641]

23 hours ago, Zepidel said:

I despise ARB, every game you are forced to climb for ~5 minutes. I don't understand what this brings to the gamemode, 

I'm afraid you have no idea what planes are all about..
Therefore, I recommend that you play games with tanks and use aircraft as much as possible to support ground units.

Just attack planes, with anti-surface bombs and anti-surface missiles...
Other airplanes depend on the way they are used and usually the more they climb, the better their performance...

[PlumleyBT 2,788]

On 08/02/2023 at 13:35, Zepidel said:

I despise ARB, every game you are forced to climb for ~5 minutes. I don't understand what this brings to the gamemode

You don't understand the game mode in the first place.

Stick to AB if you think altitude doesn't give any tactical advantage.

[Zepidel 6]

On 09/02/2023 at 06:47, PlumleyBT said:

You don't understand the game mode in the first place.

Stick to AB if you think altitude doesn't give any tactical advantage.

 

On 09/02/2023 at 06:17, Night_Trapper said:

I'm afraid you have no idea what planes are all about..
Therefore, I recommend that you play games with tanks and use aircraft as much as possible to support ground units.

Just attack planes, with anti-surface bombs and anti-surface missiles...
Other airplanes depend on the way they are used and usually the more they climb, the better their performance...

You guys misunderstand me. When I say that climbing "brings nothing to the gamemode" I'm not saying that altitude gives no advantage or to remove such things, what im saying is the first 5 minutes of every single ARB match plays out almost identically, and therefore it adds nothing to the game but tedium. 

I play a lot of another game called Squad. In that game, you have a pregame setup that can last 10-15 minutes on some maps where no action happens. This time is for setting up your spawn network on the map, and every map and even on the same map can play out drastically differently, and you have almost unlimited choices of what to do in that 10-15 minutes to set yourself up for success in the game. Climbing in ARB lacks this, the only thing you could possibly change is the angle relative to the other team you decide to side climb at (more or less), but you still just nose up at the appropriate angle/speed and then just basically afk for the next few minutes, it's mind-numbing and boring and adds no depth to the gameplay at all. 

 

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,426]

2 hours ago, Zepidel said:

but you still just nose up at the appropriate angle/speed and then just basically afk for the next few minutes, it's mind-numbing and boring and adds no depth to the gameplay at all. 

Not necessarely,... many pilot who just climb will end up on the deck few seconds after engaging,... because they don't think of strategy,...

 

It's even more visible when half your team go for a single bomber.

[anyuser 5,071]

On 08/02/2023 at 13:35, Zepidel said:

Why after 10 years hasn't there been a game mode for air that has realistic flight models and UI, but allows players to get into the action faster?

Well, Gaijin had the idea to test out AB maps in RB and the action was fast paced.

RB climbers were not very pleased with the small maps. Not so much about other ground targets and base position but just because of the lower ranges and that way sooner meeting the enemy without being able to climb and climb and climb.

Can't remember if Gaijin tried out the AB spawning in RB, but it would have turned RB into AB and something you can't win by TDM but by objectives. Now look how people cried about how meaningless fighters in RB are in the past and you might get an idea if you take away the TDM mode where you could place a big sea map below for many players without a problem.

 

Btw, in the past the flight models of AB were more realistic and AB was slower because of that. Still no breaking but less strong boost to control surfaces. Why Gaijin boostet it in AB - don't know.

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,426]

3 hours ago, anyuser said:

Well, Gaijin had the idea to test out AB maps in RB and the action was fast paced.

RB climbers were not very pleased with the small maps. Not so much about other ground targets and base position but just because of the lower ranges and that way sooner meeting the enemy without being able to climb and climb and climb.

Can't remember if Gaijin tried out the AB spawning in RB, but it would have turned RB into AB and something you can't win by TDM but by objectives. Now look how people cried about how meaningless fighters in RB are in the past and you might get an idea if you take away the TDM mode where you could place a big sea map below for many players without a problem.

 

Btw, in the past the flight models of AB were more realistic and AB was slower because of that. Still no breaking but less strong boost to control surfaces. Why Gaijin boostet it in AB - don't know.

If i remember well those small maps were the most BS thing they have done,... as Bombers were easily winning the game,... (that problem wasn't on par with strategic bomber spam, but still enough to be noticed).

 

Realistic Battle have been seen to have fast pace action with some special event such as the Bombing run in German territory (famous P-51D spam vs Me-262 spam) this have been problematic as players would spam one side of the battle (so many Me-262 players for those events) while P-51D were accompagnied by P-47D's or P-63's.

 

A fast pace gamemode in RB have been rejected since those 3 event were made.

 

Because Gaijin can't make them in order to be good to play in those.

 

 

After some times, we can also enjoy playing low altitude,... here the OP thinks it's an obligation to fly high, but the reality is that you can fly as you like if you're able to keep energy to fight, and bring down those who climbed harder than you did.

 

The OP is just not experimented enough to understand that climbing is way to help yourself with the grind.

 

Being higher and fast is a way to be safe from ennemies who did not initially climbed.(yet i prefer being low altitude^^")

Edited February 12 by Cpt_Bel_V

[Capt_Yunaris 104]

The five minutes of side climb followed by comedy furball is a massive snorefest.  Something in between would be excellent. 

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,426]

5 minutes ago, Capt_Yunaris said:

The five minutes of side climb followed by comedy furball is a massive snorefest.  Something in between would be excellent. 

And another one,... 

 

You k ow that being in a furball ain't safest way to fight right? This is likely to get you killed.

 

But if you prefer to die more often,... i'm sure Gaijin can do something for you.

 

 

Just be aware that this is already a F.Fest at toptier, when everyone is sending missiles after 40seconds in the air.

 

I imagine that when you spawn you'll be already dead with such new game mode.

[VT_88 335]

If you didn't have to take off from airfield and waste your time getting to battle field I would play RB

[Zepidel 6]

5 hours ago, Cpt_Bel_V said:

And another one,... 

 

You k ow that being in a furball ain't safest way to fight right? This is likely to get you killed.

 

But if you prefer to die more often,... i'm sure Gaijin can do something for you.

 

 

Just be aware that this is already a F.Fest at toptier, when everyone is sending missiles after 40seconds in the air.

 

I imagine that when you spawn you'll be already dead with such new game mode.

I've tried playing safe and climbing and avoiding the initial scuffle, but this leads to three outcomes. 
 

1. Your team mops up and you now have a 3:1 or higher advantage over the other team and just wasted your entire match doing nothing and getting nothing out of it, because the 2 enemies left are airfield camping or 20km away.
2. Your team gets mopped up, now you have absolutely no chance in hell to do anything but bnz because if you attempt to dogfight anyone there is going to be 2 or 3 sharks right behind him all trying to get that RP/SL off you.
3. You get one or two good dogfights after surveying the place for 10 minutes and waiting for stuff to cooldown. This is fine, but its technically xxxx RP/SL per hour, and really just a sim lite experience.


I realize that what im complaining about is mostly props, and early jets. But that's a pretty xxxx massive part of the game even if its not the newest stuff. I'm pretty sure gaijin can implement something to help non-missle BR's without xxxx it up for current high/top tier air.

[Mr_New_Vegas 252]

The problem with not including the climb part of each battle is it removes another part of the game that many planes are handicapped (or improved) by. Maybe if every plane spawned at their best possible climb height after 4 minutes or something, it would work - but that's about the only way I would support it. 

[Dodo_Dud 5,068]

18 hours ago, Zepidel said:

and therefore it adds nothing to the game but tedium. 

There is a reason why air RB pays so much more RP than arcade. And the main reason are those 5 minutes. So if you value the RP income from RB, don't touch them.

 

On 09/02/2023 at 12:54, Thorien_Kell said:

However, I'm afraid that Arcade is far more popular in both ground and Air

Unfortunately, this is a wrong impression. Once you reach higher tiers (jets), arcade air gets deserted and realistic air is densely populated.

Edited February 13 by Dodo_Dud

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,426]

5 hours ago, Zepidel said:

I've tried playing safe and climbing and avoiding the initial scuffle, but this leads to three outcomes. 
 

1. Your team mops up and you now have a 3:1 or higher advantage over the other team and just wasted your entire match doing nothing and getting nothing out of it, because the 2 enemies left are airfield camping or 20km away.
2. Your team gets mopped up, now you have absolutely no chance in hell to do anything but bnz because if you attempt to dogfight anyone there is going to be 2 or 3 sharks right behind him all trying to get that RP/SL off you.
3. You get one or two good dogfights after surveying the place for 10 minutes and waiting for stuff to cooldown. This is fine, but its technically xxxx RP/SL per hour, and really just a sim lite experience.


I realize that what im complaining about is mostly props, and early jets. But that's a pretty xxxx massive part of the game even if its not the newest stuff. I'm pretty sure gaijin can implement something to help non-missle BR's without xxxx it up for current high/top tier air.

They currently did trialed that,... People were unhappy have some aircrafts really needs altitude, when others don't.

 

Taking exemple of P-47, on deck the aircrafts is killed by anyone ^^"

[DocProfit 2,633]

Just use a plane with an air spawn.

 

There are quite a few planes with a striker/interceptor spawn that can get into the action within a couple of minutes, with minimal climbing.

 

Example:

 

The FW190A8 and F8 can be a really nasty surprise for enemy planes that think they have time to afk climb or not really pay attention for the first 5 mins.

 

 

Edited February 14 by DocProfit

[VT_88 335]

Try World at War. Starts in one day.