Ground AB Arcade, Planes have way too much advantages

[hotfood 82]

Planes have too much advantage in ground AB, as the main focus of the game should be tanks, not planes. Here are some of the advantages:

- it can see which type of tank adversaries use

- it has long time to circle around and get multiple kills

- its too easy for a player to get into a plane. Too much planes are circling the sky

 

Yes, most of my deaths are due to planes and helis. I get the whole concept of combined forces, but this is just ridiculous dying 5 seconds after spawning, or player gettting easy revenge kills via planes.

 

Suggestions:

1. Do not show which kind of tank is on the map

2. reduce flight time from 35 seconds to 20 seconds

3. make it more hard for players to get into planes (ie. 20 points for bombers, 18, and 16 for other planes).
 

 

[CoffeeBean100 2,893]

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/336165-would-you-like-to-see-a-change-in-gf-airplanes/

[hotfood 82]

Thank you CoffeeBean

 

[hotfood 82]

I'm with you mate, airplanes should not be in ground battles. At least make a game mode for tanks only.

[VT_88 342]

Funny thing is...

 

New players and Bad player have a hard time getting a kill. So in order to fix that they give free kills using aircraft.

 

Now, that's not a very smart way.

 

They could have easily extended the time a new player plays against  humans AND AI bots.

Edited January 8 by VT_88

[SaperPL 434]

7 hours ago, VT_88 said:

They could have easily extended the time a new player players against  players AND AI bots.

That wouldn't really solve the problem. It's just pushing it back as those newbies wouldn't learn much playing against bots.

 

The solution is to add something like an introduction season where you need to go through series of challenges/tasks that require you to learn specific things before you can proceed to ongoing seasons and events. It could lock out from going to specific rank, but that won't happen because you can buy into the game with high ranking premium, so the only thing that could be gated behind such skill testing season would be the events and seasons - it would both make sure people know the mechanics as well as let them know there's ongoing stuff like seasons and events to get limited vehicles.

[PanzerLeader45 9]

On 14/12/2022 at 09:57, hotfood said:

Planes have too much advantage in ground AB, as the main focus of the game should be tanks, not planes. Here are some of the advantages:

- it can see which type of tank adversaries use

- it has long time to circle around and get multiple kills

- its too easy for a player to get into a plane. Too much planes are circling the sky

 

Yes, most of my deaths are due to planes and helis. I get the whole concept of combined forces, but this is just ridiculous dying 5 seconds after spawning, or player gettting easy revenge kills via planes.

 

Suggestions:

1. Do not show which kind of tank is on the map

2. reduce flight time from 35 seconds to 20 seconds

3. make it more hard for players to get into planes (ie. 20 points for bombers, 18, and 16 for other planes).
 

 

Now it only takes a 3-5 round burst from a plane to take out any AA. Armored or not. Getting pretty damn old.

[Xx8xX 165]

They will not chance nothing whatever chance they do it's worst that before 80% of the time i'm dying from enemy planes not tanks it's just stupid and they make it worst every time they chance something now you have Helicopters respawn behind your team tank respawn not to mention who will cap first base first and take little advantage in start other team is doomed to fail miserable because of constant plane spawn making the game end in 5 min most the time low BR are not so problematic but from 6.3 up is Plane fest every 20 sec another batch of 4 planes incoming.

[SpankdaMonkey 692]

23 hours ago, VT_88 said:

Funny thing is...

 

New players and Bad player have a hard time getting a kill. So in order to fix that they give free kills using aircraft.

 

Now, that's not a very smart way.

 

They could have easily extended the time a new player players against  players AND AI bots.

 

Problem with that logic is most games it's the regular few that jumps on all the air spawns repeatedly, the lesser experienced rarely get a chance before one of the cronic hot rod clanboies grab them. 

 

All the current plane spam is doing now is mostly padding a select group of individuals stats while they troll Arcade and the lower BR levels seal clubbing.   

[SaperPL 434]

1 hour ago, UR_A_Panty_Waste said:

In Arcade Ground Battles it's utter buffoonery ! Someone keeps jumping in planes, bombs tanks for kills then crashes with absolutely NO CONSEQUENCES. Jumps back into their hidden tank while flying and proceeds with a good score for doing NOTHING in the Ground Battle. Can't even fathom the pure idiocy of this charade. Try to capture a small zone, 1 bomb wipes out all the tanks and the advantage is lost. Just pure stupidity to have powerful bombs & bombers in the lower level arcade. Most are veterans taking advantage of newbies. Why?? Cause some Mo or group of Mo's deemed this acceptable for the game now Red is winning 95% of the battles with 8-10K tickets left !?? Not even worth spawning as the planes spawn right over the Base camp & you're destroyed before you eve move...Just purely asinine.

 

Go complain in the suggestion threads about plane spawns in arcade that are located in the suggestion section and vote on those suggestions, otherwise nothing is going to change.

[Cayari 415]

In arcades I don't think planes have that much of an advantage. Of course, planes are already powerful by their nature, since whoever has control of the sky wins the war, but in arcades they don't.

The bombs take enough time for you to run away from them, the planes are easily detectable (it's not difficult for you to shoot down a plane or at least get a critical hit, even using a tank to shoot it down).

 

The problem happens in Realista, but in arcades planes don't have that much advantage....

 

The advantage I think you are referring to is because they are planes, it is an inherent advantage of planes as a weapon of war.

 

Taking them out of battle is the same as taking out the vehicles that are prepared to shoot them down..

[Dodo_Dud 5,073]

The non-working part imho is still suicide diving on vehicles. There is nothing wrong with a fighter strafing and killing a vehicle. But not at the expense of his life. So we need a mechanic which will make players avoid diving into the ground. Candidates would be an economic mechanic or the ban from those air missions for the match, the day,...

 

 

[Gruminator 593]

Planes have to much power in ground (both) when Gaijin can't be arsed to give all countries the needed defence against it at all BRs. 

But i guess there is to much money in it since they continue of this route and even adding more air stuff (planes and the totally not needed attack drones)

They just dont give a toss with anything besides money.

[sardinha08 1,009]

40 minutes ago, Cayari said:

The problem happens in Realista, but in arcades planes don't have that much advantage....

In Arcade you get planes for free, by either getting kills or simply by waiting, they cost nothing to spawn and nothing when you die, you can see every enemy tank and type from across the map, you can spot all enemy tanks for your team, you can pick someone else's tank that is a threat for you or just for a revenge kill, you can fire your rockets at the last second before you kamikaze on your target so you won't miss, you can drop your bombs on slower tanks that are unable to drive away in time before the bombs explode, you can strafe light armoured or open top vehicles or even other type of tanks just to damage their tracks or engine. And after you're done, you just return to your tank and repeat. I have many matches where I kill more tanks with planes than with my own tanks, I recently got a 8x kill multi strike with a single bomber, that's half the enemy team dead in a couple of seconds, and already had matches with 10 kills made by planes. If you think that is not much of an advantage...

[SaperPL 434]

48 minutes ago, UR_A_Panty_Waste said:

Will do !! but it won't change

We would only see if it has a chance to be changed or not after it get passed to devs with a significant amount of votes. If we were to have a significant amount of votes, in hundreds as this is a pretty big change, and the suggestion mods wouldn't pass it to devs regardless of it, then it could mean that there is a decision to not touch this topic/not pass this topic.

I had a suggestion about fixing arcade SQB and got a lot of support in short time, but it wasn't passed and later that year the mode was removed - it seemed as if mods already knew that the mode was to be put down at that point.

 

1 hour ago, Cayari said:

The problem happens in Realista, but in arcades planes don't have that much advantage....

Both mods are equally broken when it comes to CAS vs ground, it's just that the cause is a bit different - in RB it's that the aiming at planes is hard until you get to radar on AAA, in AB is markers + free suicidal bombing with unlimited times you can use it. The problem in AB about the advantage is that it's some kind of magic RNG which makes it completely annoying and useless half of the time. Anyway in both modes it's broken, in RB it could be solved with lead indicator and maybe AI turret-top gunners option like in naval.

[PzII_is_a_Crutch 350]

The devs who develop WT are originally airplane sim developers.  Tanks are a means to an end (more players paying money to avoid the grind), so they don't really understand what tankers want.   

 

They should think about it this way... how fun would the game be if airplanes had to take off from airfields to start the game, and land to refuel or repair, and that during that process they could randomly be attacked by tanks and infantry.  Or if SAMs and air defense locations randomly spawned and targeted them (with them spawning behind you from what you'd expect to be friendly territory).  And which instantly identify Friend or Foe, and where you can't really use the terrain to hide against radar if you're trying to do a ground attack mission, etc.

I used to be an airplane sim geek who played Warbirds and Aces High 10+ years ago, and so I'm quite familiar with realism oriented MMO flight combat games, and would find that miserable and annoying. 

 

But Gaijin... well, they don't really see that is effectively the equivalent of what they have created for tankers playing Ground Battles.

[WhipperSnipper 279]

One day the devs might accidently stumble into these forums are realize most players HATE heavy bombers in AB. They are way to OP and far to easy to play.

 

 Get rid of them already, they are a lame, cheap and game wrecking class. I was having a great duel and covering our flank when out of nowhere, no whistle, no warning, boom... A heavy twin engine bomber is been used as a CAS..:(

[Renamed25930 83]

On 29/12/2022 at 22:15, SaperPL said:

 

Go complain in the suggestion threads about plane spawns in arcade that are located in the suggestion section and vote on those suggestions, otherwise nothing is going to change.

Nothing will change even if you tell the the devs face-to-face. We're all just shouting into the void either way, probably.
I'm getting the Strv 122s. I'll play them till I'm satisfied and uninstall.

[PzII_is_a_Crutch 350]

Pretty much.  Their product management team is pathetic.

 

[SaperPL 434]

14 hours ago, Renamed25930 said:

Nothing will change even if you tell the the devs face-to-face. We're all just shouting into the void either way, probably.

Well, if I've seen 400 votes and people commenting in this thread:

And nothing happening, then I would be 100% sure that's correct, but since you all complain here instead of even trying, we won't know that. Unless the monetisation and retention structure is so good thanks to this CAS problem being so annoying, if change for better could bring people to actually care about planes (grinding them) in ground AB, then maybe it would mean monetisation opportunity for premium planes as well for gaijin.

Even if part of the feedback system is a facade, there's still some staff that is actually being implemented over time. It's just that you guys don't get how small fraction of us, players, is talking here about those problems, and this is their argument for not touching the issue.

[Renamed25930 83]

20 minutes ago, SaperPL said:

but since you all complain here instead of even trying

I'm also currently trying to get a "tank-only" suggestion up much like yours but it gets deleted by the mods. I've re-uploaded it over a dozen times to no avail. I'm also showing my support for this mode wherever it pops-up in suggestions, so I'm not just complaining. CAS is so profitable to Gaijin they can't even imagine giving tankers their own playground.

edit: Now that I look, even my every single suggestion that has nothing to do with tank-only mode got deleted. Tell me why I should even try anything anymore?

Edited January 13 by Renamed25930

[SaperPL 434]

18 minutes ago, Renamed25930 said:

I'm also currently trying to get a "tank-only" suggestion up much like yours but it gets deleted by the mods. I've re-uploaded it over a dozen times to no avail.

 

If you're submitting a new suggestion instead of looking through list of existing suggestions and you make a duplicate, or if you write something against the rules in the interpretation of the mods, then they remove it. But it seems as you tried adding a duplicate suggestion instead of supporting existing suggestion about tank-only mode.

 

Apart from that - tank only mode is not going to happen, devs stated that few times in Q&As, what should happen is change of the plane spawn system into what we've got in naval arcade, and then, there should be some balancing on top of that making sure AAA and turret top guns can take care on the planes that are taken out in the ground battle, like for example different BRs for planes in this mode or general BR penalty for planes.

[Renamed25930 83]

9 minutes ago, SaperPL said:

and you make a duplicate

It's not duplicated. I've searched through those and there's nothing like mine that I could find. 
 

9 minutes ago, SaperPL said:

or if you write something against the rules in the interpretation of the mods

It's most likely this. What I'm proposing is not just tank-only for ground AB, but for all ground modes and this probably disgusts the mods, being probably vets since WT was only about planes.

Edited January 13 by Renamed25930

[sardinha08 1,009]

4 hours ago, SaperPL said:

It's just that you guys don't get how small fraction of us, players, is talking here about those problems, and this is their argument for not touching the issue.

That argument could work both ways, cause most players here seem to complain about planes in Ground AB and so it is reasonable to think that those don't use the forum for different reasons, some may not even know it exists, would have a negative opinion about planes in Ground AB too.

[sardinha08 1,009]

3 hours ago, Renamed25930 said:

It's most likely this. What I'm proposing is not just tank-only for ground AB, but for all ground modes and this probably disgusts the mods, being probably vets since WT was only about planes.

Considering they even play Ground AB. Only someone that doesn't play it can think that everything is working fine with CAS here.

As for me, I don't believe they will change anything, the pinned thread is from 2016 and nothing changed, the suggestion thread is from 2019 and nothing has changed. I voted on both.