Changing the naval kill system

[survivalboss 18]

I've experienced so many times where i've been shelling a guy for 2-5 minutes with the enemy crew less than 20% and then some guy decides to 1 shot the enemy and i get an assist. They should make it where the kill goes to the guy that deals the most damage to the enemy or atleast the kill goes to the player who deals the most damage if the enemy crew is less than 30%, but still have the same system if the enemy has over 30% crew for stuff like bombs, ammo rack, etc. or they could make dealing damage give more XP and SL.

 

Read through the replies and changed my opinion a bit, they should add assist count as kill, they could give that assist count as kill to the player who deals the most damage, or the 2nd player who deals the most damage.

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by survivalboss

[Fireraid233 4,249]

Agreed 

[[email protected] 1,771]

Last shot landed should always give kill credit; what we really need is the "Assist Counts As Kill" system from the Battlefield series. In Battlefield games, if you deal 75% or more damage to an enemy player, you'll receiver an Assist Counts As Kill if someone else finishes them off. This means you're both credited with a full kill in terms of XP/etc earned.

 

This would also be great for Air RB.

[kkang2828 1,414]

19 hours ago, [email protected] said:

Last shot landed should always give kill credit; what we really need is the "Assist Counts As Kill" system from the Battlefield series. In Battlefield games, if you deal 75% or more damage to an enemy player, you'll receiver an Assist Counts As Kill if someone else finishes them off. This means you're both credited with a full kill in terms of XP/etc earned.

 

This would also be great for Air RB.

 

This is actually a great idea. But GJ will probably never do it because it will give more rewards to the players and reduce their profits, or so they think.

[Bruce_R1 2,088]

The actual effect on base(mission) score is minimal, only 20 points between assist and kill (or less if there's a big BR differential). 

 

The bigger effect on mission score is actually the really broad variation in the damage done and the resulting score points you can get on any deaths involving secondary explosion. Even oneshotting a PT boat can get you between 12 and 1200 damage depending on the exact sequence of events.

 

The larger effect is on the RP/SL bonus the player gets at end game for their total kills, on top of the base RP and SL you get for mission score. This has no equivalent for assists, which only affect base score and returns.

 

Not saying it can't or shouldn't be improved, just pointing out how the system actually works.

[survivalboss 18]

On 16/07/2022 at 01:01, Bruce_R1 said:

The actual effect on base(mission) score is minimal, only 20 points between assist and kill (or less if there's a big BR differential). 

 

The bigger effect on mission score is actually the really broad variation in the damage done and the resulting score points you can get on any deaths involving secondary explosion. Even oneshotting a PT boat can get you between 12 and 1200 damage depending on the exact sequence of events.

 

The larger effect is on the RP/SL bonus the player gets at end game for their total kills, on top of the base RP and SL you get for mission score. This has no equivalent for assists, which only affect base score and returns.

 

Not saying it can't or shouldn't be improved, just pointing out how the system actually works.

thanks for the info

[dragloon 111]

On 15/07/2022 at 07:30, [email protected] said:

Last shot landed should always give kill credit;

nope

this leads to the problem we have now of trying to get torpedo kills on destroyers and above

because they dont often have an immediate kill ( pay to wins may differ )

so even though you put 2 torps into something they take so long to die that anyone coming along with a 20mm can get the kill instead

[[email protected] 1,771]

1 hour ago, dragloon said:

nope

this leads to the problem we have now of trying to get torpedo kills on destroyers and above

because they dont often have an immediate kill ( pay to wins may differ )

so even though you put 2 torps into something they take so long to die that anyone coming along with a 20mm can get the kill instead

 

You literally cut out the entire rest of what I said, despite that being exactly what addresses the issue you're bringing up...

[GaijinPleaseFix 4]

As a decently good naval player, and someone who plays naval often, I personally disagree yet still agree. Whoever does the most damage should get the kill, yet the person who put in the final blow should also get the kill, depends on the situation. Would be very annoying to finish someone off only to get an assist because they escaped death. On the other hand, i've gotten a ship down to very low crew, yet i got an assist. Personally I think the way it should work is if there hasn't been anyone shooting at the target for a certain amount of time, killing them should be a kill. If they're getting shot at by multiple people, whoever did the most damage gets the kill. 

[dragloon 111]

1 hour ago, [email protected] said:

 

You literally cut out the entire rest of what I said, despite that being exactly what addresses the issue you're bringing up...

yup

cause that isn't the way it is atm

if it ever goes that way .. and we both know that's very unlikely to happen .. then it's a non issue

but the way it is and will likely stay .. it's an issue

so who does the most damage should get the kill

[Alikiwi55 121]

To keep it simple, the person who does the most damage should get the kill credit. But there is another problem, when you 80% destroy a ship, then the player jumps ship, and no one gets a credit. I consider that cheating, and a kill should still be awarded. Unless I'm missing something?

[lizardmech 768]

6 hours ago, Alikiwi55 said:

To keep it simple, the person who does the most damage should get the kill credit. But there is another problem, when you 80% destroy a ship, then the player jumps ship, and no one gets a credit. I consider that cheating, and a kill should still be awarded. Unless I'm missing something?

The biggest problem from what I can tell is that fire and ammo explosion damage get attributed to no one. You only get any score from the ammo explosion if the ship is instantly killed. Very often I will target a ships magazine with AP rounds, the AP shell deals no damage to the crew modules since they're located on the top of the hull far from the armored belt and ammo, the ammo blows up killing 80% of the crew but that damage isn't awarded to me, then a moffet bot on the other side of the map who earlier killed 10% of the crew by spamming HE shells into the cruiser I ammo racked gets awarded the kill and earns 10k SL or more. The same problem happens with torps as well, I will hit a BB ammo rack but it doesn't instantly die, then when it sinks 30 seconds later due to fire and flooding the entire kill gets awarded to some bot spraying HE. Though the bots get awful K/D ratios they're playing thousands of matches per month and syphoning off millions of SL rewards from kills from human players.

[Bruce_R1 2,088]

14 hours ago, Alikiwi55 said:

To keep it simple, the person who does the most damage should get the kill credit. But there is another problem, when you 80% destroy a ship, then the player jumps ship, and no one gets a credit. I consider that cheating, and a kill should still be awarded. Unless I'm missing something?

The trick is factoring in repair. Unlike tanks and planes, in naval repair actually effectively restores some hitpoints. When you fix the thing, like a turret, and reassign crew to it, your crew goes down but the damage points come back.

The system doesn't keep track of cumulative damage on each vehicle for calculating who did the most damage over the entire game, just instantaneous damage in the last few seconds (not sure what the actual window is tbh). A system that did track damage game long could be frustrating too. Imagine if another player beat a ship down, they went behind a rock and fully repaired, and then you came by and killed them, but the first player (because the repaired damage factored in actually meant they did more damage) got the kill. Also problematic.

 

The other problem, as mentioned, is attributing damage due to DoT effects like fire, explosion due to fire, and sinking to the right player. Absolutely could use some tweaks, right now score for a kill is wildly variable. But not easy.

 

As far as the free kills, I actually think giving people a free kill when I J out of a perfectly good plane or tank because I need to spawn in something else, and they're just the closest player, is kinda cheap too. Flip side of the coin.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Bruce_R1

[GeneralArmchair 674]

On 23/08/2022 at 06:11, lizardmech said:

The biggest problem from what I can tell is that fire and ammo explosion damage get attributed to no one. You only get any score from the ammo explosion if the ship is instantly killed. Very often I will target a ships magazine with AP rounds, the AP shell deals no damage to the crew modules since they're located on the top of the hull far from the armored belt and ammo, the ammo blows up killing 80% of the crew but that damage isn't awarded to me, then a moffet bot on the other side of the map who earlier killed 10% of the crew by spamming HE shells into the cruiser I ammo racked gets awarded the kill and earns 10k SL or more. The same problem happens with torps as well, I will hit a BB ammo rack but it doesn't instantly die, then when it sinks 30 seconds later due to fire and flooding the entire kill gets awarded to some bot spraying HE. Though the bots get awful K/D ratios they're playing thousands of matches per month and syphoning off millions of SL rewards from kills from human players.

What you describe is the IMO the worst part of naval.  It makes ships that depend upon ammo sniping completely unrewarding.

[Brenok 31]

On 23/08/2022 at 03:11, lizardmech said:

The biggest problem from what I can tell is that fire and ammo explosion damage get attributed to no one. You only get any score from the ammo explosion if the ship is instantly killed. Very often I will target a ships magazine with AP rounds, the AP shell deals no damage to the crew modules since they're located on the top of the hull far from the armored belt and ammo, the ammo blows up killing 80% of the crew but that damage isn't awarded to me, then a moffet bot on the other side of the map who earlier killed 10% of the crew by spamming HE shells into the cruiser I ammo racked gets awarded the kill and earns 10k SL or more. The same problem happens with torps as well, I will hit a BB ammo rack but it doesn't instantly die, then when it sinks 30 seconds later due to fire and flooding the entire kill gets awarded to some bot spraying HE. Though the bots get awful K/D ratios they're playing thousands of matches per month and syphoning off millions of SL rewards from kills from human players.

 

In my experience, this kind of thing usually happens when you die after you inflicted fire or flooding on the enemy ship. The game seems to "forget" the damage you did after you die, so if an enemy ends up getting killed by lingering damage the kill is not attributed to you.

[YUi_Takamura 648]

KS for BB and heavy cruisers is very disgusting, DD and light cruisers will always try to kill steal when the enemy just left 10% or lower crew members

[GeneralArmchair 674]

DDs and light cruisers shooting the targets to help finish them off isn't the problem.  The problem is the system handing the DD or light cruiser the bulk of the reward when the lion's share of the work was done by whoever did most of the damage.