china multi-role jet Chengdu J-10A Vigorous Dragon, Learning from the western

[leroyonly 4,303]

And this now has gone past the point of discussion and has entered the time where it's just going around in circles. If there is a disagreement about sources and their claims, provide counter sources. Not just "he said, she said", yes at times English sources are incorrect but like with the F-4EJ the way to correct misunderstandings is by using sources that correct things. I will now clean this mess up and consider this a warning going forward.

[CaID 8,972]

 

I would like to suggest a Modern Chinese Fighter, the Chengdu J-10A Vigorous Dragon

 

The Chengdu J-10 is a Chinese multi-role fighter of the 4th generation.developed at first to be a 3rd generation, his orginale go back at 1981 when China ordered the development of a new plane fallowing a new way to get the plane, instant of giving the requirement of the plane they wanted to one builder and get what the builder make, they made a competition between 3 major builder and choose the more interesting of them. it was Chengdu who got the contract to develop the new plane from their proposition. the J-9 was their initial proposition who was never built, it was a plane that was likely inspired by the JA-37 Grippen. the plane however was too advance for the Chinese capacity. incorporating 60% of new technology, the J-10 was the most modern plane that china could built. this slowed the development and all the technology needed to be tested, the compartment been adapted to each other and at the end of what the industry wasn't capable to produce it since it was too advance for their capacity. the plane was finally built in 1997 and flow in 1998. it was already 17 years that the plane was been developed back them. and it was just entering the trial. but the trial appear to had went well as the plane was put into production in 2002. the first planes was in services in 2006 and only revealed in 2007. the result was quit impressive, the plane was remarkably modern and look oddly like the IAI Lavi which led to believe that Israel had been involved in the development of the J-10 deliberately or unconsciously. Various credible source and photo evidence go in favour to the Theory of Israel selling the blueprint of the Lavi to china is consider as fact by the U.S airforces, Russian Intelligence, IHS Jane's and Lyulka's engineer who worked on the J-10 to adapt the Russian engine. it was been described by the Lyulka's engineer as a melting-pot of foreign technology from the F-16, Israel, Russia and china. but the fact is China had built this plane, integrating a lot of technology that was from other country and adapted with each other. nonetheless, this plane would be a great addition for the game. the J-10A been the first standard version of the J-10 will offer the basic yet great performance. as for 2021, a total of 200 J-10A is believe to be in services in China.

 

Chinese delegation with the development teams for the IAI Lavi in-front of the Lavi, which include Song Wencong (in the red square) who was chef designer of the J-10

after 1987, the J-10 development changed drastically. here we can see the head of the development Song Wencong  demonstrating a mock-up of the future J-10 which is nearly identical to the Lavi, this photo was taken at the end of the 80s or early 90s. back them, China was still trying to acquire the Pratt & withney engine. but the negotiation was a firm refusal. China had to find another engine and intended to develop their own engine, but until this engine was ready, they turned to Lyulka to provide the Salyut AL-31FN for the first production of the J-10. the Russian industry accepted to provide the engine, and send some of their engineer to china to adapt the plane and engine to work together, not intended for this engine, which was a fair bit bigger, the J-10 had to become nearly 2m longer and the gearbox and other element had to be placed sideways. those engineer qualified the J-10 as a melting-pot of American, Russian and Chinese technology. this led to the final stage of the development, the plane was ready to fly in 1998 with the russian engine.

Armament

the Armament of the J-10A is pretty decent. the first been a 23mm GSh-23 placed under the fuselage a bit at the left side offer a basic old fashion fire-power for the dogfight. but the armament is not only auto-cannon. like any modern plane, his firepower depend of his suspended armament. in this case,11 hardpoints capable to carry a total of 5600 kg allow you to have a great selection of weapons. amounts of the known suspended armament there is the fallowing list

Spoiler

 

Air-to-air missiles

 

• PL-8
• PL-11
• PL-12

Air-to-surface missiles

• KD-88
• YJ-91

Guided bomb

• LT-2
• LS-6
• GB3
• GB2A
• GB3A
• FT-1

 

Unguided bomb

• 250 kg
• 500 kg

Rockets pod

• 90mm rockets pod

 

i prepared the fallowing Graphic to indicate where the armament is know to be mounted. this is only conclusion from the picture and it may not be totally accurate

A

• short/medium range air-to-air missiles
• Rockets pod

B

• 1 air-to-air missiles
• 2x short/medium range air-to-air missiles
• Air-to-surface missiles
• 1x bomb up to 500 kg
• 2x bombs up to 250 kg
• Rockets pod

C

• Fuel Tank
• 1x air-to-air missiles
• 2x short/medium range air-to-air missiles
• Air-to-surface missiles
• 1x bomb up to 500 kg
• 2x bombs up to 250 kg
• 1x bomb up to 1000 kg
• Rockets pod

D

1. Avionic pod
2. 1x bomb up to 250 kg
3. 1x air-to-air missiles

E

• 1x bomb up to 250 kg
• 1x air-to-air missiles

F

• Fuel tank
• 1x bomb up to 500 kg
• 2x bombs up to 250 kg

 

 

Performance

the plane have high flight characteristic.due to his canard configuration, it have high manoeuvrability at low and high speed. the forward wings are completely inevitable which make it ideal to take hard turn. the engine been a Russian Salyut AL-31FN give the plane a Thrust  of 28,000 lbf (124.5 kN)with after burner. the plane been a light weight will have a relatively good power with this engine. the plane will show high performance and a better thrust/weight ratio of the successive J-10 due to his lighter weight. it would be capable to match modern plane around the world. at least those that is from the 4th generation. 

Avionic

• The cockpit has three liquid crystal (LCD) Multi-function displays (MFD) along with a Chinese developed holographic head-up display (HUD), all of which are fully compatible with a domestic Chinese advanced helmet mounted sight (HMS), claimed by Chinese to be superior to the HMS on the Sukhoi Su-27 sold to China.
• The J-10 is fitted with an Type 1473H pulse-doppler fire control radar. It is capable of tracking 10 targets simultaneously and attacking 4 of them. Estimated maximum detection range is 100 km. Aircraft is fitted with a fly-by-wire system.
• the plane is fitted with Electronic Countermeasure on the tail between the parachute compartment and reactor.
• a built in Chaff and/or flare dispenser appear to be built int and place at the base of the delta wings near the flap. this is to be comfirm but something is placed there that do look like it.

 

General characteristics

• Crew: 1 ^[37]
• Length: 16.9 m (55 ft 5 in)
• Wingspan: 9.8 m (32 ft 2 in)
• Height: 5.7 m (18 ft 8 in)
• Wing area: 37 m² (400 sq ft)
• Empty weight: 8,300 kg
• Max takeoff weight: 18,000 kg
• Fuel capacity: 4950 L (3860 Kg) internal. ^[65] 4000 L (3120 Kg) external with 3 drop tanks (2x1600L + 1x800L) ^[66]
• Powerplant: 1 × Salyut AL-31FN  thrust dry 79.43 / with afterburner 122.58 kN

Performance

• Maximum speed: Mach 2.2
• Stall speed: 200 km/h (120 mph, 110 kn) ^{[67] [65]}
• Combat range: 1,240 or 2,600 km (770 or 1,620 mi, 670 or 1,400 nmi) ^{[67] [65] [68]}
• Ferry range: 3,250 km (2,020 mi, 1,750 nmi)
• Service ceiling: 18,000 m (59,000 ft) ^[65]
• g limits: +9/-3 ^[65]
• Rate of climb: 300 m/s (59,000 ft/min) ^[69]
• Wing loading: 381 kg/m² (78 lb/sq ft)

Armament

Air-to-air missiles

• PL-8
• PL-11
• PL-12

Air-to-surface missiles

• KD-88
• YJ-91

Guided bomb

• LT-2
• LS-6
• GB3
• GB2A
• GB3A
• FT-1

Unguided bomb

• 250 kg
• 500 kg

Rockets pod

• 90mm rockets pod

Avionics

• Type 1473H pulse-doppler fire control radar
• Externally mounted avionics pods:
  • K/JDC01A targeting pod 
  • Type Hongguang-I infra-red search and track pod
  • KG600 electronic countermeasure pod
  • Blue Sky navigation/attack pod

 

Source

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu_J-10#Variants

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_AL-31

https://hushkit.net/2019/02/26/how-good-is-chinas-j-10c-fighter-we-ask-justin-bronk-from-the-rusi-think-tank/

https://thelexicans.wordpress.com/2013/12/25/chengdu-j-10-photo-walkaround/

https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.php?aircraft_id=599

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Sinocanard.html

http://www.military-today.com/aircraft/j10.htm

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/news-detail/dubai-airshow-2019-chinas-chengdu-promotes-j-10c-export-variant

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/2006-11-15/sibnia-remains-center-russian-innovation

https://www.airuniversity.af.edu/Portals/10/CASI/Books/Lumbering_Forward_Aviation_Industry_Web_2019-08-02.pdf?ver=2019-08-05-102041-830

https://web.archive.org/web/20120314231336/http://www.janes.com/products/janes/defence-security-report.aspx?id=1065926403

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1994-12-28-mn-13774-story.html

http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-PLA-GBU.html

 

 

 

Additional photo

Spoiler

 

blob:https://imgur.com/c25d248f-0498-49a2-9ef9-26ecd6301b88

 

Edited July 19, 2022 by CaID

[kleinerPanzer 645]

Open for discussion. 

[oom1992 625]

+ good early medium-weight modern 4.5 gen fighter aircraft for china tech tree after Shenyang J-11A in rank 8

Edited July 12, 2022 by oom1992

[NAYEONnaise 1,934]

+1 for me. Sorry i laughed, the title was just too funny. Much needed for china tho 

[Fireraid233 4,257]

+1

[Defy_Doll94 160]

Bruh, you can't make such a controversial title just because the J-10A looks like Lavi

 

It seems that you are a very biased amateur aviation enthusiast

 

The trailing edge of the "Lavi" delta wing sweeps back, which is more like a large swept wing similar to the delta wing. This design makes the lift center backward, which can improve the static stability of the aircraft and is conducive to resisting the effects of gusts and sudden changes in airflow at low altitude. However, the design of ultra short range coupled canard swept wing is affected by the downwash of canard wing, and the local effective angle of attack of the inner section of the main wing is significantly reduced, which limits the maneuverability at high elevation.

The trailing edge of the J-10 delta wing sweeps forward slightly, and the lift center is relatively forward, which is conducive to improving maneuverability. The canard wing of J-10 is located in the upwash flow field of the main wing, considering both pitch control and vortex generation. It has excellent lift efficiency and greater supersonic pitch control. The supersonic impact lift of the entrance ramp (J-10A) and the bump (j-10b/c) is used to unload the canard.

In addition, the larger canard also ensures that there is a strong enough eddy current generation and control ability in the medium-range coupling state. The adverse effect of duck down wash on the main wing can be solved by twisting the main wing in a long span, so as to solve the problem of low angle of attack of the inner wing. The larger canard wing can realize yaw control by actively controlling the eddy current field, which makes the distribution of lift along the wingspan more favorable, and improves the stress condition of the body structure at the same time.

In general, the J-10 adopts a unique mid-range coupling canard, which takes into account the vortex lift and pitch and pitch control. This reflects that the combat mission of the J-10 is different from that of the "Ravi": "Ravi" is a fighter that focuses on battlefield interception, supplemented by air domination, while the J-10 is on the contrary, emphasizing low-altitude entanglement and high-altitude high-speed

 

 

Development history of J-10A in Mandarin

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1aL411T7vs?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click&vd_source=c62a30bfe6d18b1e51716a5e5511dbe2

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1xT4y1S7hk?vd_source=c62a30bfe6d18b1e51716a5e5511dbe2

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1zb4y1x7fB?vd_source=c62a30bfe6d18b1e51716a5e5511dbe2

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1mR4y1L7Fe?vd_source=c62a30bfe6d18b1e51716a5e5511dbe2

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV15Y411t7dy?vd_source=c62a30bfe6d18b1e51716a5e5511dbe2

Edited July 20, 2022 by Defy_Doll94

[Defy_Doll94 160]

According to your logic, I'm curious about how could you clarify the relationship between Soviet L29 and alpha jet

As well as the striking similarities between Japan's F2a and the United States' F16, the appearance of South Korea's kf21 is also very similar to China's J-35

You should consider whether the word "S T O L E N" should appear in the title and content of the suggestion section,specially in the absence of any evidence

Edited July 13, 2022 by Defy_Doll94

[Milocat 4,835]

+1, would like to see multiple J10 variants added someday.

[卡巴尔战兽都玩 9]

Creating a controvertial topic is a mistake, especially there are no evidences that can prove it's a rip of of Isralian Fighter. Despite China has been copying from other nation, applying such sterotype on their original design is unacceptble. 

[PlanyKaanere 722]

3 hours ago, Defy_Doll94 said:

According to your logic, I'm curious about how could you clarify the relationship between Soviet L29 and alpha jet

As well as the striking similarities between Japan's F2a and the United States' F16, the appearance of South Korea's kf21 is also very similar to China's J-35

You should consider whether the word "S T O L E N" should appear in the title and content of the suggestion section,specially in the absence of any evidence

 

While I agree that the links between the Lavi and the J-10 seems overstated, there are several errors here.

• The L-29 was developed and built by Aero in Czechoslovakia; it's not a Soviet aircraft, even if it was used by the Soviet union. They also don't look particularly close, especially when compared to other trainer jets of the era.
• The Mitsubishi F-2's "striking similarities" with the F-16 are due to the fact that it is a licensed derivative of the later. General Dynamics (and later Lockheed Martin) were involved in the project since the beginning.
• The KF-21 project also featured technological support from Lockheed Martin, part of why it resembles the F-22 and F-35. Incidentally the FC-31/J-35 didn't...

I usually wouldn't point these out but...

 

3 hours ago, Defy_Doll94 said:

It seems that you are a very very amateur aviation enthusiastst

 

EDIT: And +1 for the J-10 of course!

Edited July 13, 2022 by PlanyKaanere

[CaID 8,972]

8 hours ago, Defy_Doll94 said:

bruh，You can't make such a controversial Title simply because the J-10A looks like the Lavi

It seems that you are a very very amateur aviation enthusiastst

 

The trailing edge of the “Lavi” delta wing sweeps back, more like a large swept wing similar to the delta wing. This design makes the lift center backward, which can improve the static stability of the aircraft and is conducive to the low altitude resistance to the effects of gusts and sudden changes in airflow. However, the design of the super short-range coupled canard swept wing is affected by the downwash of the canard wing, and the local effective angle of attack of the inner section of the main wing decreases significantly, which limits the maneuverability at high elevation.

The trailing edge of the delta wing of the J-10 sweeps forward slightly, and the lift center is relatively forward, which is conducive to improving maneuverability. The canard wing of the J-10 takes into account both pitching control and vortex generation, and is in the upwash flow field of the main wing. It has excellent lift efficiency, and has obtained greater supersonic pitching control authority. The supersonic shock lift of the inlet ramp (J-10A) and the bulge (j-10b/c) is used to unload the canard wing.

In addition, the larger canard also ensures a strong enough eddy current generation and control ability in the mid-range coupling state. The adverse effect of canard downwash on the main wing can be solved by twisting the main wing in a large span, so that the problem of low angle of attack of the inner wing can be solved. The larger canard wing can realize yaw control by actively controlling the vortex flow field, which makes the distribution of lift along the wingspan more favorable, and improves the stress condition of the body structure at the same time.

In general, the J-10 adopts a unique mid-range coupling canard, which takes into account the vortex lift and the trim and pitch control. This reflects that the combat mission of the J-10 is different from that of the "Lavi": the "Lavi" is a fighter that focuses on battlefield interdiction, supplemented by seizing air control, while the J-10 is on the contrary, emphasizing low-altitude entanglement and high-altitude high-speed

i made no such statement in the topic that put into dirrect relation the develepment of the Lavi and the J-10. No clear statement was made from china about the development of the J-10.
call me amateur, but would not be making a real amateur someone that source their statement on rumor? because Israel never confirmed the Lavi been related to the J-10 either.

 

beside the Lavi wasn,t the first plane to adopt the canard wing, this was a design that was existing since the 20s.

[CaID 8,972]

5 hours ago, PlanyKaanere said:

 

While I agree that the links between the Lavi and the J-10 seems overstated, there are several errors here.

• The L-29 was developed and built by Aero in Czechoslovakia; it's not a Soviet aircraft, even if it was used by the Soviet union. They also don't look particularly close, especially when compared to other trainer jets of the era.
• The Mitsubishi F-2's "striking similarities" with the F-16 are due to the fact that it is a licensed derivative of the later. General Dynamics (and later Lockheed Martin) were involved in the project since the beginning.
• The KF-21 project also featured technological support from Lockheed Martin, part of why it resembles the F-22 and F-35. Incidentally the FC-31/J-35 didn't...

I usually wouldn't point these out but...

 

I made no statement about it. i just reported that the resemblance of the design and technology led to believe it was based on the Lavi.

this statement was made by the Russian Branch of Jane's encyclopedia and also believed by the Russian intelligence. only it wasn't confirm, but the Radar was indeed the same as the Lavi and the original engine was also supposed to be the same as the Lavi only china couldn't get it, so they deal with Russia to get another engine. that cause the Fuselage to be 2m longer to accommodate the new engine.

[CubicSquare 147]

Quote

Chinese J-10 'benefited from the Lavi project'

By Robert Hewson

5/19/2008

Russian aerospace engineers have confirmed to Jane's that China's Chengdu J-10 fighter aircraft benefited from significant, direct input from Israel's Lavi programme - including access to the Israel Aircraft Industries (IAI) Lavi aircraft itself.

In a number of interviews Jane's has talked at length with several engineers, designers and technical specialists - some of whom have been working with their Chinese counterparts for decades and have had first-hand experience on Chinese military projects. They have provided detailed accounts of the assistance given to various Chinese manufacturers and their military aircraft projects. This has included extensive design and performance modelling, wind-tunnel testing and advanced aerodynamic design input.

Senior Russian engineers who spoke to Jane's recalled their many visits to Chengdu, and elsewhere in China, some of which began in the 1980s. Jane's was told how Chengdu officials of the highest level stated how they had one of the IAI Lavi prototypes in their facilities. Describing his conversations with Chengdu concerning possession of a Lavi aircraft, one Jane's source commented: "I did not consider that to be a revelation ... doesn't everyone know that already?"

It is not possible to independently verify the Russian comments. The charge of Lavi technology transfer has been made before, but this time the claims come from individuals with sustained personal experience of the programme. Both Chinese and Israeli officials have long refuted any purported links between the J-10 and the Lavi.

 --https://web.archive.org/web/20120314231336/http://www.janes.com/products/janes/defence-security-report.aspx?id=1065926403

There are differences between the Lavi (~1987) and J-10; which makes sense, considering the advancements made in the Decade+ from the Israeli fighter's creation. While I'm not gonna claim they are exactly identical, calling the J-10 a fully indigenous design is just wrong. Regardless, +1, cool plane.

 

[Defy_Doll94 160]

 

On 14/07/2022 at 09:46, CaID said:

我沒有在與 Lavi 和 J-10 的發展直接相關的主題中發表這樣的聲明。 中國沒有就殲10的發展發表明確聲明。
稱我為業餘愛好者，但不會讓一個真正的業餘愛好者成為他們對謠言的陳述的來源嗎？ 因為以色列也從未證實 Lavi 與 J-10 有關。

 

除了 Lavi 之外，不是第一架採用鴨翼的飛機，這是一種自 20 年代以來就存在的設計。

According to your logic, the Soviet Union's jet fighters and practical strategic bombers also started from stealing

The Soviet Union 9 /11 obviously stole the design of me262, and the krimov VK1 engine used by MIG 15 is a complete replica of Rolls Royce Nene.

And Tu4 is a completely stolen tech of B29

Also，Soviet first practical A2A missile R3S is unauthorized copy of aim9b sidewinder，and there are also similarities between r13m1 and aim9j that cannot be ignored

Would you mind if I add the word “S T O L E N” to the suggested title of Tu4 and Su9/11？Even the whole soviet modern air combat system？

 

Double standards and one-sided prejudice are completely undesirable and will only put you in an embarrassing situation

 

Wiki is not an authoritative and reliable encyclopedia. Users can edit entries randomly with their one-sided understanding, especially Russian wiki.

and no authoritative organization will arbitrarily graft two unrelated weapons into each other in the documents published

Edited July 20, 2022 by Defy_Doll94

[CaID 8,972]

9 minutes ago, Defy_Doll94 said:

 

According to your logic, the Soviet Union's jet fighters and practical strategic bombers also started from stealing

The Soviet Union 9 /11 obviously stole the design of me262, and the krimov VK1 engine used by MIG 15 is a complete replica of Rolls Royce Nene.

And Tu4 is a completely stolen tech of B29

Would you mind if I add the word “S T O L E N” to the suggested title of Tu4 and Su9/11？

 

Double standards and one-sided prejudice are completely undesirable and will only put you in an embarrassing situation

wiki

for most of your statement, yes that is true.
reverse engineering was common in Russia industry

but what i rely here is not my opinion, but information that was spread by well know and serious encyclopedia. but also from the Russian and American intelligence. and not Wiki or amateur work
https://web.archive.org/web/20120314231336/http://www.janes.com/products/janes/defence-security-report.aspx?id=1065926403

 

[CaID 8,972]

IHS Jane's Defense & Security Intelligence & Analysis is a world leading organization of encyclopedia that publish books and gather information on the military development and tactics for many decades. they aren't amateurs like half of the team that built Tank Encyclopedia or write Wiki or wannabe like those on Baidu

 

if you believe they are wrong, tell them, they will gladly ignore your complain

Edited July 14, 2022 by CaID

[[email protected] 3]

how many missiles can the j10 carry at once 

 

[Defy_Doll94 160]

The analysis of weapons should be based on rigorous analysis and professional knowledge, rather than speculative interviews and guesses.

Military affairs is a rigorous science, not star gossip

[CaID 8,972]

5 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

how many missiles can the j10 carry at once 

 

it to be confirm but likely 12 short range or 6x medium range + 2 short range air-to-air missiles

1 minute ago, Defy_Doll94 said:

The analysis of weapons should be based on rigorous analysis and professional knowledge, rather than speculative interviews and guesses.

Military affairs is a rigorous science, not star gossip

that is exactly what Jane's is doing since 1898

Edited July 14, 2022 by CaID

[ChosenOfSlaanesh 38]

When you use "stolen", you have to provide the direct evidences. As I know, the Israeli government has made it clear that the two planes are not related. Your unreasonable speech just makes me feel that you are a person who hates China. There are lots of direct evidences like papers, articles to show how China designed J10, and you said these evidences are not trusted. 

 

[leroyonly 4,303]

And this now has gone past the point of discussion and has entered the time where it's just going around in circles. If there is a disagreement about sources and their claims, provide counter sources. Not just "he said, she said", yes at times English sources are incorrect but like with the F-4EJ the way to correct misunderstandings is by using sources that correct things. I will now clean this mess up and consider this a warning going forward.

[CLOSE_RANGE 74]

It is true that the Chinese military industry learned a lot by studying foreign equipment in the 1980s-1990s and applied the lessons to subsequent domestic products or manufactured their own derivatives. However in many cases they simply bought it and it's harder to classify something as theft if you paid for it.

 

China worked with Israel quite a lot in that era. For example, Israel wanted to submit a bid for Romania's MiG-21 upgrade program and had some good tech on hand like MFDs and the EL/M-2032 radar, which was a derivative of the radar developed for the IAI Lavi, but needed a system integrator with extensive experience with the MiG-21. China did that in exchange for technology transfer and thus legitimately obtained technology that would be useful later on, such as the use of planar array antennas. The PL-8 is also in fact a licensed copy of the Python-3 according to the sources I've read.

 

I would not be surprised if Israel sold some Lavi research or technology to China at some point but they are clearly different aircraft and I am inclined to think that the J-10's design is mostly indigenous. The J-9 program explored a very wide variety of aerodynamic layouts and several greatly resembling the J-10 were made even before the Lavi first flew in 1987.

 

2 hours ago, CaID said:

but also another fact, the J-10 development was started back to scratch in 1987, The IAI Lavi was cancelled in 1987. 3 IAI lavi was built. 2 of which fate was know, the 3rd one went missing. the J-10 development took real form and changed drastically his design the same year. Chengdu engaged the fallowing year to acquired the license to built the Pratt & Whitney for the J-10, Pratt & Whitney been the engine used on the Lavi. the Radar of the J-10 is a local copy of the F-16 radar which is also the Radar used on the Lavi. the forward wings, the general design and initial concept was identical to to the Lavi. and one Lavi went missing.

I can tell there are very big problems in this story already. The Lavi used the PW1120, which is a special derivative of the P&W F100 developed specifically for Israel. I can find no corroboration from any source that China tried or was successful in obtaining a production license for the PW1120, or even the F100 for that matter. The Lavi used the EL/M-2032 (in some sources referred to as the EL/M-2035) radar domestically designed by Israel, and although it is also a planar array pulse-doppler radar like the F-16A's AN/APG-66, I'm quite sure that you are offending Israeli engineers by implying it is an F-16 radar.

 

Janes' is a good starting point for research and often has relevant information pulled from trade shows, export brochures and such, but it is not so authoritative that you can believe everything you read in it, especially if it contradicts other sources and in this case is also hearsay. Chinese language print sources such as books and encyclopedias would be preferred and many materials on the Chinese internet are restatements of those; I do not have access to them right now but I'm sure we have users here who would be happy to provide excerpts once things calm down a bit.

 

I like your suggestion threads and support adding the J-10A to War Thunder whenever the F-16 and MiG-29 arrive because it's iconic and on a similar technological level, but in the meantime I strongly suggest you rename the thread because clearly the current title is causing a lot of vitriol and promoting negative stereotypes.

Edited July 14, 2022 by CLOSE_RANGE

[ChosenOfSlaanesh 38]

7 minutes ago, leroyonly said:

And this now has gone past the point of discussion and has entered the time where it's just going around in circles. If there is a disagreement about sources and their claims, provide counter sources. Not just "he said, she said", yes at times English sources are incorrect but like with the F-4EJ the way to correct misunderstandings is by using sources that correct things. I will now clean this mess up and consider this a warning going forward.

I think this will never end until he changes the insulting title. In particular, he can't provide any direct evidence. Maybe you need to change the title to end this problem. 

[CaID 8,972]

15 minutes ago, leroyonly said:

And this now has gone past the point of discussion and has entered the time where it's just going around in circles. If there is a disagreement about sources and their claims, provide counter sources. Not just "he said, she said", yes at times English sources are incorrect but like with the F-4EJ the way to correct misunderstandings is by using sources that correct things. I will now clean this mess up and consider this a warning going forward.

R &  U

6 minutes ago, _EQUINOX_ said:

I think this will never end until he changes the insulting title. In particular, he can't provide any direct evidence. Maybe you need to change the title to end this problem. 

if that was just the tittle the problem, you should just ask directly. there is no big deal there

Edited July 14, 2022 by CaID

[Defy_Doll94 160]

"Learning from western" refers to the original aerodynamic shape lol