Can someone explain how SKR-7 / SKR-1 are not the most OP coastal vessel in the naval mode?

[Jareel_Skaj 298]

So, I finally got around to play SKR-7, had 6 games in it, and ended up killing 35 player-controlled ships and 3 airplanes with stock setup and a crew having no skills (I barely touched Soviet naval). How is that thing even fair at BR 4.3? It feels like seal-clubbing.

At one point I swam between 4 destroyers and killed them all in a direct gunfight before they managed to do any critical damage to my ship.

• The thing is the size of a destroyer (in fact, it's bigger than, for example, K2, which is classed as a destroyer in-game (82m long vs 78m)), yet it randomly disappears in the middle of a battle like a small motor torpedo boat. I literally seen it vaporize on an open water when fighting against the SKR-7. Why it's spotting mechanics aren't the same as those of the ships of the same size? (Does spotting work by displacement? It has 40% lower than the one of Frunze, but... displacement got nothing to deal how easy it is to spot a ship)
  • For the size it also has a mobility of a destroyer, even exceeding some (like German, British or most of Japanese destroyers at BR 4.3).
• It's absurdly survivable for a coastal vessel due it its huge size. Ships with machine guns are basically harmless, and I seen it shrug-off a direct hits from 356mm SAP shells from my Kongo.
• Its shells are absurdly good. 76mm rounds with muzzle velocity of 980 m/s firing 90 RPM of 0.62 kg explosive fillers? And these shells nuke via just the sheer volume of shrapnel. In its BR it can ammo-rack pretty much every destroyer, and what it can't ammo-rack, it can just spray-paint to erase every unarmored gun onboard.
  • There's literally just 1 ship that I faced which caused me any issue: K2, as its 60mm armor was just too much. So I simply killed the bridge and dispatched it with a single torpedo. If I would have SKR spaded, its rockets would be a good alternative, as we were ~200m away from each other.
• It has proximity shells with 0.74kg filler flying at 980 m/s, so it can erase planes by just looking at them, but even though I did not have them - I still could kill every plane I chose to. Just the sheer volume of fire combined with that muzzle velocity is enough to smack enemy down. And all I need is a single hit on target, as it's almost a kilogram of explosives.
• It has an absurdly short rangefinding time ("Measuring range"). I did not play any destroyer that would give me the lead indicator as quickly as the SKR-7 does. So you basically never have to aim based on intuition.

 

So... what's the downside of the SKR-7?

• Unlike Douglass or Saetta, it can survive a direct hit even from some of the highest caliber guns in the game. So it's not a glass cannon.
• It lacks AP/SAP shells, but realistically speaking there's enough fragments that penetrate deep into hull to ammo-rack almost any destroyer it gets to see. If that doesn't work, then it's got rockets (7,5 RPM, 25.5 kg TNT each) and torpedoes to deal with whatever the HE shells cannot kill.
• I guess it has a worse anti-air defense than Pr. 12412 with its 5000 RPM 30mm AA gun and/or Douglass/Saetta with their guided missiles, but... it's still one of the most dangerous ships to approach in an airplane (saying it as someone on the receiving end), so I'm not sure you can even count that as any sort of a disadvantage.

I feel like I must be missing something... someone please, explain to me how SKRs aren't the most OP coastal vessels in the game.

 

At a very least they should give it the same spotting mechanics that destroyers have, and let them be spottable at a long range, cause as it stands now I feel like I can erase enemy DDs without them even noticing me. Preferably also increase that absurdly short rangefinding time.

 

For posterity: Datamined SKR-7's main guns, rockets and the SKR-7 itself.

Edited January 23 by Jareel_Skaj

[[email protected] 29]

Welcome to naval, Soviet naval, SKR naval...and the realisation that the best Russian Destroyer is a coastal!

 

Its well known that the SKRs are OP and a pain to play against, regularly sitting unopposed at the top of the leader boards well ahead of any other team mates. Just wait till you get a few mods and become even more dangerous! 

 

Their biggest issues is not necessarily the powerful guns, high fire rate, access to HE-VT etc, its the armour. Or rather its the Stalinium armour that soaks Destroyer rounds like a sponge, combined with masses of empty hull space that has no effect on performance when blacked out. 

 

Thankfully its not all Soviet Era magic, not quite. Since they moved to destroyer spawns at least you can target them earlier rather than it ripping through the coastals in seconds before seeking bigger targets. And in uptiers they face some bigger DDs and Cruisers that hit hard at longer ranges (although SKRs are so common they drag other BRs to them to fill battles). I've learned to spot them quickly straight from the off, load SAP/AP (HE barely affects even the tuurets and superstructure) and concentrate on them exclusively hoping to sink them before they get to <4km which is when they basically become top dog vs anything. I've upset many captains with my 3.7 reserve DDs by hitting reverse early and peppering them, it's not easy nor guaranteed but at least it gives a fighting chance by opening range. 

 

 

Edited January 23 by [email protected]

[RඞnminbiYඞn 146]

Uh, yep, contrary to what some people think, quite a few frigates are very powerful. In terms of how to kill it... uh idk, just aim I guess. If you shoot the turrets they can't fire, if you shoot right under the turrets it detonates ammo and takes out a chunk of its crew, if it carries rockets you can shoot the storage for an even bigger detonation. That's not really helpful I know, but well, there's nothing special about the SKR that makes it different to kill from any other ship. It also mostly faces new players or Moffet bots so it may seem that it's unstoppable.

 

Hmm, I will say that Akebono/Ikazuchi are just as good for their BR. they are basically the SKRs with half the guns (and no torpedoes but they get a twin 40mm) but 1.0 BR lower, meaning that they do the same things the SKRs do, but also face a lot of small boats that can't even scratch it, like imagine fighting an SKR in the LCM Zippo. 

 

Speaking of K2, it's actually called a frigate in-game, but it's stuck in the bluewater tree because it used to be in the destroyer line before the split.

 

Oh right, also the lead calculating time is short cause it has radar, every radar boat does that.

[kkang2828 1,414]

On 23/01/2023 at 20:41, Jareel_Skaj said:

I seen it shrug-off a direct hits from 356mm SAP shells from my Kongo.

 

That's overpenetration, same will happen with any other destroyer or frigate. SKRs are still definitely too survivable though.

 

On 23/01/2023 at 20:41, Jareel_Skaj said:

It has an absurdly short rangefinding time ("Measuring range"). I did not play any destroyer that would give me the lead indicator as quickly as the SKR-7 does. So you basically never have to aim based on intuition.

 

That's just tracking radar, which is also on several post-war destroyers. 

 

Other than those, yeah all your points are correct and SKRs are OP as ****. Only reliable way to kill them is to hit the small above-water ammo racks, but you have to get close and within effective range of the SKRs to do that.

[TheMightySardine 1,415]

People thinking SKR is somewhat magically OP never played with it. Literally single HE and your turrets are toast and you are helpless in the water, while every single destroyer just onetaps your ammo. I took it out once after not playing with it for years during Op Winter suffer and quickly returned to Helena/Belfast/Moffet as these were much better. The moment i spawned i got anihilated by enemy destroyers with my turrets constantly being destroyed and me burning.

Edited January 25 by TheMightySardine

[LeeZhang 42]

Alright. Let me share some thoughts on SKR-1/7.

 

It is very overpowered, but you can still defeat it.

 

Most of the time people fear shooting at it since they don't dare to take the revenging fire rain from it. And then half of the team gets wiped out by the unharmed beast. But I assure you that, if you aim nicely and your gun has some useful shell, they can be taken out of action. In fact, I even managed to sunk Pr.35 using Pr.50 for few times. My suggestion is, if you see SKR, don't be afraid of it. Open fire, take out as much of its crew as you can, and always put that thing as your first priority. Of course, you will be defeated many times, but your attempts won't be in vain if everyone dares to do so.

 

It has one of the best rockets in game so if you get too close you are screwed. And some maps have too much cover for them. Well......

[Jareel_Skaj 298]

Good news everyone: At least one of the SKR's survivability issues will be resolved - these large exhaust ports on the rear of the ship will hopefully stop being transparent to the shells!

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/SGTKsliKyOuk?comment=QmXrSzUM4m9XsCkpamMkDL7q

 

On 08/03/2023 at 12:57, LeeZhang said:

It is very overpowered, but you can still defeat it. (...) In fact, I even managed to sunk Pr.35 using Pr.50 for few times. My suggestion is, if you see SKR, don't be afraid of it.

That's not the argument at all. Noone says that it's unsinkable. Noone here is afraid of shooting at it.

[Jareel_Skaj 298]

On 20/03/2023 at 12:55, Jareel_Skaj said:

Good news everyone: At least one of the SKR's survivability issues will be resolved - these large exhaust ports on the rear of the ship will hopefully stop being transparent to the shells!

https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/SGTKsliKyOuk?comment=QmXrSzUM4m9XsCkpamMkDL7q

"Will be fixed in an upcoming update"

<3

One little step towards making SKRs less OP.

[Thodin 6,659]

21 minutes ago, Jareel_Skaj said:

"Will be fixed in an upcoming update"

<3

One little step towards making SKRs less OP.

 

The issue with SKR-7 aren't these two funnels. Its an almost immunity vs. HE and mediocore SAP shells. Alot ships and boats don't have good SAP or AP shells, but have to rely on HE shells. You can pepper this thing with many dozen 100mm shells (like automatic cannons from frigates or DD guns), but it just doesn't take any damage. Almost no crewloss and even the superstructure + equipments remain operable. When HE impacts on my Ger, JP and US ships, all guns and mods get incapacitated quickly. But for the SKR-7 the guns just yellow up, even when directly hit by HE. Same for the missile launchers of doom and any other equipment. In return then use their autocannons and within seconds you're completly cirppled.

 

Its just a small, unarmored boat. The crazy survivability must be a programming error. Cause sometimes you see those also in BB matches. Once shot a full HE Salvon with my Bayern battleship, which hit - without that much damage. Irl this small tincan should have been sunk.

Edited March 24 by Thodin

[Jareel_Skaj 298]

1 hour ago, Thodin said:

 

The issue with SKR-7 aren't these two funnels. Its an almost immunity vs. HE and mediocore SAP shells.

 

Oh, I know. Hence the post. I 100% agree with everything you said. But every bit helps.

 

1 hour ago, Thodin said:

Its just a small, unarmored boat. The crazy survivability must be a programming error. Cause sometimes you see those also in BB matches. Once shot a full HE Salvon with my Bayern battleship, which hit - without that much damage. Irl this small tincan should have been sunk.

Yea, wrote about this sponge effect in the second point of the Original Post up above.

Apparently there's a separate damage model for coastal that most (but not all) of the vessels use, that makes makes them flippin annoying to kill.

Edited March 24 by Jareel_Skaj

[_Poul_ 708]

30 minutes ago, Jareel_Skaj said:

Apparently there's a separate damage model for coastal that most (but not all) of the vessels use, that makes makes them flippin annoying to kill.

There is no point to repeat myself, so if you are interested, and want to hear the explanation of many problems you face, you can check this topic:

 

 

[Jareel_Skaj 298]

If anyone is curious - here is the crew distribution in the SKR-7:

 

Extracted from Assets viewer and in-game files. data vis with photoshop and chroma. Took about an hour to make.

 

It adds to 98 crew (minCrewMemberAliveCount: 29 + in-game "Maximum loss" (under "Crew interchangeability" crew skill) for Aced: 69 crew members = 98 total)

One quick observation - looks like the fix to the rear-top 'exhaust vents'/'air intakes' (above engines) will have a positive impact, as a high calibre HE shell hitting it will likely damage the crew compartments below (up to 31 crew members killed, if you're lucky to blast both engines along with the compartment_04_dm (15 crew) in one hit)

 

Hope it will be useful for people looking to sink the thing faster

Edited March 24 by Jareel_Skaj