Remove smoke from all naval modes

[Revan131 768]

in naval battles smoke is gods gift to trolls and morons....   remove it!!!!!!!    you are just screwing over your own teammates by spamming smoke non-stop which seems to be the main reason people use it... just to troll teammates.   

[[email protected] 101]

While there's likely a few trolls ntm one of the botter types after they take a certain amount of damage start dumping smoke.

 

But absolutely not no screening smoke is a boon to many ships when used defensively for masking retreats & offensively for laying mines/ launching torps in a choke point against foes in cqc (I really wish we weren't limited to ×5 charges).

 

Still historically smoke screening is a part of real world naval battles so it seems as an odd thing to take out of the mode.

 

It seems like something one might just need to live with (I know I do with a few things in this poxy mode).

[Josephs_Piano 7,008]

^^^^^^ - what he said.

 

I agree there are plenty of "aces" with apparently no idea how to use it, but when I use it there is a good purpose and I am not prepared to lose that for teh sake of a little less annoyance.

[Revan131 768]

im sure you both think you are superstars with your tactical use of smoke... but all you are doing is blinding your teammates 9 out of 10 times.

 

 

[FleursDuMal79 25]

2 hours ago, Revan131 said:

im sure you both think you are superstars with your tactical use of smoke... but all you are doing is blinding your teammates 9 out of 10 times.

 

 

If the smoke is always between you and the enemy, maybe you sit too far behind the fighting then?

[Josephs_Piano 7,008]

5 hours ago, Revan131 said:

im sure you both think you are superstars with your tactical use of smoke... but all you are doing is blinding your teammates 9 out of 10 times.

 

 

9 times out of 10 when I use it I'm out on a flank with a destroyer or PT boat throwing torpedoes into the center and no friends nearby.

 

I'm sure that is how you use it tho' since apparently you haven't been shown any better.

3 hours ago, FleursDuMal79 said:

If the smoke is always between you and the enemy, maybe you sit too far behind the fighting then?

 

Maybe you have hit upon his real problem ...

[kkang2828 1,418]

6 hours ago, Revan131 said:

im sure you both think you are superstars with your tactical use of smoke... but all you are doing is blinding your teammates 9 out of 10 times.

 

 

 

Blame the bots not the actual players who use smoke sensibly.

Edited January 23 by kkang2828

[[email protected] 29]

The only change to smoke needed is a timer to prevent idiots using directly from spawning. 

 

Its a very useful mechanic when used properly. A defensive smoke screen has saved me many times as I manoeuvre behind it. If you're stuck behind me whilst I'm trying to save my ship and hopefully return to battle intact that's not my fault. I could ask why aren't you up on the front line with me, maybe then the hurt would be shared and I wouldn't be dropping smoke in the first place. 

 

The problem is those who drop smoke and continue to sail in a straight line in full view of the enemy...thats the brain dead players fault not the experienced ones, nor the games.

Edited January 24 by [email protected]

[Bruce_R1 2,089]

3 hours ago, [email protected] said:

The problem is those who drop smoke and continue to sail in a straight line in full view of the enemy

A lot of the AFK bot scripts do do that though. It's rarely an actual player these days (at least at mid to high BRs... At low tier coastal, yeah, there it's generally newbs).

[[email protected] 29]

2 hours ago, Bruce_R1 said:

A lot of the AFK bot scripts do do that though. It's rarely an actual player these days (at least at mid to high BRs... At low tier coastal, yeah, there it's generally newbs).

Yes they do, but I've seen plenty of players do it too. They drop smoke and then manoeuvre by which time the smoke is already in the wrong position to help them. Some are coastals who forget it's great you can't defend a cap you can't see, but also in Bluewater we're smoke is triggered far too early. 

[Daffan 6,157]

On 23/01/2023 at 10:39, [email protected] said:

While there's likely a few trolls ntm one of the botter types after they take a certain amount of damage start dumping smoke.

 

But absolutely not no screening smoke is a boon to many ships when used defensively for masking retreats & offensively for laying mines/ launching torps in a choke point against foes in cqc (I really wish we weren't limited to ×5 charges).

 

Still historically smoke screening is a part of real world naval battles so it seems as an odd thing to take out of the mode.

 

It seems like something one might just need to live with (I know I do with a few things in this poxy mode).

Smoke doesn't even work in naval bro, it does not break lock 95% of the time even if they are behind 20 layers. Only good for tiny ships because of how this game works (built in aimbot)

Edited January 27 by Daffan

[[email protected] 29]

1 hour ago, Daffan said:

Smoke doesn't even work in naval bro, it does not break lock 95% of the time even if they are behind 20 layers. Only good for tiny ships because of how this game works (built in aimbot)

And yet time after time I drop smoke in destroyers, break lock, manoeuvre and come out to turn the tables. Even done it in cruisers. 

[Alikiwi55 121]

Smoke absolutely works, often at the wrong time when some numskull uses it on the spawn point preventing me locking onto targets. Saying it doesn't work is beyond nonsense :P

[[email protected] 101]

6 hours ago, Daffan said:

Smoke doesn't even work in naval bro, it does not break lock 95% of the time even if they are behind 20 layers. Only good for tiny ships because of how this game works (built in aimbot)

Your comment is noted and while you're correct for the most part it's great to use if correctly (screening in a zig line then zag behind it to break the grey box) that usually works for me although if the player on the other end knows how to aim without a grey box then you're in trouble.

 

Although you're right on ship size as the smoke berely works with +11000t ships as it doesn't obscure them completely. 

 

Anyway if a map has large hard cover nearby a screen can help distract/ throw off some aim so help to get within said cover.

 

Honestly imo longer lasting smoke / longer lenghts of smoke is probably needed along with unlimited amount of usage will help make smoke more useful.

 

Still I feel the devs need to work on smoke further so popping it will actually effect the grey box more then it currently does leading.

[Daffan 6,157]

 

On 28/01/2023 at 06:06, [email protected] said:

And yet time after time I drop smoke in destroyers, break lock, manoeuvre and come out to turn the tables. Even done it in cruisers. 

 

I believe you even less than before.

 

19 hours ago, [email protected] said:

Your comment is noted and while you're correct for the most part it's great to use if correctly (screening in a zig line then zag behind it to break the grey box) that usually works for me although if the player on the other end knows how to aim without a grey box then you're in trouble.

 

Smoke has terrible duration, ships are slow and there is a cooldown to recasting. You need to be going like 9000kph and have good reverse which I suppose your implying to do this roflmao 

 

19 hours ago, [email protected] said:

 

 

 

Anyway if a map has large hard cover nearby a screen can help distract/ throw off some aim so help to get within said cover.

 

How

 

It's not like your reversing to get to said cover, so the smoke is useless. 

 

19 hours ago, [email protected] said:

 

Honestly imo longer lasting smoke / longer lenghts of smoke is probably needed along with unlimited amount of usage will help make smoke more useful.

 

Exactly. This is one of those things that needs to be done.

 

This game is fake as anything anyway, the dog already left the kennel. It's a video game with super artificial buffs to aiming and accuracy (e.g mouse + lock capability for starters) that did not exist in real life, so there should be a smoke buff to compensate, and no matter how artificial it seems, still warranted. 

 

Kind of like how WoWS makes torpedoes better than real life because otherwise they are completely useless against mouse aimed guns, which is also the case here in WT actually.

 

19 hours ago, [email protected] said:

 

Still I feel the devs need to work on smoke further so popping it will actually effect the grey box more then it currently does leading.

 

Same with islands. It's a joke when there are shells coming down on a 80' steep angle over a mountaintop that nobody would ever fire in RL, but cuz muh gray-box aimbot it works. So if your trash ship has to fight against something 100x better you can't even escape. 

 

Edited January 28 by Daffan

[[email protected] 29]

29 minutes ago, Daffan said:

 

 

I believe you even less than before.

Not even willing to accept that other players have different experiences...ok, noted. 

 

Your argument is based on your inability to make smoke work for you when others can and do so on a regular basis. It's imperfect but your '95% doesn't break lock' and 'only good for tiny ships are clearly based on your viewpoint rather than the reality of the gameplay and mechanics. 

29 minutes ago, Daffan said:

 

 

[kkang2828 1,418]

16 hours ago, Daffan said:

This game is fake as anything anyway, the dog already left the kennel. It's a video game with super artificial buffs to aiming and accuracy (e.g mouse + lock capability for starters) that did not exist in real life, so there should be a smoke buff to compensate, and no matter how artificial it seems, still warranted. 

 

But unlimited and thicker/longer lasting smoke is actually more realistic compared to the current implementation? Honestly 95% of your statements never make any sense.

[Kanonenfutter20 70]

95% of the smokers are bots, so the problem is imho not the smoke but the farming bots. Although Gaijin changed something with the APEX update the bots are getting smarter, using aiming bots etc.

Just had a BR 7.0 game with 12 team members and only 2 real humans.

 

[Daffan 6,157]

On 29/01/2023 at 06:51, [email protected] said:

Not even willing to accept that other players have different experiences...ok, noted. 

 

Your argument is based on your inability to make smoke work for you when others can and do so on a regular basis. It's imperfect but your '95% doesn't break lock' and 'only good for tiny ships are clearly based on your viewpoint rather than the reality of the gameplay and mechanics. 

 

 

Bro it's simple. I never seen you before, I check you up like a good friend and yeah that's how I get to my conclusion of your fake story.

 

On 29/01/2023 at 22:53, kkang2828 said:

 

But unlimited and thicker/longer lasting smoke is actually more realistic compared to the current implementation? Honestly 95% of your statements never make any sense.

 

You have literally no idea what level of buff I want. When I write artificial I mean it.

Btw when are u gonna actually play Naval

 

 

9 hours ago, Kanonenfutter20 said:

95% of the smokers are bots, so the problem is imho not the smoke but the farming bots. Although Gaijin changed something with the APEX update the bots are getting smarter, using aiming bots etc.

Just had a BR 7.0 game with 12 team members and only 2 real humans.

 

 

The problem is actually the smoke. I see people in light cruisers reversing at 24-30kph and I can shoot them for 95% of the duration of the smoke. I can't even see their ship not even mast but I sure can see the box. I smoke myself and someone in a Cleveland keeps shooting me for 3 minutes straight and I am forced to drop 3x charges with full reverse to utilize that 5% window 3x times (like 20 seconds of peace out of 5 minutes)

 

The only time smoke actually "works" is when your going against a bot/scripter, the lock breaks for that 5% duration and their  script program jumps to next visible target in 0.01s 

 

Edited January 31 by Daffan

[LeeZhang 42]

On 1/23/2023 at 6:45 PM, FleursDuMal79 said:

If the smoke is always between you and the enemy, maybe you sit too far behind the fighting then?

In case of coastal we have a significant speed difference between torpedo boats/fast attack crafts and sub chaser/mine layers. Which the slower vessels will always have some distance from first engagements.

 

On 1/24/2023 at 10:52 PM, [email protected] said:

The only change to smoke needed is a timer to prevent idiots using directly from spawning. 

 

Its a very useful mechanic when used properly. A defensive smoke screen has saved me many times as I manoeuvre behind it. If you're stuck behind me whilst I'm trying to save my ship and hopefully return to battle intact that's not my fault. I could ask why aren't you up on the front line with me, maybe then the hurt would be shared and I wouldn't be dropping smoke in the first place. 

 

The problem is those who drop smoke and continue to sail in a straight line in full view of the enemy...thats the brain dead players fault not the experienced ones, nor the games.

Well very true if you want to save your own boat. But sometimes we also see people in a small boat start smoking while allies' bigger ships behind is already attempting to lay firepower on enemy. In some case, their smoke blocked ally's line of slight, and get destroyed by enemy who somewhat figured out their position through smoke.

[dragloon 111]

what we need is what somebody suggested not long after smoke started being widely used

 

a short set of basic tactics and rules / suggestions

on when and how to use things

and what some things can do to teammates

[Kanonenfutter20 70]

I think a set of rules won't help, what we need are programmers, who can provide better scripts for the farming bots. At BR 6.0+ there are usually only 2 humans in a team of 12 players, can't see that Gaijin can or will do anything about that. In battles without farming bots (BR below 5.0) I rarely see an ace using smoke in the wrong way.

 

But considering the bots, removing smoke for all bluewater ships would stop the smoking bots too

[SKurj 230]

reduce the number of charges smoke has, based on mode etc if needed.

 

it gets annoying from time to time, but I admit to using it alot if i am being overwhelmed and trying to disengage (often too late of course)

but it's not unusual to be firing on an opponent when the guy in front of you smokes up and breaks your lock.  but hey he could have been the one getting overwhelmed

Edited February 8 by SKurj

[DonH8362447 6]

Come on guys! Smoke screens are an inherent part of naval engagements! You have to learn to live with the fact that some ppl will use it badly, others will use it good but will block your sight, and that there is always the random factor in the form of player scripted bots out there using smoke as well. You can't just take things out because you don't like them, that is not how things work generally. 

On 08/02/2023 at 21:34, SKurj said:

reduce the number of charges smoke has, based on mode etc if needed.

What should be the criteria here? Arcade should get more or realistic and why??? Honestly, imo a change in smoke mechanics is not needed. 

 

 

On 23/01/2023 at 11:08, kkang2828 said:

Blame the bots not the actual players who use smoke sensibly.

Amen

[Lone_Di_Conis 10]

Yes please, just take it away, it is annoying and dangerous.