Jump to content

Low cost improvements for the Italian Aviation and Helicopter Tech Trees.


Conte_Baracca
 Share

For all of the Tech Trees in War Thunder there are a plethora of vehicles, mechanics, decals, and various and sundry other things that can be added over time to the game.  However, it is fairly clear that, in general, certain trees get more attention than other trees.   The trees that see the most attention are the trees with the most players.  This is understandable as Gaijin has limited resources and the inherent right to make as much money as they are capable of.  Given that, I have created this thread in an effort to inform the community of the options available to the Italian Aviation and Helicopter Tech Trees that are relatively low cost.  There are several reasons for this.  First, it's to let the community know that even with limited resources and the desire to maximize profits there are options for the Italian Tree that can fit within Gaijin's economic model given the constraints.  Second, its to allow the community to let Gaijin know what of the "low-cost" options they would like the most.  Which options they are okay with.  And, which options they don't want at ll.  Third, it's a nice place to peruse to get exposed to the depth of options that truly are available to Gaijin.  Finally, it's a place that hopefully Gaijin can interact with the Italian Faction community.  

 

This thread will be broken down into the following sections which apply to both the Aviation and Helicopter air trees:

 

Italian Copy/Paste:

Spoiler

 

Add the two missing versions of the S.M.79 that were in the German TT. There are two versions of the S.M.79 that were in the German TT but were not ported over to the Italian TT when it was added to the game.  These vehicles were considered redundant at the time, but I would argue that one or both would make nice Premium Italian Bombers.  Something Italy does not have.  They are the S.M. 79 Serie 4 (which could also be foldered into the S.M.79 (e) folder in lieu of being premium) and the S.M.79 bis/N (which could also be foldered into the S.M.79 (l) folder in lieu of being premium).  I know there are plenty of S.M. 79s in the Italian Tree, but a couple of low end Premiums or a couple of Tech Tree vehicles in a folder to grind out and revisit the Sparviero would be fun without requiring a lot of effort.

 

 

 

Portuguese G.91 R/3

 

 

Add the Re 2005  MM.495.   It was tested with a VDM propeller and a German Built DB605.  These two changes gave it meaningfully better performance than the Re 2005 serie 0.  This would make a great Premium, Event, or even TT vehicle filling in a relatively thin part of the TT.  The DB 605 and VDM propeller as well as the Re 2005 are already modelled in game.  Should be relatively low cost. As per the following suggestion:

 

 

Add the Re 2001 G.   This is an Re 2001 that was designed to operate off of Italian Carriers.  It had the ability to carry a torpedo.  Italy needs an fighter aircraft that can carry a torpedo outside of the premium realm.  

 

Italy built one of the Naval Re.2001OR's (MM.9921) to carry a Torpedo known as the Re 2001 G.  Admittedly it did not complete torpedo testing, but clearly under the partially built rules (D'Oro, Radkampf 90, etc.) it would be qualified to carry the Torpedo in War Thunder.  And just look how sexy this paint job is:

996308036_re2001.thumb.jpg.58d03a268d076

 

Add the CANT Z.1007 Ter

This is very similar to the CANT Z.1007 bis we have in game.  So should be relatively low effort.  It has advancements in armor protection for the crew and better engines.  Both of which are legitimate improvements.

 

Add the BR-20 bis.

 

This aircraft has more powerful engines than the BR-20 we have and better defensive guns.  It also has more ordnance options than the Early S.M. 79s.   It requires modifications to existing models in game but that is relatively low cost.

 

Add the CR.42 DB.

This would be an excellent TT vehicle as it would be a bridge between the C.200 and the C.202.  Like every recommendation in this thread this vehicle leverages existing assets in game.

 

 Add more G.50 variants.

 

The G.50 is well represented in game.  Perhaps the ter would be a good addition for the TT, but this is more of a recommendation for potential Event, Premium, Battlepass vehicles.

 

 Add C.200 variants.

 

The Serie 1 would clearly be an Event, Premium, Battlepass type of vehicle.  There is also the possibility of adding the C.200 CB model as it could carry up to 320kg of bombs.  This would provide Tier I Italy with a credible fighter bomber.  Something the TT needs.

 

 Add the IMAM Ro.57 Bis to the TT.

The bis version of this aircraft is a Quadriarma without the cannons.  Still I think it would be a nice attacker to add to the TT with that excellent bombload and if the Breda SAFATs get the bug fixes they need it would be a very capable aircraft.

 

 Add Macchi C.205 variants:

 

These could go in the TT but the tree is pretty deep in those BRs, I view these as more of the Event, Premium, Battlepass types.

 

Add the G.59-A4:

This is a highly modified G.55 so would be relatively "low-cost"

 

59054600_g59_quad_cannonsSmall.png.3fa30

 

It is not the A4 model but an earlier one.  However as it is a matter of debate it clearly shows the equipping of four 20mm cannons.  Yes yes, these are mockups.  But this demonstrates that it was capable of carrying them.  Thus, under the partially built rule, they are legitimate.  If you disagree please leave a comment.

 

 

Add the M model of the Ba.88 Lynce, Ba-88M.

The aircraft has many differences from the Ba.88 model in game, but should still be relatively low cost as a lot of the assets are in the game already.  It would likely not be a "from scratch" project.

 

Add better A109 Variants.

Clearly this would be low cost due to the use of existing assets.  The Italian helicopter tree is quite thin.  The AW109 platform is uniquely Italian.  Using other models of it is an ideal solution to use low-cost methods to improve the tree while keeping it Unique to Italy.

 

 

 

Incorporate Ro.43 into the air Tech Tree and add the Ro.44

With the addition of the Ro.43 to ships for the naval scout plane mechanic these aircraft need to be added to the aviation TT.  They are poor aircraft for air and ground battles but they would be excellent for naval battles (without requiring cruisers that have them.)  

 

 

 

 

 

Foreign Copy/Paste.

Spoiler

Add Hungarian/Romanian Premiums to Italian TT as Premiums.   As stated by Gaijin Romanian and Hungarian vehicles will be added to the Italian TT to help fill it out.  To whit we have the IAR-81C and the Bf109G-2 Hungary as examples.  There are two Hungarian/Romanian Premium HE 112s in the German TT, the He 112 B-1/U2 and the He 112 B-2/U2.  It would be nice to see one or both in the Italian TT as Premium/Event/Battlepass vehicles.

 

Add the following USA aircraft as Premiums:

 

 

These should only be done as Event/Premium/Battlepass vehicles.

 

What would an air tree be without a P-47?  I mean...literally everyone else has one.  Wel maybe not LITERALLY.

  This should only be done as a Premium, but why not, everyone else has one.

 

 

The T-33 is a modified F-80.  Personally I want the G.82 more, but regardless this could be added and would make a great 7.0 Jet for Italy.

 

 

THAT PAINT JOB

 

Add the following German aircraft as Premiums:

As per the following suggestions:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

These vehicles should only be done as Event/Premium/Battlepass vehicles.  They also really should be done in Italian Camouflage/Skins.

 

A nice way to do an event or squadron high level jet for Italy would be:

 

 

 

 

Add the DeHaviland Venom as a Premium.

 

 

Add a Bristol as an Event or BP vehicle:

 

Martin anyone:

 

And we need more low level torpedo planes:

 

France had some offerings as well:

 

 

 

 

Improvements to existing Aircraft:

Spoiler

Correct ordnance loadouts for G.91 R/1 and G.91 YS.   Note the following bug reports:  

 

Add ordnance options for the A109EOA-2 .  The helicopter could carry the larger 19 cell FFAR pods.  This would give it much better rocket and rocket and gun loadouts making it more equal to its contemporaries in War Thunder.  Also these FFAR pods are on many, many helicopters and aircraft in game.  


Add the Sispre C-7 to the CL-13 Mk.4

The CL-13 in the Italian Tree is actually a unique version of the Sabre.  It is basically an E model (Engine of the A model, WIngs and Flying Tail of the F model)  Which nobody else has.  I actually like the Italian Sabre and don't at all think it is just a copy paste.  However, I think adding Italy's first guided air to air missile to it would be a really nice touch to make it TRULY unique.  I am of course talking about:  

 

I believe this is "low-cost" because it uses infrared seeking (no new mechanics) and is much simpler than modelling a whole new vehicle.  I also think there are big benefits here as it is Italy's first indigenous AAM and it would make the plane more competitive without power creep.  It would also potentially give Italy a 9.0 aircraft option which it doesn't have.  

 

Add bombs to the CR.32 quater.

The CR. 32 quater Africa Settentrionale (North Africa) could carry bombs.  It would not even require new bombs as it's the standard Italian 50kg bombs.  Adding this capability to the Quater in game would give Italy a Reserve fighter bomber, something most other nations have.

 

952358223_CR32quaterbombs1.thumb.png.3a1

 

448589473_CR32quaterbombs2.thumb.png.b43

 

A nice little addition that brings the tree in line with the big three nations.

 

Add the 160kg CS bomb to the aircraft that could carry it.

Not only would this give Italy a unique capability in Naval.  These bombs would increase the efficacy of the aircraft in Air and Ground battles as well, perhaps even significantly.

 

Also, make sure Nuclear strike aircraft are actually Italian.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Conte_Baracca
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Upvote 6
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Conte_Baracca said:

Italian Copy/Paste:

Yes please:good:

 

18 minutes ago, Conte_Baracca said:

Foreign Copy/Paste

No.

 

19 minutes ago, Conte_Baracca said:

Improvements to existing Aircraft:

The more accurate planes will be, the better:good:

  • Upvote 4
medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Toki_Tsu_Kaze said:

@Conte_Baracca.50 cals are finally fully fixed(both HE shells and AP shells) on dev server, so we can check that out on the list if the fix still exist when the update goes live

Velocity fixed??????

 

  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Toki_Tsu_Kaze said:

Taking the penetration dropoff values the dev server shows in the stat card of each bullet, they have the same values as on the MAS-561 PT boat, so yeah, they are fixed

@angelomorteNow we have achieved true power

When the patch goes live and it is still there remind me and I will pull from thread.

 

  • Like 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Toki_Tsu_Kaze said:

Taking the penetration dropoff values the dev server shows in the stat card of each bullet, they have the same values as on the MAS-561 PT boat, so yeah, they are fixed

@angelomorteNow we have achieved true power

I mean we still have the heit that needs to be added and the belt comp of so many planes turrets needs adjusted. The pen values are nice but kinda irrelevant for the he shells which are basically impact. It will be nice for the incendiary and tracers tho! Hope we get motobomb fff soon

Edited by angelomorte
medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, angelomorte said:

I mean we still have the heit that needs to be added and the belt comp of so many planes turrets needs adjusted. The pen values are nice but kinda irrelevant for the he shells which are basically impact. It will be nice for the incendiary and tracers tho! Hope we get motobomb fff soon

With the fixed ballistics of the API ammo, we will have similar incendiary potential as the american late war belts and the russian berezin belts

 

Well, we already have said potential, but due to the wrong ballistics, you needed to get extremely close to the enemy to land your shot were you wanted them to land and create a fire, now with the HE fix we are using the Bredas as cannons that work vs fighters very effectively, but they dont have the damage to down a bomber unless aiming to critical parts, but with this fix to the API, we can do both things now, the air target belt will be useful, and the stealth belt will become even more powerful, or just load tracer belt and go play like an american plane

 

Also, trying to penetrate the roof of armored cars will become a bit more easier to do if you ever need to do it

  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Clarification on the planes ammo, according to the datamine, lots(if not all) of aircraft guns will now use the DeMarre formula, thats why Bredas got finally fixed, along with multiple penetration buffs/fix to other guns(american plane .50cals  will have the same pen as the .50cals of tanks for example, when currently they have less pen) and only two nerfs(MK103 ammo and BK3.7 ammo got nerfed in pen)

The most important buff is 20mm guns, all of them got buffed in penetration(MG151 pens 26mm now, AN/M2 and hispano pen 38mm, T99mod2 and Ho-4 pen 28mm, ShVak pen 27mm)

 

So I present the CAS cannon Re2005 xD

1689238598_Capturadepantalla(749).png.6b

 

At 300-400mts, you pen 21-23mm of armor, so Panzer IV, T-34, M4A1 and M4A2, ARL-44, Churchill, Cromwell, Comet, StuG, Semovente, and every other tank with less roof armor pretty easily, and since Re2005

 

You want HE ammo on your MG151 you say?, its heresy to not have HE loaded on the MG151?

Then: 1872720587_Capturadepantalla(751).png.d1

Simply load universal on your MG151, you will have half of AP ammo(IT ammo pens the same as the AP ammo) and half HE ammo, while also having the Bredas with API and HE to back you up at destroying planes even faster

medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Toki_Tsu_Kaze said:

Clarification on the planes ammo, according to the datamine, lots(if not all) of aircraft guns will now use the DeMarre formula, thats why Bredas got finally fixed, along with multiple penetration buffs/fix to other guns(american plane .50cals  will have the same pen as the .50cals of tanks for example, when currently they have less pen) and only two nerfs(MK103 ammo and BK3.7 ammo got nerfed in pen)

The most important buff is 20mm guns, all of them got buffed in penetration(MG151 pens 26mm now, AN/M2 and hispano pen 38mm, T99mod2 and Ho-4 pen 28mm, ShVak pen 27mm)

 

So I present the CAS cannon Re2005 xD

1689238598_Capturadepantalla(749).png.6b

 

At 300-400mts, you pen 21-23mm of armor, so Panzer IV, T-34, M4A1 and M4A2, ARL-44, Churchill, Cromwell, Comet, StuG, Semovente, and every other tank with less roof armor pretty easily, and since Re2005

 

You want HE ammo on your MG151 you say?, its heresy to not have HE loaded on the MG151?

Then:  1872720587_Capturadepantalla(751).png.d1

Simply load universal on your MG151, you will have half of AP ammo(IT ammo pens the same as the AP ammo) and half HE ammo, while also having the Bredas with API and HE to back you up at destroying planes even faster

yeah but keep air targets on breda. they reach out to 3km with he so tracers are useful for sniping purposes

  • Like 1
medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, angelomorte said:

air targets on breda

well, now that the APIT is fixed, air targets is viable once again since the ballistic of the APIT will be similar to that of the HE and the API, so I can agree with you

 

So you can have 3 gameplay options for the breda

 

stealth: rely on HE power to rip of wings and other parts of the plane

tracers: remember the american laser of freedom that ignites fuel tanks, now you can have it nose mounted and in planes that dont become sitting ducks below 450kmh

air targets: do both at same time, but not as eficiently, although being inclined more to the set things on fire side rather than destroying things

 

Not to tell you you are in some way wrong, but in ground battles, the benefit of not having tracers on stealth is very big in taking down enemy planes so the average ground battle pilot cant react until is too late, and you can still snipe bigger planes like a Pe-8 due to how massive they are

 

In the end, I think I know very well the ballistic of the Breda due to how much I spam the C205 serie 1 that I dont need the tracers most of the time to make them work, and since I play my planes mainly in ground to complete my daily battlepass tasks, they give me better results, while in air, having the distance indicator makes it easy to calculate the lead

medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Toki_Tsu_Kaze said:

well, now that the APIT is fixed, air targets is viable once again since the ballistic of the APIT will be similar to that of the HE and the API, so I can agree with you

 

So you can have 3 gameplay options for the breda

 

stealth: rely on HE power to rip of wings and other parts of the plane

tracers: remember the american laser of freedom that ignites fuel tanks, now you can have it nose mounted and in planes that dont become sitting ducks below 450kmh

air targets: do both at same time, but not as eficiently, although being inclined more to the set things on fire side rather than destroying things

 

Not to tell you you are in some way wrong, but in ground battles, the benefit of not having tracers on stealth is very big in taking down enemy planes so the average ground battle pilot cant react until is too late, and you can still snipe bigger planes like a Pe-8 due to how massive they are

 

In the end, I think I know very well the ballistic of the Breda due to how much I spam the C205 serie 1 that I dont need the tracers most of the time to make them work, and since I play my planes mainly in ground to complete my daily battlepass tasks, they give me better results, while in air, having the distance indicator makes it easy to calculate the lead

Sniping at 3km I need tracers :lol2:

medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Toki_Tsu_Kaze said:

He is starting to believe xD(I guess those are just sim battles things)

In sim I'd like to use the stealth ofc but the velocity changes made it impossible to get a feel at longer ranges. I haven't really flown sim a ton since the fix I've been so busy between work, uni, and dating :lol2:. The heit (needs to be added) and he need to be put in a belt with half and half called high explosive or something. Nailing a bomber at 3km in sim with the stealth rounds does feel nice tho especially since they use xxx third person gunner view. When you nail a fighter with a burst of that he tho it does wonders.

 

medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
Quote

Aircraft and helicopter model, damage model, characteristic and weaponry changes

Weaponry

  • AP, AP-I, APT-I rounds for machine guns and cannons of calibres over 12.7mm have been transferred to the Jacob de Marre formula for armour penetration

It was change to all aircraft weapons. pretty much all but MK103 and MK108 received noticeably buff

 

Idk if it also affects the ballistic arc but probably yes(??? from the looks on the devserver, the HE and AP has pretty similar  ballistic arc now instead of having two totally different ballistic arcs

medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On a side note, G55 serie 1, Re2005, G55S and G56 can do CAS cannon now, we have the mid tier A-10 with that APHE spam potential, the only thing that can survive are heavies with enough roof armor(IS series and Tigers, Jumbos and Churchills dont have enough roof armor).

And you have the Bredas with Air Targets to give you tracers to aim the 20mms and to kill planes

 

SM91, SM92 and C.205N could also do CAS cannon, but they dont have a good enough elevator to pull from a dive so it will be a bit hard to do

G55 sotto could also too, but since it has only one 20mm cannon instead of three, the damage would not be enough to kill enemy tanks in one  or two dives

 

Seems like and overall improvement in CAS potential for Italy, what do you guys think?

Captura de pantalla (762).png

Captura de pantalla (763).png

Captura de pantalla (764).png

  • Like 1
medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Draco_Argentum said:

Thats a nice buff for my favourite minty fresh fighter.

I have yet to try the buffed Hispanos too and see how their potential A-10 wannabes perform(Wyvern, Beaufighter, Typhoon, Tempest and Firefly will be the planes with enough guns and elevator authority to do the perfect dives to kill tanks in one or two passes, Spitfires have horrible gun convergence for this purpose so they are a no, and Mosquito has bad elevator due to the instructor limiting your movement)

 

But from the way I see it how they perform in post pen damage

Italians with MG151 have just enough penetration to go through all but german and russian heavies, and will nuke the enemy tank on succesful penetration of a barrage of APHE

Brits with Hispanos will have way too much penetration, but still not enough penetration to go through german and russian heavies armor, and since they are solid AP instead of APHE, you will need to be more accurate to get the kill quickly

 

Also funny thing, germany doesnt benefit as much as Italy from the pen buff of the MG151, since they either have bad elevator to pull from a dive(Fw190, Me410, Bf110, Do335) or they have only one cannon, so they wont do enough damage to justify removing your mineshells(Bf109, and they also dont have good backup MG compared to the Breda)

medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...