[email protected] 2,093 Report post Posted January 16 Don't know what to make of these to be honest guys and girls. Researched these for the Lightning hoping they'd be better than the Firestreaks that I found completely freaking awful and although they seem to track slightly better they just have almost zero range at all. The amount of times I've fired at an aircraft whilst I've had greater speed and the missile just explodes (or straight up vanishes) between me and my should be victim is a bit silly. Take the other night, I dive on an F-16 (stupid mixed nation room) looking to get an easy kill as he's completely unawares and the missile straight up vanishes. I had tone and it was definitely tracking as it was growling like the mother in law and it looks like it's going to go for centre mass and detonate him... but nothing. The range was easily under a mile and I'm reeling him in too so that Red Top should've had more legs but again, zilch. I know there's info on the statcard saying it should have a range of 7 miles but my question is that is this in level flight or lobbed from the stratosphere? Either way I'm sure as hell not seeing it in game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waelse 272 Report post Posted January 17 Check the WT wiki: https://wiki.warthunder.com/Red_Top Quote Pros and cons Pros: Has an uncaged seeker with wide gimbal limits Can lock on to targets from the side aspect very well Can be extremely hard to dodge when fired from side aspect Large warhead with wide blast radius Supports radar slaving Cons: Performs poorly when fired from directly behind an opponent (unless you have a speed advantage) Loses speed very quickly after the motor burns out Overall poor range at low altitude (can be mitigated by firing while approaching the target from the side) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
[email protected] 2,093 Report post Posted January 17 2 hours ago, Waelse said: Check the WT wiki: https://wiki.warthunder.com/Red_Top Cheers Waelse, I've read that but the range still seems laughably bad to the point where it doesn't seem to make much sense although I'll admit I don't know much about missiles. Once the motor burns out it feels like it stops in mid-air. Upon a quick forum search quite a few are saying that the missile is underperforming compared to reality especially where range/missile drag is concerned. It's also missing its all aspect capability, supposedly the Red Top could hit a target heading its way from 22,000 yards. In game it won't even lock. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cercata 54 Report post Posted February 3 (edited) On 16/01/2023 at 19:55, [email protected] said: Don't know what to make of these to be honest guys and girls. Researched these for the Lightning hoping they'd be better than the Firestreaks that I found completely freaking awful and although they seem to track slightly better they just have almost zero range at all. That was my first impresion, and I switched back to the firestreaks. But then I gave them another chance, and they are awesome, despite their very small range. You don't have to shoot them from behind, except for very slow targets, specially at low altitude. They are not all aspect but almost, for planes that their afterburner generates a lot of heat you can shot at 90º, and they are quite lethal. Edited February 3 by cercata Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
przybysz86 10,309 Report post Posted February 16 (edited) On 03/02/2023 at 11:47, cercata said: You don't have to shoot them from behind, except, in side aspect they don't pull enough to lead fast targets and if your target is slow, you might as well shoot from behind. IDK - I don't get "upgrade factor" vs Firestreaks. Red Tops to me feel like "fat aim9B FBW". As soon as motor burns out it's like if missile deploys aribrakes. Edited February 16 by przybysz86 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
przybysz86 10,309 Report post Posted February 16 shooting against AI surveilance (F86): this is where missile's engine burnt out - as you can see it was around or beyond half way mark: and that's as close as missile got: and that's all in slight turn so missile could cut into corner a bit (but nothing high G) and missile was fired at speed higher than target's and it was not on deck but 12kft Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
przybysz86 10,309 Report post Posted February 16 (edited) https://streamable.com/2pyjf2 I know range is 4km but I never expected it to hit. you can literally see that as soon as motor burns out I start catching up to the missile Edited February 16 by przybysz86 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cercata 54 Report post Posted February 17 With yesterday's server changes, now they are all aspect against targets that are using the afterburner upto 2.5km Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
przybysz86 10,309 Report post Posted February 17 1 hour ago, cercata said: With yesterday's server changes, now they are all aspect against targets that are using the afterburner upto 2.5km Except it's a number for reference scenario. Unless you take your Lightning into full uptier 11.7, best you can meet are mIg-21s and F-104 and those, I know - I tried, you can't lock from 2.5km. At best 1km which does not give enough time to launch missile and it to start tracking. A that range you might as well go for guns. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
przybysz86 10,309 Report post Posted March 22 (edited) @[email protected] check this out: Quote In order to make flight the characteristics of all missiles more authentic, their induced drag has been significantly increased. This results in increasing energy drop in manoeuvring, as well as at low speed flight. Maximum fire range in the frontal hemisphere and on crossing (collision) courses will be reduced, the efficiency of induced oscillation of enemy missiles by manoeuvres in long-range air combat will increase. Now I start to worry if I won't be in the blast zone when using Redtops inside the effective range after this change Edited March 22 by przybysz86 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cercata 54 Report post Posted March 24 How are the red tops now with the new induced drag change in the engine ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
[email protected] 2,093 Report post Posted March 25 On 22/03/2023 at 10:57, przybysz86 said: Now I start to worry if I won't be in the blast zone when using Redtops inside the effective range after this change Wait hold on.. so they've made them even draggier?! Well it has a fair blast radius I wonder if it'll make a good bomb at least. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
przybysz86 10,309 Report post Posted March 26 On 24/03/2023 at 11:15, cercata said: How are the red tops now with the new induced drag change in the engine ? I personally see no difference. I mean - I am sure there is but it was so bad before that it's hard to make it much worse. I remember that when I switched to AIM-9Bs after spending lovely time with Red Tops and I was shocked how long range 9Bs are Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
przybysz86 10,309 Report post Posted March 31 (edited) On 24/03/2023 at 11:15, cercata said: How are the red tops now with the new induced drag change in the engine ? this extremely difficult target in form of AI F-86 surveillance at this massive distance was too far for Red Tops Edited April 3 by przybysz86 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morvran_ 627 Report post Posted March 31 Red tops have never had the greatest range, I think its usually 1.5km, beyond that good luck, the biggest issue is their turn rate its about 1/5 what it once was. I've had one miss because the target turned a few degrees. Not even a hard turn. They pretty much will never hit if the target is turning even slightly, gone are days of being able to use radar and lead the shot to hit someone is a hard turn in the Sea-Vixen. just not possible anymore Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cercata 54 Report post Posted April 2 I have been just playing with the F.53, and I find the Red Tops much worst than before Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morvran_ 627 Report post Posted April 22 On 02/04/2023 at 20:16, cercata said: I have been just playing with the F.53, and I find the Red Tops much worst than before Becuase they are, they got nerfed through the floor and the bedrock below that floor. Though it is apparently "under investigation" so fingers crossed, we might see them actually usable in the future again, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
