The state of the Stormer HVM is an absolute tragedy

[Casino_Knight 165]

• Lock on will occasionally severely spaz out for no discernible reason causing you to miss as it drags the missile about with it
• Lock on will occasionally drop entirely for no discernible reason despite having no obstruction
• Lock on will occasionally switch to something totally random despite no input to do so
• Will fail to lock on to targets despite no obstructions and within range occasionally
• Missiles at close range will frequently phase through whatever aircraft you are shooting at
• Missiles at long range will also frequently phase through aircraft for no discernible reason
• Due to recent nerfs is extremely difficult to even hit anything with a 3km radius
• Starstreak velocity/control changes that have been made because gaijin feels like it (not even sekrit dokuments, just "We're going to ignore everything and decide ourselves what it's specifications are")

 

And the worst part is they're never going to fix this vehicle, probably nerf/massacre it even more in the future. One of the more interesting top tier SPAA and made into one of the most infuriating because of all the random xxxx you have to contend with. I could play for a single day and have an hour long montage of jank xxxx that happens with this vehicle.

 

Absolute tragedy.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Casino_Knight
Typo

[CTCrusader 213]

 

Failure to lock is just lag/server jank as you point where you see the aircraft is but it is actually much farther ahead as the visual model is lagging behind. 

 

I do not know about lock dropping unless the aircraft is close to the ground which happens with other spaa. 

 

Lock switching to something random is probably the aircraft deploying chaff which your lock will mistake as the real aircraft. 

 

I do not know about missile phasing through things. Maybe it is just near misses you have and this isn't helped by the fact that the missile itself, as it does not explode when close to an aircraft. The british love their solid shot so much that they turned it into a missile. 

 

Speed/mobility nerfs happened to all missiles across the board as gravity is applied to all missiles now I believe. But hey 3km is farther than most guns can reach effectively. 

 

Radar lock spazzing out is one: aircraft flew super low close to the ground losing your lock and causing it to spaz, or two: its chaff causing your missile to spaz as out as it falls to the ground and your lock ends. Could be other things but this is what happens to me in my spaa the most. 

 

I hope this helped but it might not have, so ask away if you still confused (I will not have answer for everything, I don't play britain spaa, and is taken off my experience with other spaa but due to how radar works in warthunder its all the same basically). It definitely won't help you in game but might make your experience more enjoyable now knowing what might be causing the stormer to 'act up'.    

 

Edits: Missile isn't slow. My bad. 

Edited June 28, 2022 by CTCrusader
Incorrect info

[The Missile Knows Where It Is 54]

I've yet to find a consistent way to replicate the "phasing through" bug, somtimes it does the thing sometimes it doesn't, I cannot find a pattern. Maybe if enough people experiences the same bug we can throw a bug report together, at least I have plenty of footages showing the bug.

Edit: just checked the bug reporting section and apparently it just got flagged as a known issue, guess we just have to wait another year for them to fix it? 

Edited June 28, 2022 by WTIsFineGibMoney

[[email protected] 1,949]

1 hour ago, CTCrusader said:

A reason the missiles get slower after a certain point is that the carrying missile splits into three smaller missiles all connected with wire I believe which increases drag. I think. 

 

Failure to lock is just lag/server jank as you point where you see the aircraft is but it is actually much farther ahead as the visual model is lagging behind. 

 

I do not know about lock dropping unless the aircraft is close to the ground which happens with other spaa. 

 

Lock switching to something random is probably the aircraft deploying chaff which your lock will mistake as the real aircraft. 

 

Radar lock spazzing out is one: aircraft flew super low close to the ground losing your lock and causing it to spaz, or two: its chaff causing your missile to spaz as out as it falls to the ground and your lock ends. Could be other things but this is what happens to me in my spaa the most. 

    

It's not radar guided and the darts aren't connected by wire and should keep their speed throughout their range because of their design compared to a conventional missile unit 

[The Missile Knows Where It Is 54]

3 hours ago, CTCrusader said:

Maybe it is just near misses you have and this isn't helped by the fact that the missile itself, as it does not explode when close to an aircraft. The british love their solid shot so much that they turned it into a missile. 

Definitely not near misses, if you try to shoot the same spot using any other missile (even ATGMs like the TOW), the aircraft blows up, but somehow starstreaks deals no damage, not even effects from the missile physically interacting with the aircraft.

 

Spoiler

 

 

3 hours ago, CTCrusader said:

Lock switching to something random is probably the aircraft deploying chaff which your lock will mistake as the real aircraft. 

The starstreak uses IRST image tracking/laser beam riding guidiance, no countermeasures should affect the lock, having the lock switch to chaffs/flares in game is just wrong.

 

3 hours ago, CTCrusader said:

Speed nerfs happened to all missiles across the board as gravity is applied to all missiles now I believe. Doesn't help the startstreak as it is already slow. But hey 3km is farther than most guns can reach effectively. 

Don't know where you got the idea that starstreaks are already slow, it was and still is one of the fastest missiles in game despite the speed nerfs, the darts should also keep energy much better than conventional missiles due to their small size, the 3km radius maneuverability nerf was still unexplained by Gaijin and it still baffles me how a MANPAD system designed to deal with fast moving targets (even cruise missiles as stated by Thales) at short range struggles to hit even slow moving helicopters in game.

 

3 hours ago, CTCrusader said:

due to how radar works in warthunder its all the same basically

I think that is mainly the problem here, the Stormer HVM is unlike any other SAM systems found in game and Gaijin might not really have the intentions to model it correctly with its unique features, they just keep applying the general mechanics to it and thats why its broken patch after patch.

[Sarcastic_Bullet 816]

6 hours ago, Casino_Knight said:

• Lock on will occasionally severely spaz out for no discernible reason causing you to miss as it drags the missile about with it
• Lock on will occasionally drop entirely for no discernible reason despite having no obstruction
• Lock on will occasionally switch to something totally random despite to input to do so
• Will fail to lock on to targets despite no obstructions and within range occasionally

 

They have no idea how to properly model IRST tracking for the Stormer. Simple as that.

 

6 hours ago, Casino_Knight said:

• Missiles at close range will frequently phase through whatever aircraft you are shooting at
• Missiles at long range will also frequently phase through aircraft for no discernible reason

 

This has been a thing since the Stormer was introduced. The issue happens because how aircraft hit boxes are designed and how they interact with kinetic ammo. Basically, if you hit a module hitbox (the ones you can see in X-ray) you register the hit, if not, the darts just phase through. My last bug report on this was a few years ago, still not fixed. If you add to this the delay with which the server registers the hit, you get a lot of phase throughs.

 

6 hours ago, Casino_Knight said:

• Due to recent nerfs is extremely difficult to even hit anything with a 3km radius

 

It always was.

 

6 hours ago, Casino_Knight said:

• Starstreak velocity/control changes that have been made because gaijin feels like it (not even sekrit dokuments, just "We're going to ignore everything and decide ourselves what it's specifications are)

 

Probably the only SPAA that you have to learn to play again after each patch with "fixes".

 

As I have said before, the Stormer is the only SPAA that was broken since its introduction, is still broken and will always be broken.

[Casino_Knight 165]

1 hour ago, Sarcastic_Bullet said:

This has been a thing since the Stormer was introduced. The issue happens because how aircraft hit boxes are designed and how they interact with kinetic ammo. Basically, if you hit a module hitbox (the ones you can see in X-ray) you register the hit, if not, the darts just phase through. My last bug report on this was a few years ago, still not fixed. If you add to this the delay with which the server registers the hit, you get a lot of phase throughs.

 

Yeah I've even had people on the opposing team say in all chat that they have no idea how they're still alive because even on their screen the missile just phased through their aircraft without taking damage. So like you say it's not just a latency issue, and the latency issue is bad enough. When your missiles are phasing through aircraft doing a head-on from 6km out and just fly right through, or a heli that is just sat there hovering still you know something especially fucky is happening.

 

7 hours ago, WTIsFineGibMoney said:

I've yet to find a consistent way to replicate the "phasing through" bug, somtimes it does the thing sometimes it doesn't, I cannot find a pattern. Maybe if enough people experiences the same bug we can throw a bug report together, at least I have plenty of footages showing the bug.

Edit: just checked the bug reporting section and apparently it just got flagged as a known issue, guess we just have to wait another year for them to fix it? 

 

Yeah the amount of bugs and random consistency really cripple this vehicle and make it frustrating to play. It's a real shame because when it actually works, I love it. It's would probably be my favourite SPAA in the game because having to land direct hits is a satisfying thing to pull-off. Hell even if the bugs were once in a blue moon I wouldn't care, but there isn't a damn game that goes by where there aren't.

[Sarcastic_Bullet 816]

25 minutes ago, Casino_Knight said:

Yeah I've even had people on the opposing team say in all chat that they have no idea how they're still alive because even on their screen the missile just phased through their aircraft without taking damage. So like you say it's not just a latency issue, and the latency issue is bad enough. When your missiles are phasing through aircraft doing a head-on from 6km out and just fly right through, or a heli that is just sat there hovering still you know something especially fucky is happening.

 

It's not only on their screen, it's on the server too. I found one of the screenshots from the bug report, you can see the Starstreak peaking through the rotor housing.

 

[Casino_Knight 165]

1 minute ago, Sarcastic_Bullet said:

 

It's not only on their screen, it's on the server too. I found one of the screenshots from the bug report, you can see the Starstreak peaking through the rotor housing.

 

 

Just looking at this makes me irrationally angry.

[CTCrusader 213]

5 hours ago, Sarcastic_Bullet said:

This has been a thing since the Stormer was introduced. The issue happens because how aircraft hit boxes are designed and how they interact with kinetic ammo. Basically, if you hit a module hitbox (the ones you can see in X-ray) you register the hit, if not, the darts just phase through. My last bug report on this was a few years ago, still not fixed. If you add to this the delay with which the server registers the hit, you get a lot of phase throughs.

 

Maybe they can fix it by adding a small hidden proxy fuse no larger than the head/heads itself so that it will explode on impact? 

[Casino_Knight 165]

1 hour ago, CTCrusader said:

Maybe they can fix it by adding a small hidden proxy fuse no larger than the head/heads itself so that it will explode on impact? 

Star streak already has explosives inside the three individual warheads. The problem is that it will never detonate if it doesn't hit the aircraft, except missiles are hitting aircraft and phasing through them without ever registering a hit. Both player side and server side. Since unlike other missile SPAA where they have proxy fuses to detonate, you need a direct hit on the aircraft and for it to then register that hit to even do anything. This means that the stormer is far less forgiving than even missile SPAA lower in BR than it.

 

Throw in the list of bugs I stated in the OP and you have one very unreliable SPAA.

 

Fixing the issue of phasing through would be a start, then you also have the issue of latency and the precision required with the stormer. They could alleviate this by giving the warheads a small proxy detonation which they never had in reality to compensate, because equally in reality you don't have latency in the real world and there will always be latency in war thunder.

[The Missile Knows Where It Is 54]

There is already a suggestion on adding the LMM for use on the Stormer, basically it is a slower missile that has a proximity fuse and can be used on the same launcher. I'd say fix the issue with the startstreak phasing through targets and give it the LMM to deal with fast moving targets like jets.

Might also be helpful if they could lower it to a BR where it actually has a lineup and lower the ridiculous 10.3k repair cost as it stands today... But one can dream 

[RussianBuddhist 65]

I haven't play british top tier for a week or more, now I am having exactly same issue as you, absolutely disgusting issue, now starstreak is practically unplayable. 

 

I always use my worst mind to guess gaijin, so I can only come to the conclusion that gaijin don't want british players have a effective weapon to against their mighty invincible Russian Federation vehicles.

[RoyallCSGO 7]

 

[Casino_Knight 165]

58 minutes ago, RoyallCSGO said:

 

Perfect video, this is exactly what happens a stupid amount of the time. Then you've also got the phase through within 3km which I've also checked server side since and yeah, even there they're phasing through. They've really butchered something.

 

Pic related, server side and didn't count as a hit.

[gives_no_Fs 337]

Got a theory spaghetti-code combined Starstreak code with the AA on the nearest helipads which is just an audiovisual experience.

 

With chat back I've made it a habit to speak out when an enemy player gets screwed over by what should have killed, crit, or at all dealt damage to me but did nothing, and I speak out A LOT.

[Casino_Knight 165]

1 minute ago, I_CHUG_JP8 said:

Got a theory spaghetti-code combined Starstreak code with the AA on the nearest helipads which is just an audiovisual experience.

 

With chat back I've made it a habit to speak out when an enemy player gets screwed over by what should have killed, crit, or at all dealt damage to me but did nothing, and I speak out A LOT.

Yeah I had two people in one game yesterday both telling in all chat that they have no idea how they aren't dead. That even on their screens the missiles passed straight through them (this was beyond 3km too), and this was 2-3 missile launches per vehicle too.

 

When even the enemy is sympathising with how **** and ***** your vehicle is you know it's bad.

[meki98 78]

what? the stormer is op. its the best aa in the game (highest aa repair cost in the game afaik). i cant even hit anything even in test drive but gaijins statistics never lie, just get gud 

 

for real i don't even know what to say the missile starts of half a screen away from the reticle(did it get the Javelin flight model? and yea i mean the antitank Javelin). then it tries to find the reticle at which point the plane has ether passed way or the g-forces are so high the missile cant keep up and on top of that they like to become invisible randomly during flight

and the radar likes to wiggle around

Edited June 30, 2022 by meki98

[meki98 78]

After a bit more testing it works if the minimum engage distance is more than 2 kilometers and the plane isn't flying sideways or up and down 

 

For everything else it's borderline useless 

Needs to back 8.0, 

 

Don't understand why the stormer constantly goas from op to terrible and back 

 

But I remember last time it was bad it altest was an amazing ground killer but last time I tested that it didn't work at all Ether 

Edited July 2, 2022 by meki98

[Casino_Knight 165]

29 minutes ago, meki98 said:

After a bit more testing it works if the minimum engage distance is more than 2 kilometers and the plane isn't flying sideways or up and down 

 

For everything else it's borderline useless 

Needs to back 8.0, 

 

Don't understand why the stormer constantly goas from op to terrible and back 

 

But I remember last time it was bad it altest was an amazing ground killer but last time I tested that it didn't work at all Ether 

Nah it happens with aircraft flying in a straight line, either straight at you or in level flight. With alarming frequency too.

[CrossEyedN00b 2,396]

Hello there, Storming fellas

 

WarThunder wiki states that Stormer should have IFF but in-game it does not.

Stormer HVM - War Thunder Wiki

 

I cannot find any information that would confirm or deny the IFF.

 

Anyone has any info?

 

EDIT: Wow, I just noticed that Stormer costs 11k SL to repair. FlaRakRad in comparison is only 6 (stock)

@Smin1080p

Can we have your comment here? Why is the Stormer so expensive to repair if it's so ineffective at its job?

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by CrossEyedN00b

[Smin1080p 60,301]

2 hours ago, CrossEyedN00b said:

Hello there, Storming fellas

 

WarThunder wiki states that Stormer should have IFF but in-game it does not.

Stormer HVM - War Thunder Wiki

 

I cannot find any information that would confirm or deny the IFF.

 

Anyone has any info?

 

EDIT: Wow, I just noticed that Stormer costs 11k SL to repair. FlaRakRad in comparison is only 6 (stock)

@Smin1080p

Can we have your comment here? Why is the Stormer so expensive to repair if it's so ineffective at its job?

 

 

Repair costs are calculated based on the direct income of the vehcile in question as well as rank.

 

So if it's more than its peers on the same rank, that means economically it's earning more too. 

[Gunjob 1,086]

@Smin1080p Do we have any ETA on Starstreaks passing through targets?

[Smin1080p 60,301]

1 hour ago, Gunjob said:

@Smin1080p Do we have any ETA on Starstreaks passing through targets?

 

Being investigated. However I cannot provide an ETA at this time. 

[Royal_Jellybags 2,634]

On 06/07/2022 at 19:34, Smin1080p said:

 

Repair costs are calculated based on the direct income of the vehcile in question as well as rank.

 

So if it's more than its peers on the same rank, that means economically it's earning more too. 

 

how is it earning more if it cant get kills?