Jump to content

Pakistani Subline for Chinese Tree 3.0


hienapunk
 Share

Pakistani Subtree Questions  

21 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Pakistan be a Subtree of China?

    • Yes!
      18
    • Naw...
      3
    • It should be in a commonwealth tree.
      0
  2. 2. Should the m24 be moved to this line and replaced in the ROC line with m24a1, a unique Taiwanese Chaffee?

    • Yes!
      16
    • Naww...
      5
  3. 3. Should the VT4 be in Chinese or Pakistani colors?

    • Chinese
      4
    • Pakistani
      3
    • Some way to chose between both.
      14


Note to mods: Sorry if there's a whole mess of these. The formatting monkey was really really screwing with this thing. First it was hidden foldering which took a while to iron out, then it was a "file too large" error that plagued me for a while too. I got around these by copy-pasting the old one as "text only" and by submitting in a smaller size and editing the stuff back in. In any case, it seems that every time I submitted and got the error message another glitched post went up. Please just disregard those. Thank you for your work and sorry for any inconvenience.

 

Pakistan is perhaps China's closest ally in the last 30 years. Yes, there is an argument for North Korea as well, but the Koreas have enough interesting stuff to fill out their own Israel-style half tree. 

 

Anyway, I have a few projects in mind, but this is my first topic post, so I'm trying to bite off something relatively small (edit: 6 hours later let me tell you this wasn't a small bite) (another edit: here on my second try its been like 10 hours) (edit: a series of formatting catastrophes later and I'm pulling my teeth out).

 

Pakistan is China's one true friend in polite society, providing it with economic access to west Asia, naval access to the Indian ocean, and a proxy to deal with separatist threats real and imagined. In turn, Pakistan gets an economic lifeline and a guarantor of protection from their hated rival, the Indians, who have consistently triumphed in the wars between them. Furthermore, there has been a noticeably shift in the origin of Pakistani equipment away from ex-British and American into Chinese, especially since the 1980s. Its a precedent that already exists in the game, with the A5C premium in the air tree.

 

Anyway, enough proposition, here's the tanks.

 

Vickers Medium Mark 1A (1.0)

Spoiler

1920px-Vickers_Medium_Mk.1.jpg

 

The first unit of those that would become the Pakistani army to receive tanks was the 13th Duke of Connacht's Own Lancers, who received a handful of Mark 1 medium tanks and a dozen or so Crossley armoured cars in 1940. Now, if that sounds utterly hopeless, the situation wasn't as bad as it seems. They were merely being bulked up to better bully the native tribesmen across the border on the Northwest Frontier of the Raj in the absence of units being pulled away to the war in Europe. In any case, this state of affairs was brief, and within less than a year the unit had been dismounted and sent to Syria and later north Africa. Less than a decade later they would be the 13th Lancers of the Pakistani Army.

 

In any case its a good excuse to put this historically important tank into the game (first 3 man turret and coax mg!). The gun isn't great by any means and the armor is woeful even at this level, but it is the first Pakistani tank.

 

Dimensions    5.33×2.78×2.82 m (17ft6 x9ft1 x 9ft3)
Total weight, battle ready    11.7 long tons
Crew    5
Propulsion    Armstrong Siddeley V-8, 90bhp@3500 rpm
Speed    15 mph (24 km/h)
Range    120 mi (190 km)
Armament    QF 3 pdr (47 mm/1.85 in)
3 x 0.303 Vickers machine guns (7.7 mm)
Armor    8mm

 

M7 Priest (2.3)

Spoiler

M7 Priest - Wikipedia

  

 

This is a fairly uninteresting copy paste, but it fills a large gap in this line, and everyone loves derp guns, anyway. Also, it was used by both Pakistan and the ROC.

 

The m7 Priest was made as a way to fit the 105mm gun into the m3/m4 chassis, before the m4 105 had been thought up. The first examples were ready by February 1942, and the sherman 105 would not exist until 1944. Nonetheless, like with all Shermans, the chassis was tall, causing many issues (although making the ride quite comfy). This had the additional effect of making the open topped vehicle even more vulnerable than most others. The vehicle was named "Priest," inspired by the mg tower on the right of the vehicle, and its obvious resemblance to a pulpit.

 

And yes, this vehicle should also go to the Americans, the French, and to the British in the form of the Sexton.

 

2.3 might be a bit low for the thing, but I think its fair, as the top is very open, and this thing will be quite vulnerable to air attack.

 

M7 Priest specifications
Dimensions (L-w-h)    14.3x 7.5x 8.8 ft (4.4x 2.3x 2.7 m)
Total weight, battle ready    25.3 tons (50,600 lbs)
Crew    4 (driver, commander, gunner, loader)
Propulsion    Continental Radial R975 C1
Suspension    Vertical Volute Springs
Speed    24 mph (39 km/h) road 15 mph (24 km/h) off-road
Range    120 mi (193 km)
Armament    4.1 in (105 mm) M2A1 howitzer Cal.50 (12.7 mm) M2 HMG
Armor    From 0.5 to 1.5 (final drive assembly 4.25) in (12 to 38 mm)

 

Churchill M. V (3.7)

Spoiler

Churchill (MK. V) with no fenders looks mean as hell : r/TankPorn

 

There is evidence several units of what would become the Pakistani army (again 13th Lancers included) were supplied with M3A3 Stuart and some variety of Churchill tank sometime in 1945. I can't find any particular information on my reference unit (the 13th) beyond just Churchills, but I do know other units of the Indian army were receiving Churchills M. V and M. VI. The M. V seems to come up more often in the literature, and thus I would take it as the vehicle provided. In any case, it seems the more logical choice, as though both models are fairly rare, the M. V was used in Italy alongside troops of the British Indian Army that would be transferred east, while the the M. VI was only used in northwest Europe. Also, I feel the 95mm howitzer would be more useful fight the Japanese in the tight confines of the jungle, especially as anti-armor performance is no concern here.

 

Further, this gives us a heavy for the Chinese tree, giving us a bit more variety. Its also a unique version of Churchill not yet in game.

 

Stats
Production: 241
Hull Length: 24ft 5in
Hull Width: 9ft
Height: 10ft 8n
Crew: 5 (commander, gunner, loader, driver, co-driver/ hull gunner)
Weight: 87,360lb
Engine: 350hp Bedford twin-six
Max Road Speed: 15.5mph
Max Cross-county Speed: 8mph
Road Range: 90 miles radius
Armament: 95mm howitzer and 7.92mm Besa machine gun in turret, 7.92mm Besa machine gun in hull front

Armour: 16-102mm

 

M4A1E2(76) (4.7)

Spoiler

Tipu7 sur Twitter : "Pakistan Army M4 A1 Sherman Tank which was widely used  during 1965 war. This very tank, weighing 34.5 Ton and equipped with 76mm  Main Gun, was used by

 

Pakistan received a good deal of American equipment in the 1950s, 250 Chaffees, several dozen M36B1, and about 500 Sherman tanks all with 76mm guns. This might seem an odd purchase in light of the time period, but the principal tank of the Indians in the early 50s were ex-brit Sherman M.III with 75mm. They went hand in hand with the Pattons through the ups and downs of the 1965 war, where they were superior to the Indian Shermans and Stuarts but inferior to the Centurions. They played a role in the 71 war, at which point they were badly outmatched by Indian t55 and thus supplanted by Type59. Interestingly, unlike other late users of the Sherman, the Pakistanis seem not to have had any interest in an upgrade program.

 

Dimensions (L-W-H)    6.15m x 2.42m x 2.24m
(20’1″ x 7’9″ x 7’3″ ft.in)
Total weight, battle ready:    35 Tons (26000 ibs)
Crew :    4 (2 Drivers/gunners, Commander, loader)
Propulsion:    Continental R-975 Radial Engine
Suspensions:    Horizontal Volute Springs Suspensions (HVSS)
Top Speed    40-45 kph (25-27 mph) M51/M50
Range (road)/Fuel consumption    400 km (250 mi) for 380L – 50L/100
Armament (see notes)    Main: 76 mm (4in) Tank Gun M1
Sec: 1 x .50 Cal (12.7 mm) Browning M2HB Heavy Machine Gun, 2 x .30 Cal (7.62mm) Machine Guns.
Armour    Hull nose and turret 70, sides 40, bottom 15, rooftop 15 mm

 

Talha Al-Hamza (5.3)

Spoiler

 Inside Pakistan's homemade armored vehicles - Defence View

 

Deteriorating relations with the Americans resulted in the Pakistanis being unable to acquire more M113 APCs. Being that they much liked the things, this was an issue. As such, they contracted the firm Heavy Industries Taxila to produce an uparmored copy, the Talha. At some point a Chinese-made WAT314T turret with 7.62mm coax was installed, with plans to create an ifv. I cant find any information on the increase in armor, but I assume it isn't that substantial, as the vehicle remains amphibious.

 

In game, this would be an odd little thing, probably the earliest of IFVs, along with the shutzenpanzer when it gets added. I assume the autocannon would be misleadingly effective, as it dates from the end of the cold war, though the vehicle is held back by a relative lack of mobility and a high profile. Overall, I'd feel comfortably with it in the earlier end of that strange fringe ww2 cold war space between 5.0 and 7.0.

 

Country of origin    Pakistan
Entered service    ?
Crew    2 men
Personnel    10 men
Dimensions and weight
Weight    12.5 t
Length    5.55 m
Width    2.54 m
Height    ?
Armament
Machine guns    25mm autocannon, 7.62 coax mg
Mobility
Engine    Detroit Diesel 6V35T or UTD-20 diesel
Engine power    275 / 330 hp
Maximum road speed    70 km/h
Amphibious speed on water    5 km/h
Range    428 km
Maneuverability
Gradient    60%
Side slope    30%
Vertical step    0.6 m
Trench    1.7 m
Fording    Amphibious

 

Talha Battar (6.3)

Spoiler

Military Thoughts: 106mm.

 

The Talha returns.

 

This is exactly what it seems. An uparmored m113 with two American made m40 recoilless guns.

 

This would provide a decent td in the tier 4/5 area. Vehicles such as the type 60 and the ontos have shown these guns to be effective. Nonetheless, I'd drop this vehicle down to 6.3 or even 6.0 as a result of its high profile.

 

Specifications
Dimensions    5.55 x 2.54 x 2.6 m
Total weight, battle ready    10.6 cb, 12.5 tons combat ready
Crew    15 (driver, cdr, 13 troop)
Propulsion    272/330 hp Detroit Diesel/KMDB UTD-20
Suspension    5 torsion bars, 4 hydraulic dampers
Speed (road)    40 km/h flat
Range    320 miles, 510 km
Armament   2 106mm M40 recoilless rifles 1(?) .50 cal spotting rifle
Armor    STANAG 3 Aluminium (5083 series)

 

M47 (7.3)

Spoiler

Pakistan M47 Patton Tank | M47 Patton Tank, an old Pakistani… | Flickr

 

Now the Pakistani Patton doesn't have a great reputation, largely because of one 12 hour period in 1965 at Khen Karan, or Patton's Village, in which 94 M47 and M48a1 were knocked out by Indian Centurions after bumbling into a crossfire and continuing to press on even in the face of slaughter at the urging of the generals.

 

Yes, the battle of Asal Uttar was perhaps the blackest day in the history of the Pakistani army, but judging the Patton in Pakistani service by Asal Uttar and Phillora isn't entirely fair. Firstly. Centurians only knocked out less than a third the lost Pattons, the bulk were knocked out by hidden recoilless guns, and about a third were abandoned intact due to supply issues.

 

In fact, the m47 had its own moment in the sun, destroying a comparable number of Centurions and Shermans at Chawinda. Indeed, this day is celebrated in Pakistan as a second independence day. Accurate accounts of the battles are difficult to find as a result of very slanted accounts from both sides, but it actually seems the Pattons gave as good as they got in the 65 war.

 

Dimensions (L-W-H)    27’9″ (20’7″ without gun) x 11’5″ x 9’7″ ft.in
(8.5m (6.3m) x 3.51m x 2.95m)
Total weight, battle ready    48.5 tons (96 000 lbs)
Crew    5 (Commander, Driver, Assistant driver, Loader, Gunner)
Propulsion    Continental AVDS-1790-5A V12, AC Twin-turbo gas. 810 hp.
Transmission    General Motors CD-850-3, 2-Fw/1-Rv speed GB
Maximum speed    30 mph (48 km/h) on road
Suspensions    Torsion bars
Range (Fuel)    80 miles/130 km (878 Liters/ 232 US Gal.)
Armament    Main: 90 mm (3.5 in) gun M3A1, 70 rounds
Sec: 1 cal.50 M2 (12.7 mm)+ 2 cal.30 (7.62 mm) Browning M1919A4
Armor    Max: Nose glacis 102 mm (4 in)

 

Talha Mouz (8.7) 

Spoiler

HIT M113P Talha (1998)

 

Another Talha. I hope you like these things, cuz they just keep coming.

 

This is the air defense version of our little thing. In 1998 the Pakistani defense industry developed a copy of the Sa-7 MAPDAD missile, again via the Chinese copy. The ANZA was developed to give the Pakistanis a way to acquire MANPADS without having to rely on the Americans on account of their love-hate relationship. Now, many MANPADS are capable only of downing helicopters and slow moving transport aircraft. The ANZA has proven its capability, however, downing a MiG-21 and a MiG-27, among other less impressive bounty, during the Kargil Crisis of 1998.

 

Information on the transporter is more difficult to find. Particularly on ammo capacity. I'd imagine an answer could be found by taking an M113 TOW and adding a few more to account for the SAM's smaller size. I can tell you the crew is four, though.

 

Stats for the MANPAD system ANZA

 

Lenght (Launcher unit)
1.44m
Weight (Launcher unit)
15 kg
Missile weight
9.8 kg
Guidance
Uncooleed passive IR
Warhead
HE Frag. 0.37 kg
Cruise speed
500 m/s
Altitude
50 to 2,300 m
Reaction time
5 s
Range
1,200 to 4,200 m

 

Al-Zarrar (9.3)

Spoiler

Al-Zarrar MBT | Wiki | Military Amino Amino

 

Here we have perhaps the greatest iteration or the venerable T54/55 by way of its Chinese copy (again made by our friends Heavy Industries Taxila).

 

An improved engine, ERA, composite armor, fire control and sensors, a semi-autoloader (the vehicle nonetheless retains a dedicated loader), rubber tracks, laser-warning systems, and, most of all, a 125 mm gun with depleted uranium and atgms.

 

That's a lot.

 

Development of the vehicle, though likely having Chinese and probably French assistance, seems to be much more of a purely Pakistani venture using technology of the Al-Khalid (supposedly at least 53 changes were made in one of several upgrade episodes alone). Introduced in 2003, the vehicle remains in service, and efforts continue to upgrade old Type 59s, T55s, and likely Type 69s as well.

 

Combat weight

42.7 tons

Length

6.04

Width

3.27

Height

2.59

Crew

4

Power-to-weight ratio

17.1 hp/ton

Engine horsepower

730 hp

Maximum torque / rpm

305 Kg/1300-1400 rpm

Maximum speed

55 Km/h

Vertical obstacle

0.8 m

Fording

1.4 m

Main armament

125 mm smoothbore cannon

Secondary armament

12.7mm Type 54 HMG, 

7.62 coaxial machine gun, 

 

Viper (9.7)

Spoiler

IDEAS 2018: Heavy Industries Taxila unveils new Viper Infantry Fighting  Vehicle | IDEAS 2018 News Official Show Daily | Defence security military  exhibition 2018 daily news category

 

A truly Pakistani vehicle for our Pakistani line.

 

Once more a product of the Heavy Industries Taxila, the Viper was revealed relatively recently. An improved descendent of the Tahla, with much better armor and sensors. This thus makes it a very distant descendent of the m113, though at this point the similarities are faint. The turret complex, with a 30mm autocannon, a .50 KORD mg, and 2 Konkurs tandem head atgms, appears to be a Russian product rather than Chinese, a unique thing for this line.

 

IFVs are pretty in vogue right now. There are many good options for the Chinese tree, such as the CM32, the ztz59 ifv, and the zbd-05 boat thing. Still, the more the merrier. In any case, this vehicle is probably the most purely Pakistani vehicle out there, and thus deserves to be in for that reason alone.

 

Max Weight: 11,000 KG

Power Plant: 360 HP Diesel Engine

Maximum Speed: 62 Km/h

Primary Weapon: 2A42 Gun

Weight: 115 KG
Length: 3.027 m
Barrel Length: 2416 mm
Caliber: 30 mm
Barrel: 1
Action: Gas Operated
Rate of Fire: 200-300 rds./min
Maximum Rate of Fire: 550-880 rds./min
Muzzle Velocity: 960 m/s
Effective Range: 2,000 m
Maximum Range: 4,000 m
Feed System: Twin Feed

Secondary Armament

NSV 12.7 mm Machine Gun

Anti-Armor

2x AT-5B Konkurs-M anti-tank guided missiles
It has Tandem warhead – with extended explosive probe. The warhead penetration is 750–800 mm vs RHA.

Firing Range

100-4000 m/day
100-2500 m/night

Additional

Two series of four smoke grenade launchers
EO/IR sights for the gunner and commander.
This modular optronic mast is ideal for long day and night surveillance missions.

 

Al-Khalid (10.0) 

Spoiler

Al Khalid: Pakistan's Armored Fist – Defensionem – The War Bible

 

In a departure from the majority of Sino-Pakistani MBTs, which ultimately trace their lineage back the T55 via the Type 59, here we have something much more analogous to a T-72, with a cassette type autoloader, a three man crew, and a 125mm gun. That isn't to say the vehicle is without its Type 59 lineage completely, however, as it was in fact developed from the Chinese Type 90ii/MBT-2000, a project rejected by the Chinese in favor of a modified version that would become Type 96, but that nonetheless served to pique the interest of the Pakistani authorities, likely due to budgetary concerns.

 

So its a worse Type 96, then? Not quite. This thing can actually use ATGMs. Thank the Ukrainians for that.

 

 Crew    3 men
Dimensions and weight
Weight    48 t
Length (gun forward)    10.28 m
Hull length    7.3 m
Width    3.45 m
Height    2.3 m
Armament
Main gun    125 mm smoothbore
Machine guns    1 x 7.62 mm, 1 x 12.7 mm
Elevation range    - 6 to + 16 degrees
Traverse range    360 degrees
Ammunition load
Main gun    39 rounds
Machine guns    ?
Mobility
Engine    6TD diesel
Engine power    1 200 hp
Maximum road speed    65 km/h
Range    500 km
Maneuverability
Gradient    60%
Side slope    40%
Vertical step    0.85 m
Trench    2.7 m
Fording    1.4 m
Fording (with preparation)    5 m

 

Al Khalid 1 (10.3) 

Spoiler

Al Khalid 1 tank of the Pakistan Army during its induction cermony. :  r/TankPorn

 

A significantly improved take on our older Al-Khalid (nevermind the very confusing naming conventions that apparently start at 0) to add even more spice to our greater Type 96 family.

 

Improvements here include an indigenously Pakistani ERA system, a massive increase in ammunition capacity to 49 units, better sensors, jammers, a faster autoloader (9 rpm), and air conditioning. All-in-all, this makes this perhaps the most formidable take on the Type 96.

 

 Crew    3 men
Dimensions and weight
Weight    50 (?) t
Length (gun forward)    10.28 m
Hull length    7.3 m
Width    3.45 m
Height    2.3 m
Armament
Main gun    125 mm smoothbore
Machine guns    1 x 7.62 mm, 1 x 12.7 mm
Elevation range    - 6 to + 16 degrees
Traverse range    360 degrees
Ammunition load
Main gun    49
Mobility
Engine    6TD diesel
Engine power    1 200 hp
Maximum road speed    65 km/h
Range    500 km
Maneuverability
Gradient    60%
Side slope    40%
Vertical step    0.85 m
Trench    2.7 m
Fording    1.4 m
Fording (with preparation)    5 m

 

VT4 (10.7)

Spoiler

First public appearance of Chinese VT4 tank during military parade in  Pakistan | Defense News March 2021 Global Security army industry | Defense  Security global news industry army year 2021 | Archive News year

 

And here's the one all of you have been waiting for.

 

The Vt-4.

 

The VT-4 is the top of the line export offering from the PRC, analogous to the Type 99. Project name MBT-3000 was unveiled in 2012, and soon found export partners in the Thais, the Nigerians, and the Pakistanis. The Pakistanis had been looking to overhaul their aging fleet, which was still mostly T55 derivatives. The Pakistanis' idea had been to upgrade the Al-Khalid 1 to a Type 99 analogue themselves, with a new engine among other things, but the Al-Khalid 2 wasn't and still isn't ready. As such, Pakistan took the delivery of two of these tanks last year. 

 

Armament    Armor
One 125mm smoothbore gun, one 7.62mm coaxial machine gun and one 12.7mm remotely weapon station    Improved composite armor for hull nose and the front part of the turret. Reactive armor can be fitted to each side of the tank.
 Weight    52,000 kg
Designer Country    Speed
China    70 km/h
Accessories    Range
Collective NBC protection system, IFF (Identification, friend or foe), GL5 active protection system, fire extinguisher feature, air-conditioning system and explosion suppression system.    500 km
Crew    Dimensions
3    Length: 10.10 m; Width: 3.50 m; Height: 2.40 m

 

And that's that. I'm honored that you've read this far and I hope you'll support my proposition and provide feedback in the comments.

I'd like to thank Borotovas and PikPikker as they're the ones who inspired me to do this.

 

Pakistan Zindabad!

 

Lost in the Sauce

http://www.military-today.com/apc/talha.htm

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/pakistan/talha.htm

https://pakistanforces.com/pakistan-army-weapons/

https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/US/M7_Priest.php

https://pakstrategic.com/2020/06/13/pakistans-indigenously-developed-viper-infantry-fighting-vehicle/

https://www.army-technology.com/projects/alzarrarmianbattleta/

https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Al-Khalid_tank#Armament

https://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/modern/Pakistan/Al-Khalid.php

https://www.army-technology.com/projects/vt4-mbt-3000-main-battle-tank/

https://www.armyrecognition.com/pakistan_pakistani_army_missile_systems_vehicles_u/anza_mk-i_mk-ii_mk-iii_man-portable_air_defense_missile_system_technical_data_sheet_specifications.html

http://www.urbanpk.com/pakdef/pakmilitary/army/tanks/patton.html

https://tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/gb/Vickers_Medium_MkI-MkII.php

http://www.historyofwar.org/articles/weapons_churchill_V.html

http://www.rothwell.force9.co.uk/burmaweb/Churchill-burma-india.htm

 

Edited by hienapunk
fixing spelling
  • Like 2
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, TerikG2014 said:

Open for Discussion :salute:

 

Thanks for the help. It was a long road to get here with the formatting monkey giving me a migraine but we did end up getting here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a good concept. I honestly think this could work quite well as a sub-tree like how South Africa is implemented. Good idea OP!

  • Thanks 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Solarmod said:

It's a good concept. I honestly think this could work quite well as a sub-tree like how South Africa is implemented. Good idea OP!

 

Thanks! Yes, it was based on the south Africa subtree concept.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1! Another of my favorite sub-tree concepts!

 

A few months ago I also investigated the idea of a Pakistani sub-tree, so I have some suggestions. First, a few corrections:

  • The Viper IFV uses an Slovakian Turra 30 turret (see: defence.pk).
  • AFAIK the Al-Zarrar doesn't have composite armor, only steel and ERA.

 

And now for some vehicle suggestions:

  • Type 85-IIAP: A Chinese-designed MBT derived from the Type 80 chassis, license-produced in Pakistan starting from 1993. Features a 125mm gun, 730HP engine and composite armor. Additionally, in recent years it's been upgraded with Thetis thermal sights and DU shells. The technology obtained as part of the domestic production was a key part of the Al-Zarrar upgrade program (in particular the gun and engine).
Spoiler

Type85IIAP.jpg

Type85IIAP-Pak_MBT.jpg

full

  • Type 69-IIP: An obscure variant of the Type 69-II exported to Pakistan. Features a 105mm gun. Source
  • M47M: Modernized with the FCS and engine of the M60A1. Would be more unique than the regular M47.
  • M113 Anza SAM: With four Anza MANPADs and two Type 75 14.5mm guns. Source
Spoiler

mi113_04.jpg.668a353c47fedaf7e00becbce60

 

Edited by PlanyKaanere

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1 from me, would love to see some more Pakistani representation in the game and this is the best place to put them!

  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, PlanyKaanere said:
  • he Viper IFV uses an Slovakian Turra 30 turret (see: defence.pk).
  • AFAIK the Al-Zarrar doesn't have composite armor, only steel and ERA.

 

Thanks. I'll note that on the viper.

 

Are you sure about that on the Al-Zarrar though? I'm fairly certain the composite is what gives the turret its odd angular shape when without ERA like the one in the photo.

1 hour ago, PlanyKaanere said:
  • Type 69-IIP: An obscure variant of the Type 69-II exported to Pakistan. Features a 105mm gun. Source
  • M47M: Modernized with the FCS and engine of the M60A1. Would be more unique than the regular M47.

 

Thanks for sending that. Pakistani mods of foriegn vehicles was the next thing I was going to look into.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, hienapunk said:

Are you sure about that on the Al-Zarrar though? I'm fairly certain the composite is what gives the turret its odd angular shape when without ERA like the one in the photo.

 

The "odd angular shape" seems to be just spaced armor, as evidenced by this damaged example: the old turret is still under it, with no signs of composite blocks.

 

Spoiler

qvcPn76.jpg

 

ll-jpg.38046

Intact unit from the same angle

 

I also didn't find any mention of composite on official HIT media.

 

BTW, a few months ago I made a suggestion for the Al-Zarrar, so this is a topic I'm invested in!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, PlanyKaanere said:

 

The "odd angular shape" seems to be just spaced armor, as evidenced by this damaged example: the old turret is still under it, with no signs of composite blocks.

 

Reveal hidden contents

qvcPn76.jpg

 

ll-jpg.38046

Intact unit from the same angle

 

I also didn't find any mention of composite on official HIT media.

 

BTW, a few months ago I made a suggestion for the Al-Zarrar, so this is a topic I'm invested in!

 

Its pretty unclear honestly. It certainly has spaced armor over a t59 turret, that may or may not be filled in with NERA and Kevlar. I've also heard its a mix, with sometimes turret front and usually hull front with the nera/kevlar.

 

There is no mention of composite on the HIT website, but there's also no mention of ERA which we know for a fact it does have, at least on the pages that I've seen.

 

In regard to the picture of a knocked out al zarrar with a void between the front armor and the turret face, that could be because the filler was destroyed/displaced by the multiple hits in the same spot. Or it could be one that simply didn't have it, as apparently armor kit varies. Anyway, the crew did survive the incident just fine, so whatever it was it did work.

 

There are images of vehicles with slatted cage armor around the turret, too. If the composite turns out to be a dud or something inconclusive I propose we just use that instead.

 

 

Do you have more information on the ztz69 105? The source linked is dead. I didn't bother with the ztz85 as I thought it'd better go in the main PRC lines, but if there's enough variation in the Pakistani one I'll include it (or do a mark 1 for china and a mark 2 for Pakistan sort of thing).

Edited by hienapunk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1!, YES Pakistan would be a great sub tree nation for the Chinese Techtree, since China is lacking a lot of stuff right now, such as Helicopters, Naval Ships, New Top Tier Vehicles etc.  So Pakistan would be a great sub tree nation, since their MBT are based of, of Chinese Tanks! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This should be China's subtree if any nation at all, I'd also like to see the Type 69-IIMP and Type 85-IIAP added, since these were specifically built for Pakistan. Great subtree idea, hopefully we get it in game!

 

  • Upvote 1
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's my attempt at an air sub-tree for Pakistan. It's a lot of copy+paste but once we get to newer generation jets you'd get at least 2 unique jets.

 

subtree.png.a230c5f27182706df9a331256ca3

Edited by Solarmod
As promised
  • Thanks 2
medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Solarmod said:

I'll try to make an air sub-tree right now. I'll edit this post when it's done.

 

Thanks homie!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Solarmod said:

Here's my attempt at an air sub-tree for Pakistan. It's a lot of copy+paste but once we get to newer generation jets you'd get at least 2 unique jets.

 

subtree.png.a230c5f27182706df9a331256ca3

Hell yeah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

all other ones are copypaste for me

 

just give me al zarrar(there was a suggestion topic about it?)

 

but.. maybe... yeah.. this subtree thing would fix a little bit chinise copypaste vehicles situation.

 

MAYBE, pakistan+korea+other asian countries subtree?

Edited by modern_primat
medal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On 15/01/2022 at 02:09, hienapunk said:

Do you have more information on the ztz69 105? The source linked is dead. I didn't bother with the ztz85 as I thought it'd better go in the main PRC lines, but if there's enough variation in the Pakistani one I'll include it (or do a mark 1 for china and a mark 2 for Pakistan sort of thing).

 

The source linked is a book (Все китайские танки. «Бронированные драконы» Поднебесной) with two paragraphs about it, not much:

 

Spoiler

image.translated.jpg.f705893ba1b5b3402fe

 

Translation:

Quote

Type 69-IIM (WZ-121H)
The modification was developed in 1988.
Serial production began a year after
later. Differed from Touré 69-IIA by installation
105 mm rifled gun and additional
active protection modules of the front
and sides of the tower.


Type 69-IIMP (BW-121J)
Modification launched in production
since the end of 1991. Compared
c Tour 69M featured improved
night vision devices and system
fire control.

 

From page 46 0f Все китайские танки. «Бронированные драконы» Поднебесной, ISBN 5040328370, link to Google Books

 

Here is a blog post with more details on the information above: https://mil.news.sina.com.cn/jssd/2019-01-08/doc-ihqfskcn5168766.shtml

 

And here are some pictures, including some with a weird commander cupola:

Spoiler

673445_900.jpg

Va4pqjNZwg1hB-h2Y-XRrswPck71-3lGb917jV1P

zr6dumtnstg11.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&a

 

 

EhS1_9EXsAEY5dY?format=jpg&name=large

Hx0C-hrkkwef6668418.jpg

rTx3-hrkkwef6668076.jpg

 

Regarding the Type 85, I feel it's worth mentioning even if it were to be added to a PRC line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...