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[Development] Rankings Challenge - feedback thread


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4 minutes ago, esapekkis said:

 

Ease of aiming is not the only advantage mosue aim has. Superior stall characteristics goes also clearly to instructor controlled planes. Instantaneous turn / 1 circle fighting is where flying without instructor is clearly an advantage since you can pull harder. But I have to admit that on 2 circle fighting I'm not do not know which one is the better. Plane spesific maybe?

You can simply switch from SB to RB/mouse aim controls when you have gained all the position you need to win. That aside, SB controls is better in both the circles, 1 circle as you mentioned and 2 circle to hold optimal speed/AoA not available to planes with Virtual Instructor. It is plane specific, but since its nature is to provide more control; its a spectrum from no advantage or huge advantage. There is no Negatives, as the person with SB control can always just switch to RB when need be.

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1 minute ago, Schelbert said:

You can simply switch from SB to RB/mouse aim controls when you have gained all the position you need to win. That aside, SB controls is better in both the circles, 1 circle as you mentioned and 2 circle to hold optimal speed/AoA not available to planes with Virtual Instructor. It is plane specific, but since its nature is to provide more control; its a spectrum from no advantage or huge advantage. There is no Negatives, as the person with SB control can always just switch to RB when need be.

 

I can totally agree that constantly switching between the controlls gives you advanatage compared to players how do not do it (no matter which controls scheme the one controll scheme players use). Thus I asked if removing the ability to toggle between the contolls during the fight would be enough. Since in that case you would also face the disadvantages of your control scheme.

 

As far as I understand the overall opinnion is a "no" ?

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3 minutes ago, esapekkis said:

 

I can totally agree that constantly switching between the controlls gives you advanatage compared to players how do not do it (no matter which controls scheme the one controll scheme players use). Thus I asked if removing the ability to toggle between the contolls during the fight would be enough. Since in that case you would also face the disadvantages of your control scheme.

 

As far as I understand the overall opinnion is a "no" ?

That would work if there was an equal tradeoff between SB and RB, unfortunately it is skewed in SB controls. Once someone gains position with SB, they can play passive and not take hard shots /keep holding a passive/lag trajectory. Once you are totally out of energy to fight with, he can spray you down. The only counterplay to a good SB control player in RB controls is hope that he makes a mistake, and being at the mercy of that is not a fun or competitive experience.

TLDR, SB controls still win without switching, it just takes longer to set up the kill. Forcing Virtual Instructor on or total removal is the path required to make it an equal playing field.

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9 minutes ago, esapekkis said:

 

I can totally agree that constantly switching between the controlls gives you advanatage compared to players how do not do it (no matter which controls scheme the one controll scheme players use). Thus I asked if removing the ability to toggle between the contolls during the fight would be enough. Since in that case you would also face the disadvantages of your control scheme.

 

As far as I understand the overall opinnion is a "no" ?

this would be preferable to how it is setup currently, however players can still use SB controls and gain as much position as they need. In other words as a mouse aim player you would have to hope that the other guy has bad aim. This is not an assumption you want to make as you are setting yourself up for failure once someone can aim... plus SB will still have the advantage anyways

 

forcing virtual instructor is the easier and less intrusive way to go

Edited by [email protected]
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Just now, ______BlackCat13 said:

Nice prizes, costs you alot to give em out huh? real big incentive there guys. god forbid you prize anything worthwhile

This is just the test season, The actual season will have better prizes, as stated in earlier in the thread

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22 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

SB has pretty much every advantage. sustained turning is faster with sb on 99% of planes. if someone forces sustained turns while using sb there is nothing you can do. feel free to try it vs me

 ohh yeah, lets forget about torque, lets forget about your precise aim with mouse and for your knowledge if somebody forces sustained turns with full controls you know what happens, you stall....... with RB controls you can keep turning without getting into that.

 

If you think its an advantage you have clearly not played vs a mouse player while using a joystick. Everybody who thinks the same they clearly haven't played with a joystick vs a mouse player. :good:

 

Maybe the option to enable the instructor mode in mid air should be removed......yet people will still complain :good:

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Just now, onebullet95 said:

 ohh yeah, lets forget about torque, lets forget about your precise aim with mouse and for your knowledge if somebody forces sustained turns with full controls you know what happens, you stall....... with RB controls you can keep turning without getting into that.

 

If you think its an advantage you have clearly not played vs a mouse player while using a joystick. Everybody who thinks the same they clearly haven't played with a joystick vs a mouse player. :good:

 

Maybe the option to enable the instructor mode in mid air should be removed......yet people will still complain :good:



The first sentence you posted shows your inexperience, You can rate fight abnormally well with SB controls, as you hold higher AoA not available to RB/ Mouse aim. You do not have to pull all the way down on the stick and spin yourself. You can just hold a slightly higher than instructor allowed angle and win in rate fights.

If you think SB is not an advantage you have not fought a player using it well. I guarantee you people advocating for removal of SB has fought good SB players, and understands there is nothing a mouse aim player can do.

The Mode is called Air Realistic, not Air Simulator. RB controls will be the default, as that is kinda the whole point? If you want your own SB mode that is fine, but trying to hijack RB duels as your own is not really fair to the significantly greater RB population.
 

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55 minutes ago, onebullet95 said:

ohh yeah, lets forget about torque, lets forget about your precise aim with mouse and for your knowledge if somebody forces sustained turns with full controls you know what happens, you stall....... with RB controls you can keep turning without getting into that

My sweet summer child

 

(what schelbert said)

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46 minutes ago, Schelbert said:



The first sentence you posted shows your inexperience, You can rate fight abnormally well with SB controls, as you hold higher AoA not available to RB/ Mouse aim. You do not have to pull all the way down on the stick and spin yourself. You can just hold a slightly higher than instructor allowed angle and win in rate fights.
 

Yes, you can do rate fighting well enough with SB controls.... did i say you cannot do it with full real controls? No, right. Is it more simple when you play with mouse and keyboad than when u use a joyctick? tell me.... how much time do you have with a joystick?

 

51 minutes ago, Schelbert said:

If you think SB is not an advantage you have not fought a player using it well. I guarantee you people advocating for removal of SB has fought good SB players, and understands there is nothing a mouse aim player can do.
 

I think RB controls has an advantage for the simple reason i play both gamemodes, I don´t know what you play but i can see why you think SIM controls is advantage....

 

56 minutes ago, Schelbert said:


The Mode is called Air Realistic, not Air Simulator. RB controls will be the default, as that is kinda the whole point? If you want your own SB mode that is fine, but trying to hijack RB duels as your own is not really fair to the significantly greater RB population.
 

REALISTIC mode yet you all want Instructor mode to be enabled :lol2: Isnt full REAL-controls mode not realistic or what? Can u use Full REAL- controls in Air Realistic mode? you tell me

 

 

 Again, how much time do you in SIm or with a joystick?:good:

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3 minutes ago, onebullet95 said:

Yes, you can do rate fighting well enough with SB controls.... did i say you cannot do it with full real controls? No, right. Is it more simple when you play with mouse and keyboad than when u use a joyctick? tell me.... how much time do you have with a joystick?

You don't do it "well enough", you do it better.

3 minutes ago, onebullet95 said:

 

I think RB controls has an advantage for the simple reason i play both gamemodes, I don´t know what you play but i can see why you think SIM controls is advantage....

 

REALISTIC mode yet you all want Instructor mode to be enabled :lol2: Isnt full REAL-controls mode not realistic or what? Can u use Full REAL- controls in Air Realistic mode? you tell me

 

 

 Again, how much time do you in SIm or with a joystick?:good:

Incomprehensible/Irrelevant

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1 minute ago, onebullet95 said:

es, you can do rate fighting well enough with SB controls.... did i say you cannot do it with full real controls? No, right. Is it more simple when you play with mouse and keyboad than when u use a joyctick? tell me.... how much time do you have with a joystick?

You said this ->

 

1 hour ago, onebullet95 said:

ohh yeah, lets forget about torque, lets forget about your precise aim with mouse and for your knowledge if somebody forces sustained turns with full controls you know what happens, you stall....... with RB controls you can keep turning without getting into that.

Implying that you cannot full turn with SB controls. You did not say "it is more simple"  you said in full controls you "stall". At the peak of competitiveness ease of use does not matter. Whichever can get the most performance is preferred, and that is SB controls. If YOU personally cannot use SB controls to its max, that is not relevant to this discussion. I also cannot use SB controls as-well as I can use RB controls, but i can acknowledge the advantage regardless.

 

2 minutes ago, onebullet95 said:

I think RB controls has an advantage for the simple reason i play both gamemodes, I don´t know what you play but i can see why you think SIM controls is advantage....

 

See above.
 

6 minutes ago, onebullet95 said:

REALISTIC mode yet you all want Instructor mode to be enabled :lol2: Isnt full REAL-controls mode not realistic or what? Can u use Full REAL- controls in Air Realistic mode? you tell me

 

RB has always had Instructor enabled. That is the way everyone has learned how to duel when participating in RB settings. That is why we want removal of SB controls. This is a nonsensical argument to even think of.

 

 

8 minutes ago, onebullet95 said:

 Again, how much time do you in SIm or with a joystick?:good:

None with joystick, plenty with mouse joystick. Regardless not relevant .

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15 minutes ago, onebullet95 said:

Again, how much time do you in SIm or with a joystick

this is DUELS not sim. REALISTIC and FULL REAL are essentially the same thing. both of these control settings allow you to pull more AOA. This is a BAD thing for an RB tournament because REALISTIC and FULL REAL promote passive lines and eliminate the viability of Mouse Aim. MOUSE AIM is GOOD because it promotes more aggressive play AND its what 99.99% people use in RB. it is a confusing naming system, I understand, but as someone who spends 99% of their time in this game duelling and playing tournaments I can assure you that duellist's do not want SB controls (realistic/full real) in RB tournaments. If YOU want to use them, play SB tournaments.

 

ALSO YOU CAN PLAY WITH A JOYSTICK IN SIMPLIFIED MODE AND BE ON THE SAME LEVEL. ITS NOT LIKE YOU CAN'T USE YOUR JOYSTICK 

 

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1 hour ago, Schelbert said:

This is just the test season, The actual season will have better prizes, as stated in earlier in the thread

doesn't change the fact that I find more interesting things dumpster diving. would it kill them to throw in a chest key or something. it  LITERALLY  costs them nothing.

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I don't think anyone really asked for this, and the fact that it's already been pointed out by several people that the "Abuse Sim Controls" prostrat is a thing is very telling, like we needed more indicators though, that War Thunder is a bad game for this level of tryhardsmanship in it's current state.

You would think they'd have realized this with Squadron Battles, World War Mode, and the Gladiators Tournaments failing to sustain any sort of relevancy in the game, let alone outside of it. "Esports Ready" is also a well known running joke but that's clearly not stopped this.

This is gonna die real quick or the rewards will be increased to selling OP vehicles and outright power, like every other game in this genre that does this kind of Ranked format, as a form of unholy Iron Lung.

And I know, you're gonna say "we won't do that it's just cosmetics and economic bonuses! We swear."

But really I don't believe you.

Edited by Phontomen
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4 hours ago, Bruce_R1 said:

I'll bet money I was in more tournaments than you this weekend. Also, where are you on this list (mostly joystick players in a RB event, in the top ranks)?  Haterade_Fins_shared_1st_place.jpg.1e30b

Man's flexing the PO 2 event lol

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Have enjoyed the 1v1 air battles so far.

 

But theres potential here to add a competive air arcade mode where a smaller number of players (say 4-8 instead of the usual 16) can play a normal Air Arcade match mode (Ground Strike/Frontline etc) but with the sole objective of winning the game (bleeding tickets/base bombing with better fighter coordination etc).

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This is actually a good game mode and hopefully it will stick around. I feel it gives most players an opportunity to improve at basic dog fighting skills that can carry over to Air RB.

 

However, I do not think being able to toggle into "Realistic" or "Full Real Controls" should be allowed.

 

There is an argument that knowing when to use SB controls and when to use RB controls requires more skill. But I don't think it actually adds anything to the experience...if you know how to use SB controls you can practically make as many mistakes as you want and once it gets to flat turning on the deck it just ends up being a de-facto win against a Non-SB user. 

 

I'll have a video up later that shows how even someone who is bad at the game like me can crutch on SB to cheese a free win.

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Probably should announce the event like days in advance if its going to only last for such a short period of time, I literally went to bed yesterday after checking the news and woke up to find out that I've already missed 3 events somehow

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I have no problems with this mode. It's just not for me. But if other players enjoy it, that's fine. What is worrying me is that perhaps in the future, in order to entice larger numbers of players to participate you will start to offer unique vehicles as prizes. I absolutely do not want to see this. Offer unique skins for vehicles, offer 5,000,000 in SL or offer 10,000 in GE. But please do not bury unique vehicles behind this duelist wall. As a player with almost 1400 vehicles and one that is missing maybe 20-25 premiums from rank 3 and up across all nations and all trees. I'm genuinely asking and saying please do not bury vehicles behind this duelist wall. There are players that love dueling in the air and that's awesome that's their thing. But there are other players that don't. For instance I wouldn't like the idea of burying vehicles behind any modes top 1000 players. Even in naval where I usually have a sub 300 PvP rating. (Yes I know that's not the same and it doesn't mean anything) I'm just trying to prove a point that I don't believe burying unique vehicles behind a ranking system is ok. Even the in the normal events, they provide the opportunity for every player with at least rank 3 vehicles to get basically all the vehicles if they put in enough effort and then usually pickup the last vehicle off the market for a decent price. A decent price because there's thousands of players selling them. That won't be the case if in the future you offer unique vehicles in this mode. There will be players that will never be good enough to get the vehicles and there will be so few vehicle coupons given out, that when the vehicles make it on the market they will be thousands of dollars. So again I humbly ask as someone who has devoted an extremely large portion of their free time and money to acquiring all the vehicles I can in the game,  please do not offer unique vehicles that are only available in this mode to the top players. It's going to cultivate the wrong attitude and it will absolutely alienate a lot of players that like collecting vehicles and it will harm the game in the long run. Thank you for taking the time to read this. 

Edited by WARNERwinsGAMING
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People have already hammered on the SB controls issue enough - they're 101% right, SB controls should not be allowed.

 

I would love to see this every weekend with different planes being chosen and small little rewards for winning each duelist match. Putting up rewards would entice some newer players into the mode instead of making it for sweaty duelists only, and hopefully they will learn something.

 

Of course we all know gaijin is only making this mode fun until they find a way to monetize it.

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