Jump to content

196 A-5 Poll  

45 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like to see the Finnish Arado Ar 196 A-5 in game?

    • Yes
      44
    • No
      1


The Arado Ar-196 was a well designed and very effective reconnaissance aircraft in ww2 and deserves more of a place in the game outside of an event vehicle status, I propose the addition of an A-5 model to be added to the Swedish Tier I Premium line as hundreds of them were built and the Finnish purchased and used many of them in combat! I suggest  Premium  as amongst other aircraft in the war it's not a hugely common sight and just feels right in terms of fitting in the game as a premium, I don't think it would work well as a standard tech tree. Also, the rest of the Finnish aircraft are in the premium line so it's better to keep the line consistent.

 

The variant the Fins purchased was the A-3 which were then converted into the A-5. the upgrades involved adding the MG FF/M cannons which were capable of firing the Minengeschoß round and had an extra 30 rounds of ammunition per gun bringing the total ammo count for the cannons from 120 to 180 (it retained the single MG 17 in the engine cowling which was unchanged). The A-5 also had upgraded defensive armament - removing the single MG 15 from the A-3 and instead installing twin MG 81 machine guns with 2000 rounds of ammunition (known as MG 81Z), vastly improving the defensive capability. In order to effectively protect the crew against the higher calibre weaponry of the mid-war the fins also installed armour plating in the pilot seat, behind the pilot and gunner position.

 

Here are some specifications of the Arado Ar-193 A-5

 

Engine: x1 BMW 132K air cooled radial piston engine (970HP)

Armament: x1 7.92mm MG 17 Machine Gun (500 rounds), x2 20mm MG FF/M Cannon (180 rounds), x1 MG 81Z defensive gun (2000 rounds), (Optional) 2x 50kg bombs

Maximum speed: 310 km/h @ sea level 

Range: 1,070 km

Service ceiling: 7,020m

Climb rate: 343 metres/minute

Empty Weight: 2350kg (5181lbs)

Loaded Weight: 3318kg (7315lbs)

Span: 12.42m (40.75ft)

Length: 10.96m (35.95ft)

Height: 4.44m (14.58ft)

Wing area: 28.29 sq. m (304.618 sq. ft.)

 

Proposed Battle Rating: Considering it's a pretty clear upgrade over the A-3 I recommend a br of 1.7 (AB), 1.7 (RB), 2.0 (SB) to account for it's increased armament but also survivability - as it still maintains the same slow speed and sub-par performance it should still stay in Tier I and EC1 for sim as it's upgrades are not a game-changer to it's role or effectiveness, but rather just an upgrade to stave off obsolescence and keep it kicking in the air!

 

After being on a waiting list I've received documents from the Finnish National Archives on the Arado 196 and had them professionally translated. I've put them in an imgur album

 

Primary Sources (Imgur album): https://imgur.com/gallery/g1wqWum

 

Source 1: (cross reference MG 81Z)  https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.php?aircraft_id=320

Source 2: (Ammunition load for MG 17)  https://airandspace.si.edu/collection-objects/arado-ar-196-5/nasm_A19610128000

Source 3: (A-5 using FF/M cannon cross referenced)  https://aviation-history.fandom.com/wiki/MG_FF_20mm_Cannon

Source 4: (Finnish using A-5, MG FF/M cannon, 90 round mag, MG81Z and ammunition load, cross reference added armour)  https://militaryaviationhistory.blogspot.com/2022/04/arado-ar-196-eyes-of-kreigsmarine.html

Source 5: (Cross reference Finnish using A-5)  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Air_Force

Source 6: (Armour plating for pilot and observer, cross reference extended magazines for cannons)  https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Arado_Ar_196

Source 7: (Technical Specs - performance applies to both A-3 & A-5 as weight difference is negligible)  http://www.ww2.dk/misc/ar196.htm

 

 

I hope you agree this would give us floatplane enthusiasts who joined post 2020 a chance to enjoy this incredible aircraft!

 

Sidenote on weight to justify my conclusion on Source 7

 

A-3: MG 15 (12kg), x2 MG FF w/60 rounds ammo (26.3kg) + 8kg ammo, no armour (+0kg) = 46.3kg

A-5: MG 81Z (6.3kg), x2 MG FF/M w/90 rounds ammo (26.3kg) + 8.1kg ammo, Armour plates (60kg) = 100.7kg

 

Weight difference between these two aircraft when loaded up is 54kg (+1.6% weight) - not nearly a significant enough change to warrant a change in flight performance

521972305_Screenshot2022-04-28at1_03.05am2_08_57am.png

2039297212_Screenshot2022-04-28at1_03.16am2_08_58am.png

Screenshot 2022-05-02 at 4.54.22 pm-min.jpg

Edited by Alexandros11
Housekeeping
  • Like 4
  • Haha 1
  • Upvote 7
medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Senior Suggestion Moderator

Open for discussion. :salute:

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, gihrenzabi said:

Rock solid source this time: translated Finnish National Archives! How about that, now that's dedicated research. I wish you the best of luck to get this plane added

It was a lot of work! I had to pay for a license to use them and have them professionally translated by a FNA appointed official but I'm glad in the end I got the confirmation I needed - next step is to get Gaijin to add it! :DD

medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, AboveTheClouds83 said:

Yep, would love to see this one in game too!

It would be a dream to have a fight with a zero in this thing, pretty good guns out the front and back! Weirdly, I feel as if I'd take it out into 3.7-4.7 with my Pyorremyrsky and 109 G-6 as it kind of has a niche there? Would have very fast turn rate and pretty decent weaponry even for that BR. Mostly probably as a reconnaisance aircraft that can do odd jobs here and there at high alts (take out recon planes, help cap A points, support a friendly in an emergency). Not neccesarily better than other aircraft at that role but there's just something special about it idk (especially as it was actually flying in that time period too). Sometimes the most effective vehicles aren't necessarily the most fun

Edited by Alexandros11
medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 03/05/2022 at 18:18, GTS_VT_Jonsoon81@psn said:

I'd love to have this in the swedish tree, adding more variety for low tier CAS!!

I agree! I think War thunder should really start going back into lower tiers there is soooo much they could add! On top of this I think adding scout planes would be awesome to the game! In a way dedicated scout planes. Now like hear my out. We have light tanks that could do scouting and stuff but planes made to do this type of stuff such as the Arado that (please Gaijin add) was a dedicated scout plane could use a *ability* if you will that allows it to automatically mark targets at a certain altitude? Kinda like how light tanks have the bino ability. It would present itself in my eyes as a very useful CAS aircraft because of its ability to fly over and spot enemy targets. Even in SIM! I think it would be great if you were working together since targets can be a bit hard to see. Even if "scout planes" are never added it would still be awesome to see this amazing Finnish plane added.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 but the German side needs an A-5 as well since the current Ar 196 A-3 is out of place on all the +1943 ships on the German side (Prinz Eugen, Scharnhorst)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Chomusuke1 said:

+1 but the German side needs an A-5 as well since the current Ar 196 A-3 is out of place on all the +1943 ships on the German side (Prinz Eugen, Scharnhorst)

That's true although the plane that's launched from the ships and the plane that's in the tech tree don't necessarily have the be the same plane

medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 Very interesting aircraft. There were several references in the history that it was operated as a troop transport aircraft, flying out of a lake.

Murmur: The Ar196 has fuel tanks on the floats, so the model I am thinking of probably does not exist, but do you know if a model with sleds instead of floats existed? In Finland, there are many aircraft with sleds because the lakes freeze over, and it would be interesting to see an Ar196 modified and equipped with its own valiant with a sled...

 

  • Upvote 1
medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

20 minutes ago, Alpine_Lynx said:

+1 Very interesting aircraft. There were several references in the history that it was operated as a troop transport aircraft, flying out of a lake.

Murmur: The Ar196 has fuel tanks on the floats, so the model I am thinking of probably does not exist, but do you know if a model with sleds instead of floats existed? In Finland, there are many aircraft with sleds because the lakes freeze over, and it would be interesting to see an Ar196 modified and equipped with its own valiant with a sled...

 

Yes, I've also heard these stories about troop transport. I don't think the floats could be removed as they were fixed pretty permanently in place and I don't know where the fuel would have gone. You are right though, they were used for troop transport though it probably would have been 1-3 people at a time. I suppose one solider could squeeze in with the gunner and two more in the storage space in the fuselage behind the gunner - this is probably what is meant when it says it was used for troop transport!

 

Also, perhaps the Arado 196 was only used by the Fins in summer when the lakes weren't frozen? My references are all from June-August so it's possible they simply had to use some other aircraft during the summer  or they might have had to be coastal based during the winter months as the sea doesn't freeze over.

Edited by Alexandros11
  • Thanks 1
medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

14 minutes ago, NovA29R said:

you want it in sweden tree?

Yeah that's what I was thinking, as a tier I premium - would you have any interesting in modelling the small changes? (MG 81Z, armour for pilot and gunner, new cannons... etc)

  • Like 1
medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...