[Development] Rankings Challenge - feedback thread

[TheJEMscopez 0]

This is absolutely terrible. I haven't spawned into both ranked games and with only 2v2 in tanks its just so scummy. If someone leaves its not even like theres a team to support you any more. Your just alone. Please never implement this into the game. Thank you

[[email protected] 0]

My mate and I havent been able to join a game together in the 2v2 mode. For some reason only the squad leader is able to play the game while the other just spectates. This has happened 4 times in a row now. 

[Bruce_R1 1,946]

19 hours ago, Metrallaroja said:

All top 50 players in tss have been asking for the instructor to be locked (Force virtual instr ucor --> Yes) in RB air duels for ages, why we should keep such a bad thing in this recently born mode?

Ok, so, I don't doubt that the people here are pointing out a real issue. And I never said I was an air duellist, although I have friends who are; I play the other tournament modes. So I don't have a dog in this hunt.

 

The fact remains, though, if this was an issue before yesterday, people (the "top 50 tournament players") have been really quiet about it. I really had to dig to find ANY threads on this forum other than this one mentioning this issue.

 

There's also the issue of what forcing instructor says about the accuracy of Gaijin's FMs. If the player using full-real is getting the plane's real performance, and the forced instructor mode player is getting something significantly gimped... There may be an argument for letting the planes "fly as they actually flew" here, too.

 

Regardless I think my point here is you need to be consistent on this rules change across all competitive modes, not just the new one rolled out yesterday.

 

 

[kacper1kol 3]

Tank player here, played 10, won 7, 30-something kills.  Overall mode is ok, but no.

 

 

1. Not the biggest issue, but separate random and platoon players.

 

2. Do something about lvl 100 vs lvl 10/20/30, playing with another random lvl 100 against low lvl players and winning 1-6/2-6 even when they are in the platoon isnt very fun, especially when they play like BOTs.

 

3. WTF? Remove option to quit the match and if player do not load in time make it an instant draw(no one gets anything).

 

4. I would really love to see the zone removed or at least lower amount of point it takes, cuz right now spawn->zone takes about 2,5k points and it often ruins late game 1v1s.

 

5. Zone problem again. In this match I got f'ed hard, ended with only 1 kill and this gigachad boi won 2vs5(respawns) but in the end lost, because of the zone. If all players in one team are dead make it an instant end.

 

6. Remove option to put decals, decorations, camo. I dont care much about bush-44, cuz its not a big issue for me, but for lower skill players which have problems with hitting clear turrents its pretty much gg.

 

7. WTF? again. How spotting works in this mode? Guy just respawned and instantly got spotted on his spawn,. Also remove markers.

 

That's all.

[RoxyMigurdia 13]

I Just Try Ground 2VS2 And I Think Maybe We Can Separate Players Whose Have Teammate And Whose just Play Alone 

[LeChance 903]

On 06/09/2022 at 10:22, JaszczombPl said:

Played few air matches and thats what I think:

-Preparation takes to much time. If someone joined and spawned I think he is ready to go, no need to wait 30 sec before you can even move (and we have to wait before start of every round).
Also we can't fire for 20 seconds after the round has started and honestly I don't know. On the one hand it requires more skill to win, sometimes very long, dogfight, but on the other killing enemy and surviving a headon also takes some skill (and little bit of luck), worst case scenario both players die and round is a draw. I think I would prefer second option without 20sec before you can fire.

-It's probably the game's as a whole problem but I had 2 situation where we crashed into eachother after firing at the end of the dogfight and both times I was dead and enemy wasn't.
1. I lost my wing and began to spin without control (counted as dead) and enemy was mostly fine and alive. -> Well ok, sometimes happens, I think not much to do about it without changing the damage model so to much work.
2. We both lost one of our wings and began to spin, but I was counted as dead and enemy wasn't, so he won the round. -> Considering it's meant to be competitive mode with ranking etc. there shouldn't be anything like that happening.

-I know that more matches means more accurate ranking for every player but at the same time 50 battles is quite a lot. One of my matches lasted for about 10 minutes because of how long one of the dogfight took to determine the winner.
Also we don't earn ANY silver lions or RP, I know that being limited to 1 vehicle means RP probably won't go where we want and/or will be limited but come on. If good rewards won't be guaranteed (not saying they should) for X matches played then I think for most of the players it will be a waste of time, they won't earn SL or anything special (except orders or boosters but I don't think it will be worth) and at the same time waste their time which they could spend to research new vehicles while playing normal battles, which are also more entertaining. It means that I fear ranking battles will be played only by best of the best, able to earn top rewards so their time won't go to waste.

I think idea is great but needs some polishing.

This is literally how all the "Duel" events from the past have been set up, and it is actually good thing. I wish they would implement this into Random Battles as well, stop all that nonsensical firing from spawn that happens in EVERY single game it seems like, give players time to communicate in those scenarios too(they prolly won't, but it should still be an option). The spawning system in the game was in need of an overhaul in all modes for ages now, there is nothing more "unrealistic" than how players enter matches as is. It signals the beginning of the match and is a good, fair & balanced set up. I think it should be everywhere for all game modes & matches . . .  but that's just my opinion.

[The_Dion_ 3]

Remove the Sim Controls in 1x1 Air Battles, literally unfair to anyone IT'S AN RB TOURNAMENT NOT SB

[Putins_tiny_pp 0]

we really need bigger maps for the air mode please i had 2 fights that lasted for ages and both ran out of the map and i bloody lost due to the other dude getting back in a a second left it was bs 

 

 

Edited September 7, 2022 by Black_Knight_D97

[EndlessPaiN 0]

ok but how do i start the practice

[[email protected] 2,121]

11 hours ago, Bruce_R1 said:

The fact remains, though, if this was an issue before yesterday, people (the "top 50 tournament players") have been really quiet about it. I really had to dig to find ANY threads on this forum other than this one mentioning this issue.

 

It's been one of the most commonly brought up issues for Air RB tournaments over the past 2-3 years. The E-sports section of the forum is de-facto dead, and most of the players that are saying to remove "Sim" controls are part of that top 50 for Air RB tournaments (although just participating basically puts you top 50 because the community is relatively tiny).

 

It's not an issue of people in the top 50 get owned by some guy using SB...most of them know how to use SB. It's that using SB just adds another layer of complication to the experience while adding nothing of value. Between two experienced duelists the one that knows how to use SB better will win, and it's basically like having a cheat code in your back pocket where you can force a win against most players.

 

And it's also hard to tell if other guy switches to SB controls so the best bet is to just assume everyone is using SB from the start.

 

[Metrallaroja 1,244]

19 hours ago, Bruce_R1 said:

The fact remains, though, if this was an issue before yesterday, people (the "top 50 tournament players") have been really quiet about it. I really had to dig to find ANY threads on this forum other than this one mentioning this issue.

 

Not hard at all, btw on this last one the user now named as guest was BuzzBeurling, a top duelist.

Anyways I think everyone that plays tss knows that posting on the forum is useless, except if there is a chance of changing things with a new mode and a feedback threat like it is this case.

Also this players are active on discord, if you were on tss, duel discord servers etc you would know this issue for years.

If you go to the russian forum you will also see that top duelists like OpsGun65 are asking for the same thing.

 

 

Edited September 8, 2022 by Metrallaroja

[Metrallaroja 1,244]

6 hours ago, Metrallaroja said:

If you go to the russian forum you will also see that top duelists like OpsGun65 are asking for the same thing.

Also Andrew, being the top 1 right now:

 

"After waiting 30 minutes between battles on tss, this mode seemed divine.

 

But I'm going to ask for a forced mouse aim in duels.

 

My opinion and argumentation is backed up by the fact that I'm top 1 in the ladder.

 

It's too easy and uninteresting for me to fly against random players. Even if you take a random statist(that is not duelists), he can not apply his skills well in this mode. I came across opponents with 10-20 K\D and you can still win by playing with 1 arm if you abuse mouse-joystick.

 

In the end when good air rb players will enter the tournament, reach the top 50, they will get spanked by me or other guy who abuses sb controls. After that their interest in the event will be lost completely. Then they will go tell their friends how this event frustrates them, scaring away players. A chain reaction of negativity. What's it for?

 

You need to attract new people, not the same bunch of mouse-joystick abusers that will farm rewards playing with 1 hand. And you cannot expect random players to start learning mouse-joystick.

 

To begin with no one will teach them for free, and they will not learn on their own because it is too difficult and its hard to find motivation. This skill is not really needed that much in random battles.

 

Furthermore, they do not want to learn how to fly in the SB. Even I did not want to learn how to fly with mouse-joystcik, but I had to force myself to be competitive. Nothing fun about it for an RB guy.

 

You didn't patent and develop the mouse-aim for nothing. No other flight simulator has such convenient mouse and keyboard controls. Let people fully enjoy mouse-aim dueling in a level playing field, without the toxic abuses.
Aboba"

 

https://forum.warthunder.ru/index.php?/topic/324448-testiruem-reitingovye-boi/&do=findComment&comment=8936267

Edited September 8, 2022 by Metrallaroja

[Grainman_ 22]

I've played about a dozen matches each of Air and Ground in this now, and I've enjoyed myself. It's got a few issues, and I don't see it ever replacing the standard game modes, but it's fun and I could see myself jumping into a few matches every now and again.

 

Positives:

 

* The time-slots are good and a significant improvement over the ones for Squadron battles. And the UI makes it clear when they are.

* It's good from a balance perspective for everyone to have the same vehicles and crews. It's nice knowing that you're on an even footing with your opponents. It's purely your skill and team-work versus their skill and team-work with a bit of luck thrown in.

* There's an intensity and a weight to your actions that can be lacking in the normal modes. Matches can be won or loss on a single missed shot.

* It lets you play random vehicles that you wouldn't have access to otherwise.

* You can play without having to worry about economics, repair costs, and all that jazz.

* I think I've improved my dogfighting in Ground RB just from the practice I got from the dozen or matches I've fought in this mode.

 

Negatives and suggestions:

 

* When you check the leaderboard it doesn't seem to include your last match for some reason. (So if you've played 7 matches it only shows the results for the first 6).

* It seems you need to re-choose your Aircraft ammo each match. It does save them between rounds in a match, and between matches for tanks, but not between matches for aircraft.

* When your aircraft gets shot down there's a big "Return to Hangar" button. I've noticed several people quit after their first death; I suspect they click it not realising that there is another match. This button should probably be removed.

* It's not entirely clear how you win or lose in the Air match. I'm still not sure if it's first to some point total, or first to win two rounds. There is a pop-up message that tries to explain, but it seems to be wrong. You don't get a 1000 points for winning, you get 750 points for winning, and a variable number for shooting down your opponent (as little as 0 for a manoeuvre kill)

* The 30s delay after you spawn is probably a bit long. You've basically got a 10-15s delay between pressing the "To Battle" button and spawning, and then another 30s after you spawn before you start moving. A little delay is probably a good idea, but shorter is probably better.

* It isn't clear how spotting and being marked on the map works in Ground. Possibly there should be an article explaining it.

* I'd like to see more about how your rank is calculated. Perhaps a log view that shows you what effect each match you've played had on your points?

Edited September 8, 2022 by Grainman_
A note about the 30s delay at the start of Air matches.

[kacper1kol 3]

6 minutes ago, Grainman_ said:

When you check the leaderboard it doesn't seem to include your last match for some reason. (So if you've played 7 matches it only shows the results for the first 6).

You need to wait for a moment leaderboard refreshes about every 5 min

 

7 minutes ago, Grainman_ said:

* I'd like to see more about how your rank is calculated. Perhaps a log view that shows you what effect each match you've played had on your points?

https://wiki.warthunder.com/Ranked_Matchmaking Maybe this will help.

[Grainman_ 22]

6 minutes ago, kacper1kol said:

You need to wait for a moment leaderboard refreshes about every 5 min

 

Oh, thank you.

 

(though it would be nice if it updated at least your own score straight away)

 

6 minutes ago, kacper1kol said:

https://wiki.warthunder.com/Ranked_Matchmaking Maybe this will help.

 

Yeah, that helps explain it, but I still wouldn't mind seeing it in action. Hence my suggestion of a log that displays something like:

.

* Match 1: Victory v. xXplayer123Xx (1234) +15.9; new total: 1015.9

* Match 2: Defeat v. bob (1300) -3.3; new total 1012.6

* Match 3: Victory v. _21315415 (1601) +19.3; new total 1031.9

[[email protected] 3]

I really like the Ranking mode. The only problem with it other than the rewards is the fact that you can use bushes. I think that new modes are awesome and really spice things up. I played the battle royale back in the day and it was really fun, and the rewards were good as well. The attack defend mode was awesome and I would really like to see it return. I want more game modes and this is a good start.

 

Edit: the reason bushes are a problem is people that have the tank and bushes can put bushes on and the people that don't can't, not only that but the same reason you aced the crew and spaded the tanks is the same reason why you shouldn't be allowed to use bushes on the tanks for this mode.

Edited September 8, 2022 by [email protected]
To clarify why bushes are a problem

[Time_Magic 0]

On the rewards tab, under seasonal rewards, it currently shows the “current position:x” representing myself and my friend’s No2 tournament position and not our seasonal position. I believe this is a mistake and it should be displaying seasonal position here as it’s in the seasonal tab and representing our position for the seasonal rewards.

[IesousEinaiTheos 460]

@Stona
I believe there should be a requirement for how long the account has been on warthunder and how often it has been active... Especially for Wings of Prey.

There should be an activity requirement because the amount of Alternate accounts is INSANE!
Accounts with lvl7, lvl16, lvl9, etc... They are obviously not new players due to their mastery of the game which would take well over a year in most circumstances.

Top 100 is filled with alternative accounts pushing players who should be in the top 100 down further than they actually are. Because players in the top 10-30 are playing on more than 1 account filling the leaderboards. So a top 10 player is taking up 2,3, or 4 spots in the top 100 instead of the 1 spot they should only be able to have.

For instance XFish_ is a lvl 0 account that right now has 2088 ranking and is in position 34. Meaning someone lost their chance at the title and decal (which is extremely coveted) since a top 10 player wants to make an alt and get it into the top 100.
Looking at the top 100 right now, over 25% of the top 100 are alts.
And if XFish_ is not an obvious alternative account...
BanSimControls69 is a lvl 0 with 1,951 ranking and placed 84th. So some how this lvl 0 has absolute mastery over the game and knows all the controversies of Tournaments.... Despite him being lvl 0... AND NEVER PLAYING A SINGLE GAME!

Edit: I have played in the top 100, I am currently 57th place with 2007 ranking. I can tell you for a fact, there are a lot of ALT. Accounts... There is 0 chance a lvl 16 knows every tactic in the game and has 100% mastery over MEC and SIM controls for rate fighting then transitions to MouseAim for a 100% accurate 0.5 mile shot.
So I am not saying this by simply looking at the top 100, I have played in the top 100, I have faced people as high as 10th place... 
The top 100 is littered with alt accounts.
And I would hate to see people start using this as a way to make a new account then sell it due to the stickers or titles it just got...

Edited September 9, 2022 by Hikotai

[IesousEinaiTheos 460]

Alt accounts in top 100 (that are painfully obvious).
THE_CHEESIEST lvl 8, place 16
Youre_my_clone lvl 18, place 23
An1malTra1ner lvl10, place 32
XFish_ lvl 0, place 35
KifeR lvl 7 place 37
Xx__Sauron__xX lvl 9, place 43
Dead__Outside lvl 12, place 55
Baudr1llard lvl 14, place 78
BanSimControls69 lvl 0 place 85
FemboyFertilizer lvl 17 place 93


So right there we have 10 obvious alternate accounts. (This does not include alternative accounts above lvl 20)
So just with the painfully obvious, we have 10 places in the top 100 that are gone because someone or somepeople in the top 10 are spamming accounts. 

@k_vro @__Plumbum__ @Home_Of_Phobic @Tony_Yang_233 @TTSHood @UKoctane @Misaka17592 @Yeahman @Xianzhen @TacticalTyrone_
All the players listed above have had their top 100 place taken by a blatantly obvious alternate account. 

I hope you guys can fix this before the rewards end, as the gladiator title and decal are highly prized...

 

Edited September 9, 2022 by Hikotai

[UKoctane 2,508]

1 hour ago, Hikotai said:

Alt accounts in top 100 (that are painfully obvious).
THE_CHEESIEST lvl 8, place 16
Youre_my_clone lvl 18, place 23
An1malTra1ner lvl10, place 32
XFish_ lvl 0, place 35
KifeR lvl 7 place 37
Xx__Sauron__xX lvl 9, place 43
Dead__Outside lvl 12, place 55
Baudr1llard lvl 14, place 78
BanSimControls69 lvl 0 place 85
FemboyFertilizer lvl 17 place 93


So right there we have 10 obvious alternate accounts. (This does not include alternative accounts above lvl 20)
So just with the painfully obvious, we have 10 places in the top 100 that are gone because someone or somepeople in the top 10 are spamming accounts. 

@k_vro @__Plumbum__ @Home_Of_Phobic @Tony_Yang_233 @TTSHood @UKoctane @Misaka17592 @Yeahman @Xianzhen @TacticalTyrone_
All the players listed above have had their top 100 place taken by a blatantly obvious alternate account. 

I hope you guys can fix this before the rewards end, as the gladiator title and decal are highly prized...

 

Thanks for letting me know I need to grind a little more for that decal ahahaha.

[RoxyMigurdia 13]

is over？

 

[LuckyTrollMaster 11]

16 minutes ago, RoxyMigurdia said:

is over？

 

The tab is gone for me too, while it should last for at least 2 more hours

 

[WTMarc 140]

I really dont like the arcarde markers in a realistic match...... Takes no skill to spot enemies and you cannot hide. 
Another time consuming and not really rewarding event in my opinion. (Who has the time to do another 50 matches that take around 5min+ when you dont get any RP or SL)....

And iirc the intended way to "play" WT is to "grind"

Edited September 9, 2022 by WTMarc

[Mr_Volkstein 26]

Honestly after playing over 100 matches over 4 days i have extremely mixed to bad feeling, let's start with listing out positives:
-timetables are okayish instead of horrendous like on squadron battles, but why not just make it permanently open? You still have a 50 game limit, why make timetables? 
-the gamemode itself worked fine, there seemed to be no issues with getting into a match solo or not being able to spawn or other gamebreaking bugs of that type
-the UI was clean and understandable
Now for the negatives:

-There is no skill based matchmaker or alt-prevention at all, you can get matched with peoples that are unicorns sitting on top 5 places, 3 times in a row, lose each time, make the point gap bigger each time cuz they gain and you lose, but still play against them, how is this remotely fair? The gap widens each time you lose yet u still play against them and lose more due to seeing same guys that f*cked you over 3rd or 4th time in a row.
-Map choice was bad for the type of sweaty gameplay this mode was, Advance to the rhine especially due to ability to shot thru 4 buildings and one shot anyone that got in the line, very realistic for APHE or APFSDS to do this, Normandy because one side could get to more advantageous spots faster, Sinai was the only decent choice but ruined by using middle point.
-The global point system was just bad, you could lose way more points than you win, and you didn't even knew how many points u lost or won after the game, cuz the scores are only shown on the leaderboard, and only updated once every few minutes which is extremely frustrating, how can even indie games with ranked modes have live points update but a game with over 100K players online at same time and millions actively playing it can't?
-vehicle choice was outright awfull, either extremely trolly machines (T-44, XM803) or paper-mache glass cannons (Bat-chat, Type 74), there was no balanced, average vehicle that would reward you for playing it correctly.
-peoples that owned the provided vehicles could completely bush it up which rendered the whole "equal footing" idea non-existent
-netcode, as always, sucks, random flying tanks with 40 ping and 2% pl, people not rendering in, getting shot by someone with a turret 90 degs to you, great experience... e-sports ready
-the cap point shouldn't be there, it provided no tactical advantage whatsoever to capture it, in my over 100 games, maybe like 3 or 4 were won/lost because of ticket bleed, it only made the experience worse
-time for the game was way too long for a 2v2
-absolutely no reward for wining each game, as in squibs you are just wasting time, not getting anything besides leaderboard points which didn't ensure anything, if u couldn't play more, you would just fall out
-when playing solo you were being matched against duos
-arcade position markers in realistic... not fun, just make games shorter so people can't camp infinitely

You could say the whole thing was somewhat fun... until you didn't get fckd over by netcode, get matched against same much better people than you few times in a row, die cuz a part or a crewmember magically absorbed a projectile, etc.
Additionally the points system is just outright terrible, you have no progression, nothing to be happy about, if u aren't safely in top 50, if u stop playing u will fall out top 100 and get nothing... there is no rank to look at anywhere, no bronze, silver, gold, plat, diamond or whatever top unicorn rank, to just be happy about that you achieved it, even if there is no reward for it, it means a lot, only points and a meaningless leaderboard which only favours constant playing is outright bad and not how you should design ranking mode, u can have a leaderbord in like the top of the top, but why make people lose their har earned spot cuz they stopped playing? Why make it that "top XXX" people get the rewards? It should be peoples that get XXXX amount of POINTs that get rewarded.
How can you guys make the system so bare bones and even in testing phase, when even glancing not looking or copying other ranked modes in other game shows that you need something more than soulless number which you don't even see live cuz of the way it is updated, is it really that hard to even just give us a simple textbox saying what rank you are, or better yet, make a proper ranked system instead of using a leaderboard as in a tournament? Ranked modes in games are fun because you progress by fighting EQUALLY SKILLED PEOPLE, and you have no place, you have a RANK, that's what the mode is about, it's in the name, but what we got instead? Frequent seal-clubbing, broken spots and buildings you can shoot thru and a tournament leaderboard system instead of a ranked system.

Im overall dissapointed, we got a tournament disguised as a ranked mode without any ranks to climb thru... or any objectives aside Top 100, it's as if a game like CSGO/LoL/R6S only had global-elite/challenger/wahtever top rank aviable and if u didn't reach it u got nothing....
If this stays like that i fear it will end up like SRB, not very popular or rewarding, also limiting it only to RB is punishing SB and AB players for not choosing the right gamemode.
 

Edited September 9, 2022 by Mr_Volkstein

[UKoctane 2,508]

Are the rewards just for top 100 on the season leaderboard (the 2nd tab) or are they for both the no.1 and no.2 competitions each?