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Nerf russian IFV's anti-air capabities.


Thodin
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8 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

when have i ever sated this? oh wait, i haven't. All i'm saying is that the current vehicles or othes that are to come (light tanks and mbts) have no right being below 10.3 if they have aircraft tracking capabilities.

Why not? Even then they are still no where near better than dedicated Spaa/SAM with radar and better gun elevation and turret turn speed 

 

Sure the 2S38 and BMP2m need to go up for other reasons but let’s not sit here and pretend that their AA ability’s are anything game breaking(unless your bad at the game) I opt for more nations to have capabilities just like them

 

 

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21 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

when have i ever sated this? oh wait, i haven't. All i'm saying is that the current vehicles or othes that are to come (light tanks and mbts) have no right being below 10.3 if they have aircraft tracking capabilities.

Why would the Puma and BMP-3 for example be 10.3?

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40 minutes ago, Smin1080p said:

 

There has never been a rule against adding vehicles that are test or experimental vehicles, even if they are current. There are many examples of them throughout the game in every nation (experimental/prototypical). 

 

There are also plenty of examples of vehicles introduced to the game in / around the same time as they were in reality, such as the Leopard 2PL. 

 

The fact that it's such a recent vehicle still in testing would mean that you guys lack sufficient data to actually design and implement it, even haphazardly yet the dev team have done so regardless. If you don't call that a violation of the reqs then that means the Devs can be expected to add in every other very recently tested and/or introduced vehicle irregardless of available data amount. Additionally, the vehicle is blatantly overperforming yet nothing has been done to address it which is a very damning move on the responsible team's part.

Edited by GNDM [email protected]
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8 minutes ago, GNDM [email protected] said:

 

The fact that it's such a recent vehicle still in testing would mean that you guys lack sufficient data to actually design and implement it, even haphazardly yet the dev team have done so regardless. If you don't call that a violation of the reqs then that means the Devs can be expected to add in every other very recently tested and/or introduced vehicle irregardless of available data amount. Additionally, the vehicle is blatantly overperforming yet nothing has been done to address it which is a very damning move on the responsible team's part.

 

This was all previously explained and outlined here: https://warthunder.com/en/news/7289-development-reports-concerning-the-protection-of-post-war-combat-vehicles-en

 

The vehicle violates nothing at all. Sufficient information was available to model and introduce the vehicle, otherwise it simply would not have been introduced. 

 

As always, our dev team are closely monitoring the efficiency of new vehicles when they are added and will make any necessary balance changes to any new vehciles (BRs etc) when the next balance patch comes unless there is an abnormality statistically that requires more urgent changes.

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24 minutes ago, Smin1080p said:

 

This was all previously explained and outlined here: https://warthunder.com/en/news/7289-development-reports-concerning-the-protection-of-post-war-combat-vehicles-en

 

The vehicle violates nothing at all. Sufficient information was available to model and introduce the vehicle, otherwise it simply would not have been introduced. 

 

As always, our dev team are closely monitoring the efficiency of new vehicles when they are added and will make any necessary balance changes to any new vehciles (BRs etc) when the next balance patch comes unless there is an abnormality statistically that requires more urgent changes.

 

Then I don't want to see or hear anymore excuses on why the M1A2 Tusk is lacking DU inserts and I expect that issue to be remedied, yesterday.

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54 minutes ago, Smin1080p said:

our dev team are closely monitoring the efficiency of new vehicles when they are added and will make any necessary balance changes to any new vehciles (BRs etc) when the next balance patch comes unless there is an abnormality statistically that requires more urgent changes.

It would be nice to see a new vehicle added in to the game in a overwhelmed state and then get some buff.  2s38 is an example that adding an overpowered premium in a wrong BR and can not balance it because the data statistics is bad since new players could not perform well in them.

2 minutes ago, Thodin said:

 

Don't you get it? M1A2 Tusk isn't ru....

shhh, it's not a prem...

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5 hours ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

So no one can really say anything more about its AA capabilities and now we are derailing into the other topic? 

We are taking two 2S38s into squadron battles with another radar spaa, the radar SPAA mainly provides radar. The 2S38s destroy anything be it a plane, scout drone or a helicopter. The fact that it's HE-VT rounds do not have tracer is just a cherry on top. 

 

The 2S38 is a very, very good anti-everything with a drone. The fact that there are several top 15 squadrons which take the 2S38 over an actual SPAA makes you think. 

 

With that being said, I don't think it needs to be nerfed, just uptiered to 10.3-10.7.

 

But for now it may stay at 9.7...i do need to grind my top tier ruskies, and this is an absolutely perfect vehicle to do so in. 

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I love how CAS players go crazy over better Anti-CAS capabilities in ground forces. 

I think the Begleitpanzer has a suggestion running to add the tracking too, because there was a solution from the manufacturer for that as well. 

 

 

Now onto the topic, the simple answer is no, do NOT nerf that capability. 

There is a significant difference (at high tier) between light tanks that can track an enemy plane or heli and a radar-SPAA. 

 

The light tank will have to SEE you. 

So the moment you show your helicopter and someone sees you, then you become a target. 

Keep in mind, when a Heli shows up on the battlefield there is at least one person in chat to write "heli xxx" with xxx being the direction. 

So just because some vehicles are now able to put more accuracy onto their shot doesn't make them OP and it's ultimately your skill that will determine if you can make kills or not. 

 

The radar guided SPAA on the other hand will have the benefit of the radar to get the indication of where your heli is when you show up on the battlefield and therefore can either watch that direction very, very carefully or is the person who also puts the warning in chat. 

And yes, the SPAA at high tier is more capable, but even with Radar and IRST I still have pilots that sneak up on me and take me out, so they're not as OP as you probably hope them to be. 

 

And last but not least, it's the team effort that counts. 

A single SPAA can do a lot, but if there is more than 2 enemy CAS players in the air it can be overwhelmed quite easily. Having light tanks available to deal with helicopters frees the SPAA to deal with the planes. And this counts for all team combinations, whether they're russian or american or german or whoever else will receive that capability next. 

 

Should the 2S38 be uptiered, yes for sure, just like the SU-25/K and a lot of other things too. Until this happens, we'll have to play with what we've got. 

 

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17 hours ago, Thodin said:

 

Don't you get it? M1A2 Tusk isn't ru....

Right, how silly of me to forget that only the Russian vehicles get the best coded performance, tech and BR placement 9 times out of 10.

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10 minutes ago, GNDM [email protected] said:

Right, how silly of me to forget that only the Russian vehicles get the best coded performance, tech and BR placement 9 times out of 10.

same story with british challanger 2's, they lack armor where they should have, like the canon breach, and the armor packes Tes for example is so wrong, even tho they have ben given clear data and sources on them, they out right refuse to use the sources, even tho they are clear sources from the manufacture.

at the same time, russian tanks have armor that is equal to the armor it should have with the ERA on it, then they just add the ERA a second time just to make it "competitive"

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9 minutes ago, Yansomi said:

same story with british challanger 2's, they lack armor where they should have, like the canon breach, and the armor packes Tes for example is so wrong, even tho they have ben given clear data and sources on them, they out right refuse to use the sources, even tho they are clear sources from the manufacture.

at the same time, russian tanks have armor that is equal to the armor it should have with the ERA on it, then they just add the ERA a second time just to make it "competitive"

 

And even to this day there's still the denial of Russian Bias. Truly baffling, isn't it? 

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3 hours ago, GNDM [email protected] said:

 

And even to this day there's still the denial of Russian Bias. Truly baffling, isn't it? 

Wasnt there like an historical consultant or something for chinese vehicles that kept finding "Sekrit" documents to nerf them because he hated them ? Wonder who holds the same position for NATO tanks.

Edited by MagicalMethod
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I'm sure its just an enormous coincidence that when new mechanics are added to the game they just happen to be when Russian vehicles are added.

 

See, its not even russian bias, or some sort of vatnik coping mechanism.  It's just simply bad business practice. They'd rather periodically release another piece of russian xxx to earn a few big sales in the short term at the expense of thousands of players leaving and the reputation of russian bias ensuring more never darken their doors in the first place. 

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17 minutes ago, Capt_Yunaris said:

I'm sure its just an enormous coincidence that when new mechanics are added to the game they just happen to be when Russian vehicles are added.

not really new, spaag had them for years...

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4 minutes ago, SrNowel59917 said:

not really new, spaag had them for years...

 

First off, it was a system restricted to SPAAG but when they added the S38 they suddenly felt the need to add a system that the bradley and other vehicles should've had years ago. 

Secondly, it is far superior to SPAAG optical tracking.  Certainly better than any SPAAG I own. 

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Just again, its not possible anymore to bring a chopper like Bo-105...2S28 is everywhere...and its concealed HE-VT shells will always get you, often before you even get into position. Its a disgusting addition. 

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1 hour ago, Thodin said:

Just again, its not possible anymore to bring a chopper like Bo-105...2S28 is everywhere...and its concealed HE-VT shells will always get you, often before you even get into position. Its a disgusting addition. 

I guess not flying in a straight line is too much for you... shame... 

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Just to see if what @Thodin said is true, I made a line-up with Leo2k and all BO helis. Everytime I was playing against russians I haven't been shot down by any 2S38, in fact I saw only a small number of them and by looking at the kill-feed I could notice, that CV90105 is a bigger threat than any other premium tank at the moment. I was shot down once by a BMP-2M because I got too close to the battlefield as I wanted to find any remaining 2S38 instead of killing any other enemy vechicles. BMP-2 and BMP-2M are the easiest frags for heli. 

 

The most amsuing thing was that in most matches, fully loaded with ATGMs BO costed me around 504 SP which can be archieved by just getting an assist in Leo2k :lol2:. In any other scenario, one frag was enough to spawn a heli :good:. So sorry but no sorry, 2S38 is not such a big threat to the air as You are portraying it to be. (In all games to this point I used non-premium BOs, both early and later vesion)

 

Just after making this post I have finally been able to find an 2S38 and kill it with an easy on close range (sadly this time with my premium BO as I wanted to test it out too) 1255707745_shot2022_11_1914_40_15.jpg.d8

Edited by ULQ_LOVER
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1 hour ago, ULQ_LOVER said:

Just to see if what @Thodin said is true, I made a line-up with Leo2k and all BO helis. Everytime I was playing against russians I haven't been shot down by any 2S38

 

Take everything Thodin says with a grain of salt, especially regarding Germany and russia. He'd make us believe that 2S38 is better SPAA than FlaRakRad, meanwhile it really isn't any better than VEAK, M247 or Lvkv 9040. I too used BO 105 a little bit and never had any problems with BMPs or 2S38s, all it takes is flying low and not hovering in one place. Hitting a moving heli from 2.5-3km using HE-VT is literally impossible, even with the supposedly OP IRST tracker that 2S38 has (it's worse than actual radar lock but doesn't give a warning).

 

 

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On 17/11/2022 at 21:03, Smin1080p said:

 

This was all previously explained and outlined here: https://warthunder.com/en/news/7289-development-reports-concerning-the-protection-of-post-war-combat-vehicles-en

 

The vehicle violates nothing at all. Sufficient information was available to model and introduce the vehicle, otherwise it simply would not have been introduced. 

 

As always, our dev team are closely monitoring the efficiency of new vehicles when they are added and will make any necessary balance changes to any new vehciles (BRs etc) when the next balance patch comes unless there is an abnormality statistically that requires more urgent changes.

how convinient that all new premiums overperform and get balanced after enough "kachiiiiing" rings in devs ears....

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