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F104-S 'ASA' and its missing capabilities. (Wrong radar, loadouts and more)


Nicholas_Concu
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Hello, once again making a post on the ASA, this time regarding its radar and its missing capabilities, and the general loadouts of the ASA not being properlly represented on the dev server. Hopefully this can also clear up some things and be properlly adressed by the time the update officially drops. It's quite confusing as to why these are even problems to begin with, yes everything on the devserver is subject to change, but this should be simple stuff that i shouldn't make a post for. Hopefully my research wont be in vain. 

Spoiler

Screenshot_2022-03-11-15-43-20-835_com.p

Lets start with some simple stuff shall we? 
Could the ASA use AIM-9L and ASPIDE?
Yes it could, and its been heavily documented as such, currently on the devserver you cannot bring AIM-9L and ASPIDE together which is quite weird. In real life the F104S ASA could bring a total mix of x2 AIM-9L and x2 ASPIDE. There is some talk of it being able to carry x4 AIM-9L and x2 ASPIDE (the extra 2 would be mounted unto the bottom pylons) but it seems like that configuration was never done due to it being deemed too dangerous. For now its best we stay as historical as possibile. On the bottom pylons, at least according to the manual it could mount AIM-9B, and if Gaijin wanted to they could switch it to AIM-9J. So its actual full possibile interceptor loadout (with AIM-9L+ASPIDE) should be this. 
x2 AIM9L + x2 ASPIDE + x2 AIM9B (or J depending on Gaijin)
 

Spoiler

asa.png?width=642&height=670 16470822735794995951747346565374.jpg 176617_4662501608165_1974414779_o.png?wi
IMG_8051.jpg?width=892&height=669

Now lets move unto some of the more complicated stuff.
Did the ASA have a new radar and did it have the capability of Lock/shoot down?
Yes and yes, among the changes of the ASA from the base S variant, a new more advanced radar was implemented as seen in the photo's below. Currently on the devserver, it seems like Gaijin has copied the previous radar present on the S, this needs to change. In addition, something very important to the ASA was the ability to do Lock/shoot down, something again currently missing from the ASA on the devserver. Its good to note for people who may also be confused, the M61 Vulcan cannot be paired up with the ASPIDE, that is historical, as you can also see the instruments/avionics for the ability to use the ASPIDE would lead to no space for the cannon. That said, the 20mm could obviously be fitted with the AIM-9L only, so that also should be represented on the ASA in game.

Spoiler

IMG_8050.jpg?width=1096&height=669 IMG_8054.jpg?width=237&height=670

Could the ASA use the AN/ANLQ 70 and AN/ANLQ 73?
Yes it could, special thanks to Blue Beta for bringing it up, this doesnt need to be talked about too much as its well documented, again needs to be represented on the aircraft in game.

Spoiler

1647071587222336851354359960906.png?widt 16470716110895896313141261603094.png?wid 16470716244061174817282993783193.png?wid 16470715622164438455079740780117.png?wid 20220313_091939.jpg?width=677&height=670

 

Edited by Nicholas_Concu
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+1, this together with the flares would actually make the ASA rather strong, don't want to say that it would even be competitive, but it sure would make it worthy of being the 11.0 Italian top jet

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19 minutes ago, raptor2-40delta@psn said:

+1 and honestly can Gaijin consider this and the CM post without a proper bug report? I mean all the info are here, how is a bug report necessary?

 

So you go to all this effort but can't be bothered to post in the dev server section?

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1 hour ago, Nicholas_Concu said:

Could the ASA use the ALQ 40?

I'd like to point out just this little typo, it's called ALQ/70. The AN/ALE 40 is the chaff/flare dispenser. Apart from that really good job as always +1 from me :good:

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+1 from me. Don't really understand how can gaijin still miss pieces of the only vehicle (that is even a copy paste) that Italy is receiving this patch. It is now clear they don't really care in adding some more unique models to the italian TTs, but at least model correctly those copy pastes you add. I hope this useful suggestion gets considered by the developers, at least we will get something this patch and not zero. Would be great to get flares too, in its current condition at 11.0 it would be just a useless flying coffin. 

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6 minutes ago, TheS1up said:

I'd like to point out just this little typo, it's called ALQ/70. The AN/ALE 40 is the chaff/flare dispenser. Apart from that really good job as always +1 from me :good:

Oh whoops, yeah thanks for pointing it out i've just fixed it. 
Also thanks a lot, i try my best :good:

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2 hours ago, Nicholas_Concu said:

x2 AIM9L + x2 ASPIDE + x2 AIM9B (or J depending on Gaijin)

There is something beautiful about this....

 

The bottom line is, due to the limited supersonic aircraft available to Italy the ones they do have need to have their fullest capability possible in the game.

Edited by Conte_Baracca
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@Nicholas_ConcuI support 100% your suggestion and thx to @BlueBeta for the info about the ALQ 70:good:

 

4 hours ago, Nicholas_Concu said:

On the bottom pylons, at least according to the manual it could mount AIM-9B, and if Gaijin wanted to they could switch it to AIM-9J. So its actual full possibile interceptor loadout (with AIM-9L+ASPIDE) should be this. 
x2 AIM9L + x2 ASPIDE + x2 AIM9B (or J depending on Gaijin)

The F104S and the F104S-ASA have the same Pylons under the belly - statet in the manuals "bl 22", so it should be able to carry "J", otherwise it has no sense to put it at Br 11.0. It would be not competitive at all.

Edited by S__bastienZ88
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3 hours ago, raptor2-40delta@psn said:

+1 and honestly can Gaijin consider this and the CM post without a proper bug report? I mean all the info are here, how is a bug report necessary?

 

Bug reports are necessary for proper traceability and reporting. If all the info is present for whats required for a bug report, then it will be very easy for it to be properly reported, as it should be rather than a discussion topic. When a report is made, we can forward that for review. 

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1 hour ago, Smin1080p said:

 

Bug reports are necessary for proper traceability and reporting. If all the info is present for whats required for a bug report, then it will be very easy for it to be properly reported, as it should be rather than a discussion topic. When a report is made, we can forward that for review. 

I understand.. and I managed to do the bug report for the ASA regarding the chaff/flares launcher so hopefully something can be done.. BlueBeta also mentioned another type of CM that the ASA had, I forgot to put it in my report but I hope if it passes it will be considered anyway 

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Someone on the major update thread mentioned that the ASA could carry the Vulcan and the radar missile equipment if the mission called for it.  Is this true?  I don't wanna get my hopes up.

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3 hours ago, The_29er said:

Someone on the major update thread mentioned that the ASA could carry the Vulcan and the radar missile equipment if the mission called for it.  Is this true?  I don't wanna get my hopes up.

It’s not true. 

20 hours ago, Nicholas_Concu said:

Its good to note for people who may also be confused, the M61 Vulcan cannot be paired up with the ASPIDE, that is historical, as you can also see the instruments/avionics for the ability to use the ASPIDE would lead to no space for the cannon. That said, the 20mm could obviously be fitted with the AIM-9L only, so that also should be represented on the ASA in game.

 

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I made 2 reports (still under premoderation):

1.) Cannon + AIM-9L

2.) Look-down for radar

Feel free to add info once they're opened.

Though I think looking how you can't even use Zuni + cannon or Bombs + cannon and radar values being copypasted from F-104S radar, ASA on dev-server is very very WIP.

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1 hour ago, _Condottiero_ said:

I made 2 reports (still under premoderation):

1.) Cannon + AIM-9L

2.) Look-down for radar

Feel free to add info once they're opened.

Though I think looking how you can't even use Zuni + cannon or Bombs + cannon and radar values being copypasted from F-104S radar, ASA on dev-server is very very WIP.

20220313_091939.jpg

 

Did you report this as well? It is missing the RWR sensors of the AN/ALQ-73 ECM? And the  AN/ANLQ 70

 

1 hour ago, _Condottiero_ said:

Look-down for radar

PD radar, Lock down and shoot down radar?


 

Spoiler

20220313_103225.jpg

asa2.PNG asa.PNG

 

Which loadout did you bug report?

 

4×Aim9L + Vulcan 20mm

 

2×Aim9L, 2×Aspide-A1 without Vulcan 20mm + 2×Aim9b(J)? under the belly 

 

2×Aim9L, 2×Sparrow 7E without Vulcan 20mm + 2×Aim9b(J)? under the belly 

 

 

4×Aim9L, 2×Aim9b(J)? + Vulcan 20mm

Edited by S__bastienZ88
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