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Mid-map AAA is making prop air RB an awful experience ... just why?


Haicma
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Exactly as the title says. It seems like mid-map AAA has been buffed yet again this patch. No, I'm not talking about those Gepards and M163s with actual damage model and their glare of death, but stationary AAA emplacements.

 

They are now only slightly less potent than AF AAA. I do not see the rationale behind this; why are players being punished for simply playing the objective and trying to deplete the enemy's ticket, or even fighting other players at low altitude?

 

In a ~4.0 air RB match over the Hurtgen map today:

 

1. I was set on fire by AAA in my Cannonbusa, crash and burned.

2. A Soviet B-25 had one of its engines set on fire by AAA while trying to groundpound, it too crashed and burned.

3. A P-51C was set on fire by AAA while dogfighting, managed to put it out, only to be set afire by AAA again. It also crashed and burned.

4. At least 3 other fighters who developed oil or water leak just by flying near AAA to take out AI targets.

 

I understand mid-map AAA has always been powerful on certain maps (like Malta), but now it appears to have been buffed across the board.

 

Edited by Haicma
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Had a match in my P-40c the other day where I was forced to fly back to base 3 times from random midfield AA damage. Lost all my fuel right as I was diving into my first engagement and had to glide home, Got back to the fight and immediately lost my radiator and oil cooler, then the 3rd tim lost all fuel plus the oil cooler and radiator.

 

Each time I had enemies follow me back to base, but I was in a P-40 so 7mm MGs are no threat if they don't hit my pilot, or don't hit the same parts that the AA wrecked. It's was a really frustrating match, because I mostly didn't get to play for 15 minutes.

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Agree a thousand times over. This is just  miserable. To the point that I'm making my first post in here because it's killing my fun with this game. I'm trying to ground pound at br 2.0, and if I fly near mid-map AA I instantly get lit up. If I fly towards an AA gun, it's even odds that I get  pilot sniped or set on fire. There is literally no way to avoid this. I can't kill the AA because they kill me before I can even start reducing their sniper fire. Dodging is impossible because the whole point of ground pounding is flying low and in a straight line. The only way to not get murdered is to not play ground attack planes. Which then begs the question of why the that part of the tech tree exists if the game devs seem so intent on making it a non-option for battles. I remember a time when AA wasn't so awful to go up against. Those were good days. 

 

Edit: I just got my engine killed by a gaggle of armored cars. My battle time was less than 5 minutes and I'm currently crew locked. This is literally everything wrong with the current meta in a nutshell. Nerf this already

Edited by wonderwaffl47253
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Agreed. 2 times 1 day shot down by aaa not at airfield while dogfighting. Incredible. WTH snail? I can count on my digits how many times in the previous 10 years. Yesterday was lit on fire but survived. Crazy.

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They have put the same AA mid-map (fast firing orange tracer) as the airfields have.

 

Unless you have good speed and can get out of it's range quickly, you are going to get hit.

 

 

And what is up with it ALWAYS hitting your engine and giving you Oil/Water leaks?

 

 

I'm wondering how long before people use something like a zero to fly low around some of this AA and bait a bunch of people to dive in and get minced by it (Troll).

 

 

Edited by DocProfit
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Why has the midmap AA been buffed again? This just keeps happening. The worst part is, it's just a RNG slot machine. Sometimes you can fly over the middle without problems, sometimes it just onetaps the player. Because this game should be focused on the PvP part, why is this tolerated??

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Operation map. Decided to use my Su-22 as Strike Aircraft and fitted four long range laser guided missiles. I flew to an NPC cluster in the enemy hinterland (took me like 10 minutes) just to get shot by an M163  on crack while at something like 2000m alt.

 

Air RB is the worst ingame mode for a variety of reasons. And every update new annoying stuff surfaces.

 

 

1008337180_shot2022_09_1801_00_25.jpg.3d

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Not to mention the changes to helicopter PvE. I liked the days of M163s killing my AH-1G before i could get in range, so kind of you to bring those days back gaijin.

 

They even buffed the AA in air arcade! Now when I go out with my low-level friends we're at risk of getting shot down by midmap AA in our biplanes. In arcade! It happened 5 times in one session. This is not fun, it's just driving away new players before they've even had a chance to progress.

 

 

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1 hour ago, BlackberryAvar said:

Not to mention the changes to helicopter PvE. I liked the days of M163s killing my AH-1G before i could get in range, so kind of you to bring those days back gaijin.

 

They even buffed the AA in air arcade! Now when I go out with my low-level friends we're at risk of getting shot down by midmap AA in our biplanes. In arcade! It happened 5 times in one session. This is not fun, it's just driving away new players before they've even had a chance to progress.

 

 

 

At least they can get the feel of WT early on. I also think airfield camping and space climbing bots should be a part of tutorial. Why lie to new players, show them how great the game is :)

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25min timer, auto ticket bleed, several people dying per match to AAA - it's clear Gaijin is trying everything to make the games as fast as possible.

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okay so, playing some prop air RB for the first time since the patch tonight. bounced between 1.7 all the way to 7.0.

 

I played 6 games in a squad with a friend. In 3 of those games I *died* to Mid map AA,  In two of the other games I took damage from mid map AA that forced me to RTB. (plus in one of the games where it killed me) My friend died to it twice and had to RTB with damage from it 3 times. 
 

In 5 of those games at least one other player died to mid map AA. usually it was more than one other, multiple on both teams were killed because mid map AA crippled them and prevented them from fighting with an enemy player who killed them. 

This AA was laying down accurate fire up to 5km away. It was most accurate when I was flying away from it, that's when I took the most damage. 

This means that fighting over the enemy teams ground targets is suicide unless you are at significant altitude, and that your entire half of the map is basically just as good as Airfield camping. 

Trying to ground pound is complete suicide because AA just chews you up. 

 

What the heck was gaijin thinking?

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Lost another Strike aircraft to a midmap Gepard NPC, which was driving with one of the columns which are supposed to be ticket worthy. Common Air RB match. On some maps AA vehicles are toxic, on some not. Its just a bad mechanic.

 

The next match I decided to attack a cruiser on a pacific map and got AA'ed down as well. Was a russian npc cruiser. 

 

Its a "bit" meh^^

 

 

Edited by Thodin
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Well, just finished a match of air RB. I can thoroughly recommend the M26... great handling, good survivability and acceleration although I'd call the climb rate a little bit meh. Overall it's a very good fighter plane. Midmap AA is a little bit rough but not as bad; it can at least be somewhat countered. I thoroughly recommend this new realistic mode, although there seems to be a little bit of a bug... the planes aren't allowed to fly more than 3 meters off the ground.

 

Hopefully gaijin will patch this soon.

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On 16/09/2022 at 09:14, Haicma said:

Exactly as the title says. It seems like mid-map AAA has been buffed yet again this patch. No, I'm not talking about those Gepards and M163s with actual damage model and their glare of death, but stationary AAA emplacements.

 

They are now only slightly less potent than AF AAA. I do not see the rationale behind this; why are players being punished for simply playing the objective and trying to deplete the enemy's ticket, or even fighting other players at low altitude?

 

In a ~4.0 air RB match over the Hurtgen map today:

 

1. I was set on fire by AAA in my Cannonbusa, crash and burned.

2. A Soviet B-25 had one of its engines set on fire by AAA while trying to groundpound, it too crashed and burned.

3. A P-51C was set on fire by AAA while dogfighting, managed to put it out, only to be set afire by AAA again. It also crashed and burned.

4. At least 3 other fighters who developed oil or water leak just by flying near AAA to take out AI targets.

 

I understand mid-map AAA has always been powerful on certain maps (like Malta), but now it appears to have been buffed across the board.

 

It's definitely more realistic than it was, and you should be wary of it now much as pilots were in WWII.

 

But this isn't WWII. This is War Thunder. You have heavy metal props with radar flying against wooden flying AT guns.

 

Gameplay clearly plays a big role and I think historical accuracy might need to be shoved aside to make way for gameplay here.

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Gaijin allegedly buffed AAA because it wasn't effective enough for top tiers.  If this is true, it's the usual case of Gaijin throwing the baby out with the bathwater when they rebalance stuff.

 

I've heard two competing explanations though.  One of them is that it was to placate fighter jocks that whine that Air RB isn't just a team deathmatch, which is possible but imho less likely than the more cynical explanation.  The more cynical explanation is that Gaijin saw that people were flying mid-ranked attackers as a relatively stress-free way to grind SL and so decided to indirectly nerf it by giving AAA a buff.

 

17 hours ago, Xx_Pappy_xX said:

It's definitely more realistic than it was, and you should be wary of it now much as pilots were in WWII.

 

But this isn't WWII. This is War Thunder. You have heavy metal props with radar flying against wooden flying AT guns.

 

Gameplay clearly plays a big role and I think historical accuracy might need to be shoved aside to make way for gameplay here.


AAA was actually rather ineffective at killing planes, statistically speaking.  Its main benefit was psychological, as seeing tracers flying at you or flak bursting around you tends to mess up your aim with bombing and strafing runs; it may even make you break off your attack completely.

 

Of course, conversely, CAS was also rather ineffective at killing things like tanks, usually knocking their tracks off at best (which at least immobilizes them) - really good CAS pilots like Hans-Ulrich Rudel were the exception to the rule.  Softer targets like trucks and fixed targets like pillboxes were another story though.

Edited by Z3r0_
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1 hour ago, Z3r0_ said:

I've heard two competing explanations though.  One of them is that it was to placate fighter jocks that whine that Air RB isn't just a team deathmatch, which is possible but imho less likely than the more cynical explanation.  The more cynical explanation is that Gaijin saw that people were flying mid-ranked attackers as a relatively stress-free way to grind SL and so decided to indirectly nerf it by giving AAA a buff.

 

Yeah, but before the buff flying attackers was already almost impossible. Getting a water leak was pretty much guaranteed, even in planes with armored radiators like the IL-2. It is almost impossible to lose coolant in the IL-2 from hits of 7.x caliber, yet the flak fragments of the midmap AA will give you a water leak almost instantly. This imposes a soft limit on the amount of ground targets you can take out, since staying too long will result in the loss of your plane due to engine damage. And this buff takes that situation (which was bad enough in props already) and makes it so jets can get sniped.

 

Not to mention airfield AA got buffed in sim. God forbid we get to fly airplanes without having to worry about AI ground fire.

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On 16/09/2022 at 12:13, Ub3rshadow said:

Wait, they buffed it again!? I was eagerly hoping that the update notes were implying a nerf...

 

Why can't this company be normal?

 

Actually I'm glad they're literally doing the opposite of what people want and are actively trying to make the game objectively more frustrating. I'm glad because these xxxx changes to midfield AAA finally was the nail in the coffin for me, I quit not long after the update dropped and I couldn't be happier.

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Just adding another voice that mid-map AAA is beyond ridiculous right now. I can understand not having mid-map AAA be useless so that there's some risk-reward for ground pounding, but right now it's completely un-fun, especially at lower tiers where you're too slow and lack appreciable armor.

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58 minutes ago, WeaselKnees said:

Just adding another voice that mid-map AAA is beyond ridiculous right now. I can understand not having mid-map AAA be useless so that there's some risk-reward for ground pounding, but right now it's completely un-fun, especially at lower tiers where you're too slow and lack appreciable armor.

 

Speed means nothing and armor even less. I just was shot down by a ZSU-57-2 going 1200 km/h on an operation map.

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10 hours ago, BlackberryAvar said:

 

Yeah, but before the buff flying attackers was already almost impossible. Getting a water leak was pretty much guaranteed, even in planes with armored radiators like the IL-2. It is almost impossible to lose coolant in the IL-2 from hits of 7.x caliber, yet the flak fragments of the midmap AA will give you a water leak almost instantly. This imposes a soft limit on the amount of ground targets you can take out, since staying too long will result in the loss of your plane due to engine damage. And this buff takes that situation (which was bad enough in props already) and makes it so jets can get sniped.

 

Not to mention airfield AA got buffed in sim. God forbid we get to fly airplanes without having to worry about AI ground fire.

 

Yeah AAA used to be a death by a thousand cuts, now it's just a single "**** you" that ends your game based on RNG.

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