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The F2G is a 6.7 plane.


_KingGhidorah_
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It is nearly 100kmh faster than most stuff in the 5.0-6.0 BR, it already got it's ammo belts and amount corrected, as well as it's 3000hp. It has to go up back to 6.7. 

 

It is practically impossible to deal with them in something like a k4 or a tempest mkV if the f2g player has a minimum of two braincells.

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2 minutes ago, Ub3rshadow said:

6.3, not 6.7, cause it used to be 6.7 and got melted, but yea it does need to go up. Only reason it's at 6.0 its players trade brain power for engine power.

it got melted because of player skill, "lack of" ammo and 200HP less. The one plane I've dealt with F2G best so far is ironically the j5n1.

Edited by _KingGhidorah_

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3 hours ago, Ub3rshadow said:

6.3, not 6.7, cause it used to be 6.7 and got melted, but yea it does need to go up. Only reason it's at 6.0 its players trade brain power for engine power.

Mmm, I played it when it was 6.7 when the first battle pass was active, and being my first 6.7 (I only had 5.3 at that time lol) I had a 2+ K/d on it. I believe it should be 6.7 tbf, but 6.3 is necessary

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57 minutes ago, Asghaad said:

 

ah right because its such a staple of "goblins" to provide sources, cite data or thoroughly explain reasons why something is or isnt right ...

 

pal it isnt me who cant even come up with an actual response to other people arguments...

 

you know like explaining why a plane with 1:1 K/D ratio deserves to be uptiered but one with almost 3:1 K/D is in need of help...

 

 

 

see im not the one spamming "im getting killed in a plane i play, please nerf its competition" over and over and OVER again here ...

 

Thunderskill captures around 1/15th of the player-base or less.

 

If the Bf.109 K-4 is so good...then why is it's win rate basically barely above 50% and why is the F2G around 70% in spite of lower K/D and K/B?

 

F2G is under-tiered because morons use it for grinding SL and the vast majority of it's players never attempt to use it correctly.

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9 minutes ago, UnknownDistance@psn said:

Thunderskill captures around 1/15th of the player-base or less.

 

i know, im not saying these are total stats 100% accurate but as approximation they are good enough

 

 

11 minutes ago, UnknownDistance@psn said:

If the Bf.109 K-4 is so good...then why is it's win rate basically barely above 50% and why is the F2G around 70% in spite of lower K/D and K/B?

 

JU288C ...

 

 

its a small miracle that K-4 isnt doing much worse when it and other fighters in the BR spread have to compensate for spam of that abomination.

 

16 minutes ago, UnknownDistance@psn said:

F2G is under-tiered because morons use it for grinding SL and the vast majority of it's players never attempt to use it correctly.

 

from what little experience i have with it id say it isnt as diabolical as some of you claim it to be. it doesnt climb particularly well, its maneuverability isnt anything to write home about either all its good for is outrunning other planes that are more maneuverable. Also its guns are absolute garbage (my personal opinion, i HATE guns that are "hose and pray for fire", my preference is the "if you connect they blow up" kind ... :) )

 

Maybe the actual problem is that WT players often condition themselves to "never turn in this plane" because its not a great turnfighter and its better used as energy or BnZ fighter but fail to realize that its always RELATIVE to what you are fighting and there are certain oponents you should try to force a turnfight with.

 

 

 

 

 

also im kind of sick and tired of Ghidora spamming the forum constantly with the same thing over and over again just with the different plane in the headline, its constant unending whine of "this kills me plz nerf" that after 20-ish time you see it gets kinda old ...

 

 

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1 hour ago, AngelPG2100 said:

Well, deflecting surfaces compress the faster you go. Can you pull 10G at 600 IAS now or not? If you don't try in the same conditions you can't compare the results

i flew the k4 for 2 years, from Northern Wind to today, and yes it got changed a lot.

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5 hours ago, UnknownDistance@psn said:

 

Thunderskill captures around 1/15th of the player-base or less.

 

If the Bf.109 K-4 is so good...then why is it's win rate basically barely above 50% and why is the F2G around 70% in spite of lower K/D and K/B?

 

F2G is under-tiered because morons use it for grinding SL and the vast majority of it's players never attempt to use it correctly.

 

As a lover of heavy fighters, I played a few Hornet matches last night and without fail, each time I would be facing the lone 152 and one or two K4s by myself while the five dunces on my team in F2Gs chased 288s around the map for 10 minutes while getting hosed down by 20mm.

 

It feels like most F2G (and XP-50) encounters these days are against below average pilots who use these planes as crutches. 

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5 hours ago, Asghaad said:
6 hours ago, UnknownDistance@psn said:

Thunderskill captures around 1/15th of the player-base or less.

 

i know, im not saying these are total stats 100% accurate but as approximation they are good enough

 

 

They really are not even remotely accurate... especially for the argument you are trying to make. Thunderskills numbers are all over the place because they merge ground and air battles, and AI kills and player kills into one statistic. Just for reference...the P-38L-0 has 8.91 air kills per battle for the past month.

 

Anything that appears in Thunderskill's aggregate numbers has to be taken in context and with a huge amount of qualification.

 

5 hours ago, Asghaad said:

from what little experience i have with it id say it isnt as diabolical as some of you claim it to be. it doesnt climb particularly well, its maneuverability isnt anything to write home about either all its good for is outrunning other planes that are more maneuverable. Also its guns are absolute garbage (my personal opinion, i HATE guns that are "hose and pray for fire", my preference is the "if you connect they blow up" kind ...

 

Compared to what?

 

It climbs basically on par with all of the late Bf.109s, while being faster at basically every altitude below 6km. Even when it has lost 1/3rd of it's horsepower, it will catch a Bf.109 G-10. At altitude it has an identical turn rate that is identical to the all of the late model Bf.109s. 

 

At low altitude it completely slams Bf.109 models in acceleration, climb, top speed, turn rate, roll rate, and energy retention.

 

Not only that but it makes low altitude speed planes like the Tempest Mk.V and Tempest II obsolete...the F2G literally does everything better than the Tempest II in a way that is impossible to counter outside of the F2G just deciding to fly in front of it's guns. Something that fills a similar niche like the Fw-190 D-9 just takes a massive loss as well.

 

You may have a preference for cannons, but .50 cals are widely recognized as being very strong armament in props while also being a lot more useful in most circumstances. It takes a lot more effort to out-run or out-distance .50 caliber tracer spray than Mg.151s or MK108s.

 

6 hours ago, Asghaad said:

also im kind of sick and tired of Ghidora spamming the forum constantly with the same thing over and over again just with the different plane in the headline, its constant unending whine of "this kills me plz nerf" that after 20-ish time you see it gets kinda old ...

 

Yes he needs to l2p. A broken clock is right once a day...and in this case there happens to be an element of truth to his complaining.

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1 hour ago, UnknownDistance@psn said:

 

They really are not even remotely accurate... especially for the argument you are trying to make. Thunderskills numbers are all over the place because they merge ground and air battles, and AI kills and player kills into one statistic. Just for reference...the P-38L-0 has 8.91 air kills per battle for the past month.

 

Anything that appears in Thunderskill's aggregate numbers has to be taken in context and with a huge amount of qualification.

 

 

Compared to what?

 

It climbs basically on par with all of the late Bf.109s, while being faster at basically every altitude below 6km. Even when it has lost 1/3rd of it's horsepower, it will catch a Bf.109 G-10. At altitude it has an identical turn rate that is identical to the all of the late model Bf.109s. 

 

At low altitude it completely slams Bf.109 models in acceleration, climb, top speed, turn rate, roll rate, and energy retention.

 

Not only that but it makes low altitude speed planes like the Tempest Mk.V and Tempest II obsolete...the F2G literally does everything better than the Tempest II in a way that is impossible to counter outside of the F2G just deciding to fly in front of it's guns. Something that fills a similar niche like the Fw-190 D-9 just takes a massive loss as well.

 

You may have a preference for cannons, but .50 cals are widely recognized as being very strong armament in props while also being a lot more useful in most circumstances. It takes a lot more effort to out-run or out-distance .50 caliber tracer spray than Mg.151s or MK108s.

 

 

Yes he needs to l2p. A broken clock is right once a day...and in this case there happens to be an element of truth to his complaining.

 

8,91 kills per battle? I was for quite some time in top 30 player kills per battle with player kills per battle between 2,55 and 2,75 (I'm a bit of a stat padder, not gonna lie :D). This just shows how much Thunderskill is worth, I doubt one can even realistically kill 9 bots and player per battle on average, there may be something absolutely broken, because many planes in Thunderskill have stats that are better than mine (that's not that much) or yours (which is quite an achievement) and I doubt Thunderskill gets stats only from top 5 WT Air RB "random match" players. 

Edited by Loofah
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3 hours ago, UnknownDistance@psn said:

AI kills and player kills into one statistic

so do the ingame player statcards

 

thing is its basically irrelevant because it does so for everyone so its level playing field allowing us to draw conclusions from the data.

 

3 hours ago, UnknownDistance@psn said:

the P-38L-0 has 8.91 air kills per battle for the past month.

with 198 battles on record, which is way too little to be statistically viable in the first place

 

 

look as i sayd i know TS cant be taken at face value, but neither it can be totally disregarded, you just have to read the data and analyze it in context

 

F2G isnt as bad of a plane to have just 1:1 k/d, thats being driven down by its abuse as ground attacker and suicide bomb the base and die SL grinder (which is why it has its ridiculous repair cost)

 

but i simply dont see it as some devil spawn obliterating everything ... yes you cant catch it if it decides to run ... thats not illegal now is it ? ... planes are allowed to have some outstanding feature to play with or is it suddenly forbidden ?

 

4 hours ago, UnknownDistance@psn said:

Compared to what?

Griffons, Bearcats ... you know comparing to the best not the most mediocre or even lower BR aircraft ...

 

but  as i sayd in the beginning im NOT saying it cant go up, just pointing out how ridiculously the guy is biased when he can shout such nonsense as :1:1 K/D would be enough to uptier any non american plane" ...

 

also seems to me that some planes are bit overtiered more than F2G being undertiered and considering 6.3 probably is gates of HELL of being constantly thrown against jets i personally would be much rather to lower BR of some 109s that are no longer wiping helpless US teams that cant climb left right and center as they are used to ... xD

 

4 hours ago, UnknownDistance@psn said:

You may have a preference for cannons, but .50 cals are widely recognized as being very strong armament in props while also being a lot more useful in most circumstances. It takes a lot more effort to out-run or out-distance .50 caliber tracer spray than Mg.151s or MK108s.

 

my favorite prop in the game is J2M5 with 30mm cannons :) one hit is all it takes

 

 

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42 minutes ago, Asghaad said:

also seems to me that some planes are bit overtiered more than F2G being undertiered and considering 6.3 probably is gates of HELL of being constantly thrown against jets i personally would be much rather to lower BR of some 109s that are no longer wiping helpless US teams that cant climb left right and center as they are used to ... xD

 

6.3 gets downtiered 4/5 games. Seems someone hasn't been playing the BR they're talking about. More BR compression is the last thing we need. F2G to 6.3, P-51H 6.7 (possibly), and the F7F should come down to 6.0 or 6.3.

 

Bf 109s shouldn't have their BRs lowered (except G-10 to 5.3 as it was originally). Consider the Bf 109 K-4 vs. any 4.7 in-game. It's already powerful when downtiered, there's no need to make 4.3 planes suffer vs a plane they can't even touch. Or consider the G-14, which is a balanced plane for its own BR. Or the 190 D-9 with good climbrate, good speed and excellent MER for 5.3. At 5.0 that thing would slaughter.

 

Since we are not going to get total BR decompression, the best case is uptiering the american planes that are capping germany right now.

Edited by BlackberryAvar
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30 minutes ago, BlackberryAvar said:

Seems someone hasn't been playing the BR they're talking about.

 

i sayd so in the first reply i did in this topic, sadly half of my posts here seems to have been nuked so ...

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If you're going to make authoritative statements about a plane / BR / balance, you should at least have played that plane or BR recently, or know the performance of said plane without a doubt.

 

Otherwise you're going to end up making hot takes.

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2 hours ago, Asghaad said:

with 198 battles on record, which is way too little to be statistically viable in the first place

 

 

look as i sayd i know TS cant be taken at face value, but neither it can be totally disregarded, you just have to read the data and analyze it in context

 

F2G isnt as bad of a plane to have just 1:1 k/d, thats being driven down by its abuse as ground attacker and suicide bomb the base and die SL grinder (which is why it has its ridiculous repair cost)

 

but i simply dont see it as some devil spawn obliterating everything ... yes you cant catch it if it decides to run ... thats not illegal now is it ? ... planes are allowed to have some outstanding feature to play with or is it suddenly forbidden ?


You are missing the point. The issue isn't that the F2G is fast. The issue is that the F2G is significantly better than 90% vehicles it faces. 

You claim that it doesn't turn that well? How well does an F2G turn compared to a Bf.109 K-4?
How well does it turn compare to planes that occupy the same niche? What can a Tempest II or La-9 do against an F2G when they share the exact same BR?

It takes the Bf.109 K-4 around 270 seconds to reach 6000m from the runway; in that same amount of time the F2G has climbed 5700m and has lost 1/3rd of it's engine power. Although it's lost 1/3rd of its engine power by 6000m, it's only 25 kph slower than the Bf.109 K-4. It's just straight up faster than either the Bf.109 G-10 or G-14. It's straight up 60kph faster on the deck. Not only that...it's more maneuverable as well.

The issue isn't that the plane has one outstanding feature; the issue is that the plane has one outstanding feature while still being superior in other categories as well.

2 hours ago, Asghaad said:

Griffons, Bearcats ... you know comparing to the best not the most mediocre or even lower BR aircraft ...

 

but  as i sayd in the beginning im NOT saying it cant go up, just pointing out how ridiculously the guy is biased when he can shout such nonsense as :1:1 K/D would be enough to uptier any non american plane" ...

 

also seems to me that some planes are bit overtiered more than F2G being undertiered and considering 6.3 probably is gates of HELL of being constantly thrown against jets i personally would be much rather to lower BR of some 109s that are no longer wiping helpless US teams that cant climb left right and center as they are used to ... xD

The Bearcat is significantly worse. It over heats so badly that its effective top speed is lower. It's turn rate is also significantly worse. The F2G literally runs circles around the Bearcat. Bearcat turns once and it's out of energy.

The Griffon Spitfires are significantly slower than the F2G. Even the 6.7BR Griffon cannot catch the F2G at 6000m. The speed and acceleration difference is much more pronounced on the deck.

That is just the physical differences and doesn't take into account how favorable the matchmaker is to US planes. Most F2G games are not up-tiers, and your most common allies have planes that are just more capable than what they face. Flying something like Bf.109 K-4 means that your most common opposition is predominantly fighter teams made of US/BR fighters vs predominantly bomber German teams.

There is no reason for the F2G to be 6.0 BR aside from premium payers being below average at the game.
 

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1 hour ago, UnknownDistance@psn said:

It takes the Bf.109 K-4 around 270 seconds to reach 6000m from the runway; in that same amount of time the F2G has climbed 5700m and has lost 1/3rd of it's engine power. Although it's lost 1/3rd of its engine power by 6000m, it's only 25 kph slower than the Bf.109 K-4.

so it IS worse climbing AND its slower than K-4 at altitude ? while being on par with maneuverability ... and the advantages flip when going lower

 

sounds pretty balanced to me, in fact it sounds like K-4 is the one that should go to the 6.0 if it matches the performance this well ...

 

1 hour ago, UnknownDistance@psn said:

The Bearcat is significantly worse. It over heats so badly that its effective top speed is lower. It's turn rate is also significantly worse. The F2G literally runs circles around the Bearcat. Bearcat turns once and it's out of energy.

its been years since i played my Bearcan, but back then it was one plane that had it all, almost double the climbrate of anything else and maneuverability of a zero, guess they have to change the FM somewhat because the only thing i remember that could defeat a Bearcat was either a jet or overheated engine ...

 

2 hours ago, UnknownDistance@psn said:

The Griffon Spitfires are significantly slower than the F2G

why are you so much fixated at straight line speed ? its only one parameter and not even the most important one as the lack of straightline speed can be compensated for with energy advantage

 

2 hours ago, UnknownDistance@psn said:

That is just the physical differences and doesn't take into account how favorable the matchmaker is to US planes. Most F2G games are not up-tiers, and your most common allies have planes that are just more capable than what they face. Flying something like Bf.109 K-4 means that your most common opposition is predominantly fighter teams made of US/BR fighters vs predominantly bomber German teams.

yes and THAT is an actual problem, not the F2G being undertiered but the core gameplay meta being broken by spam of premium bomber that tanks the gameplay for everything around it...

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16 minutes ago, Asghaad said:

so it IS worse climbing AND its slower than K-4 at altitude ? while being on par with maneuverability ... and the advantages flip when going lower

 

sounds pretty balanced to me, in fact it sounds like K-4 is the one that should go to the 6.0 if it matches the performance this well ...

 

300m of separation after 5 minutes of climbing compared to the best climbing German plane in the game is an extremely marginal advantage.

 

20 minutes ago, Asghaad said:

its been years since i played my Bearcan, but back then it was one plane that had it all, almost double the climbrate of anything else and maneuverability of a zero, guess they have to change the FM somewhat because the only thing i remember that could defeat a Bearcat was either a jet or overheated engine ...

 

The Bearcat is not good at all. The F2G does literally everything better at a lower battle rating.

 

22 minutes ago, Asghaad said:

why are you so much fixated at straight line speed ? its only one parameter and not even the most important one as the lack of straightline speed can be compensated for with energy advantage

 

Straight line speed is a form of holding energy and can be used to negate altitude advantage. The F2G can fight the highest Spitfire the same way that any plane normally fights a Spitfire.

 

26 minutes ago, Asghaad said:

yes and THAT is an actual problem, not the F2G being undertiered but the core gameplay meta being broken by spam of premium bomber that tanks the gameplay for everything around it...

 

That is part of the problem but doesn't change the fact that the F2G is under-tiered. According to the algorithm planes that fill the niche of low altitude speed fighters that don't turn that well are obsolete.

 

Both Tempest variations are worse in every way. The La-9 is worse in every way. That's not counting all of the 5.3 planes that it routinely faces.

 

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51 minutes ago, UnknownDistance@psn said:

300m of separation after 5 minutes of climbing compared to the best climbing German plane in the game is an extremely marginal advantage.

yet it is an advantage nonetheless, especially for a plane that sits at lower battlerating

 

55 minutes ago, UnknownDistance@psn said:

The Bearcat is not good at all. The F2G does literally everything better at a lower battle rating.

well when i flew it it was the undisputed best prop in the game ... 30+ m/s climbrate, better than Spitfire maneuverability ... but its been something like 4-5 years since i flew it last ... :happysnail:

 

58 minutes ago, UnknownDistance@psn said:

Straight line speed is a form of holding energy and can be used to negate altitude advantage. The F2G can fight the highest Spitfire the same way that any plane normally fights a Spitfire.

sure ... and im not hearing a single reason why it shouldnt be that way.

 

59 minutes ago, UnknownDistance@psn said:

doesn't change the fact that the F2G is under-tiered.

 

so far all you managed to convince me from "maybe it should maybe it shouldnt" to "there is no way that is the case" ...

 

1 hour ago, UnknownDistance@psn said:

Both Tempest variations are worse in every way. The La-9 is worse in every way.

that doesnt mean the F2G is undertiered, it just means that those three are overtiered ... there is kinda reason why noone was flying those planes even before things like F2G existing.

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2 hours ago, mAtt85 said:

I just had an F2G run down my J7W1 in a full dive...

uhh yeah, you challenged a plane that weighs TWICE AS MUCH with 1/3rd higher horsepower engine into a dive match ... of course he will catch you

 

next time aim to be above 5000m (ideally 8000-8500 ...) and keep it straight line and you will outrun him

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1 hour ago, Asghaad said:

uhh yeah, you challenged a plane that weighs TWICE AS MUCH with 1/3rd higher horsepower engine into a dive match ... of course he will catch you

 

next time aim to be above 5000m (ideally 8000-8500 ...) and keep it straight line and you will outrun him

 

You were there?! Why didn't you help?

 

 

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