Jump to content

Why does the F-4C II not have flares? Lets try to fix!


Umpaloopa
 Share

Why does the F-4C not have flares?
 
Two reasons I ask this because in real life the f-4c did flares & chaff
" The F-4 carried the AN/ALE 29 chaff/flare dispenser. It consisted of two dispensers, a chaff programmer, and a cockpit control unit. Each dispenser of the ALE-29A carried 30 RR-129/RR-144 chaff cartridges or 30 MK46/47 IR decoy flares. "
 
Plus also at 10.0 having no countermeasures is a huge disadvantage & most to all planes around it have countermeasures.
It is also the only researchable F-4 that has no countermeasures.
 
What can be done is that they add the flares but they raise it to 10.3 as to compensate for the new defensive power it now has.
this will now take it away from a lot of planes that can not defend against missiles due to their battle rating of 9.0.
 
Also implementing it would not be too hard as in the modifications there is already a gap as if they thought about it but scrapped the idea.

 

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, NoBombersInJetRB said:

USAF didn't use AN/ALE-29 and most of them was used by Navy Phantoms iirc. 

 

However, F-4C could carry AN/ALE-40 C/F dispenser.

 

 

Do you have the rest of that document? As the manual covers the F-4C and F-4D I remember there being some debate among the community as to whether that page related to the F-4C, F-4D, or both aircraft. It would be nice to finally put that to bed.

medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Flame2512 said:

Do you have the rest of that document? As the manual covers the F-4C and F-4D I remember there being some debate among the community as to whether that page related to the F-4C, F-4D, or both aircraft. It would be nice to finally put that to bed.

Neither the 1970,71 or 73 mention ALE-40's. Although the 71&73 both mention carriage of the ALE-38 Chaff dispensers on stations 2/8

medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Flame2512 said:

 

Do you have the rest of that document? As the manual covers the F-4C and F-4D I remember there being some debate among the community as to whether that page related to the F-4C, F-4D, or both aircraft. It would be nice to finally put that to bed.

I don't have unfortunately. I just found it from the sea of internet.

 

However, I may be able to get the CD with the PDF before the end of the year if it is not out of sale.

Edited by NoBombersInJetRB
medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Hoping the Devs see this and understand that there is a  significant  desire to see the F-4C get the countermeasures it was capable of carrying, per the documentation supplied by @NoBombersInJetRB.  Given the aircraft and weapons (especially missiles like the R60/60M, R13M1, AIM-9L, Magic 1, etc.) that now occupy the 9.7-10.3 bracket, the F-4C is in desperate need of a survivability boost.  Right now, in my squad and many others, F-4Cs are viewed as largely a 'free kill' because they lack any meaningful defense against the majority of AAMs that the aircraft faces at its BR.  Many of us otherwise enjoy the aircraft, but facing ordnance we have no real defense against is a real buzzkill, and it's hard to maintain any desire to fly it.  In combination with a revision to its armament, it could also go up in BR and relieve/decompress the pressure on some of the 9.0 BR aircraft, or simply adding countermeasures but leaving the ordnance as is could allow it to stay at 10.0 to be effective competition/counter to other aircraft at that BR.  This also gives it greater survivability for use with the US 10.0 Ground RB lineup in the CAS and Counter-CAS roles.

All in all, the F-4C receiving AN/ALE-40 countermeasures should be implemented as soon as possible- with the upcoming update, ideally- giving a massive quality-of-life improvement to Rank VI in the US tree, and breathing new life into an older aircraft, with no downsides in-game with regards to balance or gameplay. 

  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, Patriot762x54r said:

Hoping the Devs see this and understand that there is a  significant  desire to see the F-4C get the countermeasures it was capable of carrying, per the documentation supplied by @NoBombersInJetRB.  Given the aircraft and weapons (especially missiles like the R60/60M, R13M1, AIM-9L, Magic 1, etc.) that now occupy the 9.7-10.3 bracket, the F-4C is in desperate need of a survivability boost.  Right now, in my squad and many others, F-4Cs are viewed as largely a 'free kill' because they lack any meaningful defense against the majority of AAMs that the aircraft faces at its BR.  Many of us otherwise enjoy the aircraft, but facing ordnance we have no real defense against is a real buzzkill, and it's hard to maintain any desire to fly it.  In combination with a revision to its armament, it could also go up in BR and relieve/decompress the pressure on some of the 9.0 BR aircraft, or simply adding countermeasures but leaving the ordnance as is could allow it to stay at 10.0 to be effective competition/counter to other aircraft at that BR.  This also gives it greater survivability for use with the US 10.0 Ground RB lineup in the CAS and Counter-CAS roles.

All in all, the F-4C receiving AN/ALE-40 countermeasures should be implemented as soon as possible- with the upcoming update, ideally- giving a massive quality-of-life improvement to Rank VI in the US tree, and breathing new life into an older aircraft, with no downsides in-game with regards to balance or gameplay. 

Honestly, Gaijin should give the F-4C an AIM-9J, AIM-7E-2, and ALE-40, and the BR move up to 10.3 or 10.7 because It would be side grades of F-4E. and nobody want to experience Vietnam War when you fly MiG-17.

 

 

F-4C.png

 

Also, a bit of disappointing news. :(

Probably I can't get 1990s manuals.

Edited by NoBombersInJetRB
medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, NoBombersInJetRB said:

Honestly, Gaijin should give the F-4C an AIM-9J, AIM-7E-2, and ALE-40, and the BR move up to 10.3 or 10.7 because It would be side grades of F-4E. and nobody want to experience Vietnam War when you fly MiG-17.

 

 

F-4C.png

 

Also, a bit of disappointing news. :(

Probably I can't get 1990s manuals.

F 4C with 9j 7e2 and flares make it another f4e So most likely same br

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, NoBombersInJetRB said:

Honestly, Gaijin should give the F-4C an AIM-9J, AIM-7E-2, and ALE-40, and the BR move up to 10.3 or 10.7 because It would be side grades of F-4E. and nobody want to experience Vietnam War when you fly MiG-17.

I'd leave it with the bad missiles to keep it lower BR, don't really want a sidegrade.

medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly, @NoBombersInJetRB, I think they should avoid doing a 'complete' armament upgrade.  If they want to do one, allow it to carry the AIM-9D (which historically did occur in Vietnam, IIRC, due to the efforts of Robin Olds to replace the Air Force's missiles- as they had very lackluster performance- with the Navy's far more effective variants) and the AIM-7E (not the E-2), which itself would be a significant upgrade over the AIM-7D, but not so much- especially considering the....ahem....not great performance of the F-4C's radar- as to necessitate dragging the plane up to 10.7.  The F-4C airframe and flight performance, while good, probably should not be an airframe that regularly sees top-tier, especially given that the radar is what it is.  If they do this, absolutely bring it up to 10.3, but no further.  Keep the existing armament and only adding countermeasures should mean it gets left at 10.0. Really, even just upgrading from AIM-7D to the 7E should not result in a BR higher than 10.0, because the F-4C's radar is so much poorer than the F-4E.  In either case, the F-4C should remain as a stepping stone to the F-4E, IMHO, and not a simple sidegrade.  It really should keep its place.

medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, Draco_Argentum said:

I'd leave it with the bad missiles to keep it lower BR, don't really want a sidegrade.

I agree with this, I'd rather the line remain spread out, that and at 10.0 more and more aircraft within the bracket are getting flare dispensers now, to the point where its approaching the majority of what you face in 90% of matches at 10.0.

 

Even if its just the pylon mounted dispensers I'd love to see the F-4C just get some flares alone and stay where it is or go to 10.3 at most. 

Edited by Lolman345
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...