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[Feedback] Scout aircraft in naval battles.


Stona
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Scout aircraft in naval battles. The ability to launch a scout aircraft from the ship’s catapult (if it has one) has been added to naval battles. It is necessary to open and install the appropriate modification beforehand. After the start of the battle, the launch of the aircraft becomes available after a specific time. To launch, activate the catapult (default "U"), point it outboard and launch the aircraft (default "U"). During flight, you can switch between the aircraft and the ship. As long as the player controls the aircraft the ship will remain on the course it was on at the time of launch. The ship will fire in accordance with the set shooter AI mode. If the ship is destroyed while controlling the aircraft the flight will end after a while. In addition to aerial fighting, scouting aircraft can:

  • Capture points
  • Drop bombs
  • Deploy a smoke screen at altitudes of up to 50m
  • Perform long-range scouting
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So this seems a great new mechanic, just putting a couple questions that have come up so far, that people's testing reports could possibly influence:

 

1) How many other ships can/will get this mechanic in the short term? How could you extend the mechanic to handle the Italian bow-catapult ships? 

2) Should/could the smoke screen capability be added to tech tree versions of the same planes? Given the weight of the apparatus involved, should it be treated as ordnance with a carry weight? Otherwise is there an issue with a player Arado and a launched Arado in the same game having different capabilities?

3) Should/could the smoke screen mechanic be extended to other modes and other aircraft that could carry that form of ordnance? This was used extensively to cover D-Day movement, as a historical for instance, and lots of light and frontline bombers had the documented capability, not just seaplanes. Is <50m the right drop height? Some sources say the drop was normally at 300 feet but presumably if you went any higher in-game the smoke, given its current in game limitations, might not reach the water surface. Is that a problem?

4) Once this moves past the one ship and one plane only, can/should the seaplanes involved for other nations be added as tech tree vehicles (as with the "un-treed" OS2Us now, as most would be a poor 1.0 plane at best)? Is there any issue that some (like the Arado) are more effective, higher-combat BR vehicles than the ones they'll be dogfighting a cap point over? Arado vs OS2U is likely only going to go one way most of the time.

5) The utility of these kinds of seaplanes went away with the advent of effective surface search radars. Is there an issue that one mechanic exists and the other as of yet does not? Does the older ship have a situational advantage over the newer one now?

Edited by Bruce_R1
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I second the opinion that at least some of these aircraft should be added to the standard tree. In particular, the USSR and Italy don't have any researchable floatplanes in the tree and could do with one for low tier naval battles. The Beriev Be-2 that was datamined seems to be perfect for this. The UK and Germany could also do with a nimbler floatplane, as they only have slow flying boats as researchable.

 

 

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When switching to floatplane control, you lose all target locking, target lead and tracking progress on ships and you have to start over again.

 

It will be great to show an icon next to player's name indicating he or she is controlling a floatplane. We already have indicators such as vehicle repairing etc. It should not be too hard to implement a new one.

Edited by Math3matica
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4 hours ago, moridin3 said:

Seems a very interesting mechanic.

 

I sincerely hope that all of these catapult aircraft get added to the standard tech tree for use in other game modes.

I enthusiastically second that!

 

And I don't mind if worse combat aircraft than Po-2!

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They need to turn down the bot accuracy against aircraft, they have insane accuracy far beyond a player controlled ship with maxed out crew. Combined with infinite ammo and no overheating guns they obliterate high tier planes let alone small biplanes. Unless you're lucky enough to get a full game with only human players you will just get sniped by bots when using the seaplane.

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This, the (sea)planes coming through this, and the OS2U updated model are basically the only things I look forward with this update (ok jet sounds too).

 

- As mentioned above, it would be great to also have a recovery mechanism to have a chance of saving them, esp. if the ship you're using has had only one plane (IRL and in game, of course). Might not be used often, but it would be good to have just in case and would be realistic.

- AI control could be a tad better.

- Maybe having some increased accuracy/distance measurement and faster targeting computing when the plane is in the air? Would simulate the scout aircraft transmitting fire data to its ship.

 

 

Best regards,

Phil

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1 hour ago, BaileyThrasher said:

Oh, already discussed about those after I posted about catapult aircrafts and catapult ships in other site. I was thinking of Reggiano Re.2000, Hawker Hurricane and other like that. 

The re.2000cat technically can be equipped on any Italian ship. Irl it was only equipped to the Giuseppe Miraglia and the littorio battleships. The model re.2000cat can look like either models in game the early models were taken from a Hungarian contract so had glass canopy the later models had the scalloped back and looked like the 

Re.2000g.a.

 

https://imgur.com/a/L0EEeVf

Pics of the re.2000cat models. The only external changes gaijin would have to do is to add nubs to the fusilage behind the wings of the g.a. the modules will have to be rearranged and fuel levels ajusted but other than that easy as pie.

 

Edited by angelomorte
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7 hours ago, Ishtarin said:

I hope we get into the realm of possibilities and have float Zeroes/N1Ks on some ships


How about no? This isn’t WoWS.

 

I support all the ideas above except this one.

Edited by kkang2828
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3 hours ago, kkang2828 said:


How about no? This isn’t WoWS.

 

I support all the ideas above except this one.

Considering Kamikawa Maru operated E13As, F1Ms, and A6M2-Ns on the same catapult there is no limitation other than doctrine that would limit float fighters from usage on cruisers and battleships. Italy threw the Re.2000 on the Littorios.

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45 minutes ago, Ishtarin said:

Considering Kamikawa Maru operated E13As, F1Ms, and A6M2-Ns on the same catapult there is no limitation other than doctrine that would limit float fighters from usage on cruisers and battleships. Italy threw the Re.2000 on the Littorios.

He wants to complain about something lol. The plan afaik wasn't just to equip the littorios it just ended up that way with low Italian production numbers. Italy used standardized catapults besides Roma so the re.2000cat could take off from any of them really. It wouldn't be able to stay in the hangars of some ships like Bartolomeo but most of the time the ships kept the planes on the catapults anyways which is why one of the Zara class captains suggested removing the hangar all together.

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12 hours ago, Target1331 said:

t would be good to have just in case and would be realistic.

It would take hours to winch a plane back on and you wouldn't do it under fire. I can see the argument for it, in the same vein as compressed damage control and repair times make sense, but "realistic" as a description seems a stretch.

 

On another note, since it appears catapult floatplane performance is affected by your crew skills on the "real" plane, that would be a stronger argument for letting all these planes have "untreed" versions in rank I regular air. Otherwise again you'd see Arados having significant advantage over OS2Us on a 1 on 1 (of which there should be many over the boat caps if there's BBs on both sides), and both of those types (because you can crewskill up the OS2U) over anything else that doesn't have a treed variant. And that in turn brings up the option of ordnance selection. Smoke generation, bombs, and/or running clean to have dogfight advantages could probably be a user-selectable option here.

Edited by Bruce_R1
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43 minutes ago, Bruce_R1 said:

It would take hours to winch a plane back on and you wouldn't do it under fire. I can see the argument for it, in the same vein as compressed damage control and repair times make sense, but "realistic" as a description seems a stretch.

 

On another note, since it appears catapult floatplane performance is affected by your crew skills on the "real" plane, that would be a stronger argument for letting all these planes have "untreed" versions in rank I regular air. Otherwise again you'd see Arados having significant advantage over OS2Us on a 1 on 1 (of which there should be many over the boat caps if there's BBs on both sides), and both of those types (because you can crewskill up the OS2U) over anything else that doesn't have a treed variant. And that in turn brings up the option of ordnance selection. Smoke generation, bombs, and/or running clean to have dogfight advantages could probably be a user-selectable option here.

That's actually why the Italian float planes flew back to base instead of trying to be put back on at sea except for the sea plane carrier. They realized it wasn't worth it since they would always be within range anyways.

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6 hours ago, Bruce_R1 said:

It would take hours to winch a plane back on and you wouldn't do it under fire. I can see the argument for it, in the same vein as compressed damage control and repair times make sense, but "realistic" as a description seems a stretch.

Yeah, wrong choice of word without clarification... "realistic" in the context of how tank repairs are "realistic" in this game.


Best regards,

Phil

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1 hour ago, Target1331 said:

Yeah, wrong choice of word without clarification... "realistic" in the context of how tank repairs are "realistic" in this game.


Best regards,

Phil

Well I mean to some extent that's kinda odd how would they do that? For example Italians ships mostly didn't have cranes that were used at sea. I think the float planes should be allowed to return to the airfield or land by the ship for nations with that option and then be despawned and redeployed after a cool down. The crane animation would be kinda pointless.

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1 minute ago, angelomorte said:

Well I mean to some extent that's kinda odd how would they do that? For example Italians ships mostly didn't have cranes that were used at sea. I think the float planes should be allowed to return to the airfield or land by the ship for nations with that option and then be despawned and redeployed after a cool down. The crane animation would be kinda pointless.

If they did not have a recovery system, then obviously it would not be possible. But yeah, of course landing at an airfield or sea (air)port would still be possible to safe the plane.

 

If they did, then maybe ship has to be below a certain speed and plane within a certain distance to be recovered. E.g. pressing the seaplane launch button would change to a recovery button while the plane is in distance and similar to how a repair on a tank is started, you have to press the button for a certain amount of seconds to recover the plane.

 

Best regards,

PHil

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Looks like a pretty marginal capability - scouting is essentially useless at the ranges in WT, capping is something planes can already do and is relatively rare - this will make it a little more common perhaps, bombs are light and mostly useless in battles that contain ships this size - there may be the occasional PT boat around....  the smoke screen may be useful depending on how it is done - not sure about other a/c but the Ar196 had smoke generators in its floats!!

 

These photos are of the connections on the left float and the cockpit controls - from http://www.luftwaffephotos.com/lar196misc1.htm

 

image.png.889b6ff7e1ee9b42c0de351bbc4cda

Edited by Josephs_Piano
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21 minutes ago, Target1331 said:

If they did not have a recovery system, then obviously it would not be possible. But yeah, of course landing at an airfield or sea (air)port would still be possible to safe the plane.

 

If they did, then maybe ship has to be below a certain speed and plane within a certain distance to be recovered. E.g. pressing the seaplane launch button would change to a recovery button while the plane is in distance and similar to how a repair on a tank is started, you have to press the button for a certain amount of seconds to recover the plane.

 

Best regards,

PHil

I mean even us navy ships had to come to a complete stop to recover them. It's one of the reasons the Italians usually discarded the idea of reembarking them. The Italian fleet never was gonna leave the med and usually wasn't gonna spend more than a day at sea well within the milage available to the sea planes given their huge range. So generally it was easier to reembark them at port. Not to say that some ships weren't capable of it? But generally unless in the expanses of the Pacific it was rather pointless. When every light cruiser to battleship has a couple of scout planes each with several hours flight time and your fleet GENERALLY sorties in entire squadrons generally you aren't gonna be lacking in aerial recon. You gotta think 2-6 battleships 4-7 heavy cruisers however many light cruisers in a sortie each carrying ~1-2 scout planes. Now imagine had Italian production levels not been crap and had they been able to give each one a re.2000cat. or two.  The main difference would be the returning to base between the ships which could and couldn't recover the scout plane. But since you would have to stop to recover the planes it wouldn't be that much difference especially if they give a return to airfield command.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Josephs_Piano said:

Looks like a pretty marginal capability - scouting is essentially useless at the ranges in WT, capping is something planes can already do and is relatively rare - this will make it a little more common perhaps, bombs are light and mostly useless in battles that contain ships this size - there may be the occasional PT boat around....  the smoke screen may be useful depending on how it is done - not sure about other a/c but the Ar196 had smoke generators in its floats!!

 

These photos are of the connections on the left float and the cockpit controls - from http://www.luftwaffephotos.com/lar196misc1.htm

 

http://www.warbirdphotographs.com/LCBW16/Ar196-Manual-Showing-Left-Float-Connections-For-Smoke-Screen-&-Rear-Cockpit-ASK-SN-Smoke-Screen-Control-84.jpg

The capability would be more useful for Italian and Japanese ships where decent fighters are able to be embarked. Being able to crap out a re.2000 cat or even a scout float plane with one 7.62 to supplement your crap aa on an Italian ship would be useful. Even the 50kg bombs dropable by the ro.43/44 would be of some use against destroyers. Imho Aerial scouting should be like a modifier for the fcs system with quicker solutions and better corrections. 

Edited by angelomorte
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56 minutes ago, angelomorte said:

I mean even us navy ships had to come to a complete stop to recover them. It's one of the reasons the Italians usually discarded the idea of reembarking them. The Italian fleet never was gonna leave the med and usually wasn't gonna spend more than a day at sea well within the milage available to the sea planes given their huge range

This is of course the advantage of a floatplane at sea. Assuming weather is acceptable, it can land and just wait for whenever the ship can make it back if it has to. There's no rush. In combat it was standard to fly all floatplanes off before the engagement in any case. In any case it sounds like they'll be "reloadable" in AB and one-shot deals in RB. I'd be fine with that.

59 minutes ago, Josephs_Piano said:

Looks like a pretty marginal capability - scouting is essentially useless at the ranges in WT, capping is something planes can already do and is relatively rare - this will make it a little more common perhaps, bombs are light and mostly useless in battles that contain ships this size - there may be the occasional PT boat around....  the smoke screen may be useful depending on how it is done - not sure about other a/c but the Ar196 had smoke generators in its floats!!

Interesting: might mean it's a unique capability for the Arados then.

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