f16 F-16 Fighting Falcon: History, Performance & Discussion

[MiG_23M 1,606]

Abusing elevator trim to overcome G lock is "not a bug"
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/OnnS3d17wFY6

The F-16 and MiG-29 can sustain high G turns (>9) unhindered by G lock simply by using high amounts of elevator trim.

[MiG_23M 1,606]

@TrickZZter Can you explain what you mean by this? Is there no modeled G limits on the F-16 right now?

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,756]

8 hours ago, MiG_23M said:

@TrickZZter Can you explain what you mean by this? Is there no modeled G limits on the F-16 right now?

There is no current button/option in cockpit, so the pilot can't on/off it?

 

Unlike Mirage 2000.

Edited January 10 by Cpt_Bel_V

[SlowHandClap 510]

49 minutes ago, Cpt_Bel_V said:

There is no current button/option in cockpit, so the pilot can't on/off it?

 

Unlike Mirage 2000.

Cockpit buttons don't mean anything. The in game Harrier GR.1 cockpit has included a counter measure switch since it was introduced, but the GR.1 never had the option of counter measures in real life. 

[Flame2512 3,353]

11 minutes ago, SlowHandClap said:

Cockpit buttons don't mean anything. The in game Harrier GR.1 cockpit has included a counter measure switch since it was introduced, but the GR.1 never had the option of counter measures in real life. 

 

I think they are referring to real life. The F-16 could not disable its G / AOA limiter, but other fly by wire aircraft could. For example, the Tornado had a switch in the cockpit to completely disable the AOA limiter (it didn't have a g limiter), presumably the mirage 2000 did as well.

[SlowHandClap 510]

14 minutes ago, Flame2512 said:

 

I think they are referring to real life. The F-16 could not disable its G / AOA limiter, but other fly by wire aircraft could. For example, the Tornado had a switch in the cockpit to completely disable the AOA limiter (it didn't have a g limiter), presumably the mirage 2000 did as well.

The impression I got from the dev response to the bug report, was that there isn't actually a G-limiter on the F-16, it's just a poorly made FM. 

[MiG_23M 1,606]

31 minutes ago, SlowHandClap said:

The impression I got from the dev response to the bug report, was that there isn't actually a G-limiter on the F-16, it's just a poorly made FM. 

This is what I understand as well.

[Gunjob 1,073]

36 minutes ago, SlowHandClap said:

The impression I got from the dev response to the bug report, was that there isn't actually a G-limiter on the F-16, it's just a poorly made FM. 

Its a report about overcoming G-loc with trim controls not G-limiters. Normally G-loc prevents control input, but you can use the trim controls to trim out the elevator and use that as a janky elevator control.

 

Ignore me, just saw the G limit being exceeded haha.

 

Wonder if the limiter is being enforced by the instructor only?

Edited January 10 by Gunjob

[MiG_23M 1,606]

3 minutes ago, Gunjob said:

Its a report about overcoming G-loc with trim controls not G-limiters. Normally G-loc prevents control input, but you can use the trim controls to trim out the elevator and use that as a janky elevator control.

 

Ignore me, just saw the G limit being exceeded haha.

 

Wonder if the limiter is being enforced by the instructor only?

They said there is no FBW modeled for the F-16, I guess it is just "nerfed".

[Gunjob 1,073]

1 minute ago, MiG_23M said:

They said there is no FBW modeled for the F-16, I guess it is just "nerfed".

If we consider the ability to exceed the "limit" is possible using trim controls which cannot be disabled. Then I'd hazard a guess theyre using the instructor to limit the control input in a non trimmed out scenario.

[MiG_23M 1,606]

7 minutes ago, Gunjob said:

If we consider the ability to exceed the "limit" is possible using trim controls which cannot be disabled. Then I'd hazard a guess theyre using the instructor to limit the control input in a non trimmed out scenario.

Yes congrats, I agreed with you and you repeated yourself...

[[email protected] 2,168]

10 hours ago, MiG_23M said:

Abusing elevator trim to overcome G lock is "not a bug"
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/OnnS3d17wFY6

The F-16 and MiG-29 can sustain high G turns (>9) unhindered by G lock simply by using high amounts of elevator trim.

 

Oh hey look...the thing that I said wasn't a bug earlier in the thread and that you got mad at me about...is not actually a bug. 

 

It's almost like you don't know what you are talking about and haven't known what you are talking about for the entire thread. Neat.

[MiG_23M 1,606]

15 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

 

Oh hey look...the thing that I said wasn't a bug earlier in the thread and that you got mad at me about...is not actually a bug. 

 

It's almost like you don't know what you are talking about and haven't known what you are talking about for the entire thread. Neat.

Or a tech mod from the Russian forum who does ground arcade only put his nose in a report that was already being worked for some reason...

[Cpt_Bel_V 4,756]

2 hours ago, SlowHandClap said:

Cockpit buttons don't mean anything. The in game Harrier GR.1 cockpit has included a counter measure switch since it was introduced, but the GR.1 never had the option of counter measures in real life. 

In game cockpit are shared with GR.3, as F-86F are shared for all F-86 in game aswell as F-86K, or F-84G,... and Many other aircrafts

 

I do obviously talked about IRL pictures, or even scheme from manuals,...

 

Do more research, show us any button that will disengage the FBW, or any MFD function that do the same.

[spacenavy90 1,399]

[[email protected] 2,168]

1 hour ago, MiG_23M said:

Or a tech mod from the Russian forum who does ground arcade only put his nose in a report that was already being worked for some reason...

 

It seems to me that a mod forwarded it to developers....developer tells mod it's not a bug...and then mod puts out statement that it isn't a bug.

 

It's a simple process. Sorry that you were wrong again.

[MiG_23M 1,606]

6 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

 

It seems to me that a mod forwarded it to developers....developer tells mod it's not a bug...and then mod puts out statement that it isn't a bug.

 

It's a simple process. Sorry that you were wrong again.

Perception, I don't think that was the case here.

[[email protected] 2,168]

1 minute ago, MiG_23M said:

Perception, I don't think that was the case here.

 

Then what do you think is the case?

 

Because from your previous replies it seems your implying some sort of conspiracy.

[WreckingAres283 4,245]

2.23.0.49 changes (might not be live yet) :

• AN/APG-66 (all, incl. 66J)
  • Radar scope sets:
    • "range1": 18500.0, -->   37000.0,
    • "range2": 37000.0, -->   74000.0,
    • "range3": 74000.0, --> 148000.0,
    • "range4": 148000.0 --> 18500.0

[TyphoonCro 6,816]

2 minutes ago, WreckingAres283 said:

2.23.0.49 changes (might not be live yet) :

• AN/APG-66 (all, incl. 66J)
  • Radar scope sets:
    • "range1": 18500.0, -->   37000.0,
    • "range2": 37000.0, -->   74000.0,
    • "range3": 74000.0, --> 148000.0,
    • "range4": 148000.0 --> 18500.0

 

Any other changes?

[[email protected] 2,168]

3 hours ago, Flame2512 said:

 

I think they are referring to real life. The F-16 could not disable its G / AOA limiter, but other fly by wire aircraft could. For example, the Tornado had a switch in the cockpit to completely disable the AOA limiter (it didn't have a g limiter), presumably the mirage 2000 did as well.

 

The G-Limiter/Fly-By-Wire system isn't modeled in-game.

 

The developers are using elevator compression as a means to mimic the G-Limiter/Fly-By-Wire function in-game so that the plane isn't able to pull more than 9-10g while using mouse aim.

 

Actually modeling the G-Limit would require an entirely new function in their flight modeling system.

 

The same concept probably applies to trim where trim tabs aren't actually modeled as their own separate thing and they are just changing resting control inputs to fullfil the same function as trim.

 

It's not a bug because that's how Gaijin has decided to implement it in their flight modeling system. They don't have an option to turn trim off or limit it because it's not really trim in the first place and to model trim parameters and trim tabs correctly adds a completely unnecessary layer of complexity.

 

 

 

 

[WreckingAres283 4,245]

3 minutes ago, TyphoonCro said:

Any other changes?

 

Regarding F-16 and other top tiers, nope, only some ammo storrage for grounds and the previous HMD changes, as well as other (minor) changes.  

 

[SlowHandClap 510]

1 hour ago, Cpt_Bel_V said:

In game cockpit are shared with GR.3, as F-86F are shared for all F-86 in game aswell as F-86K, or F-84G,... and Many other aircrafts

 

So?

 

1 hour ago, Cpt_Bel_V said:

I do obviously talked about IRL pictures, or even scheme from manuals,...

 

There is nothing obvious about your comments due to your English. 

[Nostalgistic 310]

Submitted my F-16I "Sufa" suggestion, and it is approved and opened.

 

[MiG_23M 1,606]

1 hour ago, [email protected] said:

 

The G-Limiter/Fly-By-Wire system isn't modeled in-game.

 

The developers are using elevator compression as a means to mimic the G-Limiter/Fly-By-Wire function in-game so that the plane isn't able to pull more than 9-10g while using mouse aim.

 

Actually modeling the G-Limit would require an entirely new function in their flight modeling system.

 

The same concept probably applies to trim where trim tabs aren't actually modeled as their own separate thing and they are just changing resting control inputs to fullfil the same function as trim.

 

It's not a bug because that's how Gaijin has decided to implement it in their flight modeling system. They don't have an option to turn trim off or limit it because it's not really trim in the first place and to model trim parameters and trim tabs correctly adds a completely unnecessary layer of complexity.

 

 

 

 

You're wrong, some aircraft do not get the ability to adjust trim in matches but rather only in test flights prior.

 

This shows they can easily remove the trim adjustment or only permit it's ability to be set prior to fly out in an actual match.

 

The F-16 doesn't need manual trim.