Vickers Marksman SPAAG

[nathanclawfish 382]

Hi everyone, today i would like to suggest an SPAAG for the british tree, using a familiar weapons system, the vickers marksman SPAAG. The name of the tank basically says it all, a marksman turret system mounted upon a Vickers Mk.3 chassic, finally giving Britain a direct equivilent to things like the gepard and the type 87. The reason i suggest this is firstly the Cheiftan marksman lacks mobility to keep up with team mates, where as the more mobile ZA-35 lacks the APDS belts in exchange for mobility. The Vickers marksman offers the best of both worlds as it posesses higher mobility than the Chieftan (33mph) well also retaining the APDS rounds that the more mobile ZA-35 is lacking.  

 

History:

 

The Marksman turret was developed by British Firm Marconi Electronic Systems, with the initial development of the system starting in 1983. The first prototype was completed in 1984 and mounted on a Vickers Mk3 hull. And that is basically it, its just a vickers mk.3 hull with a marksman turrent mounted on it, nothing too fancy.

 

Historical Photos:

 

 

Specifications:

 

The weapon system should be well familiar to anyone who has dabbled in the 8.0 aa systems in game, as it is the at this point venerable 2 x 35-mm Swiss Oerlikon autocannons. These guns would be equipt with the same ammunition loadouts currently found in game, such as those present on the gepard, type 87 and Chieftan marksman. The Turrets perfomance should be identical to the marksman currently in game, offering a nearly 90 degree a second turret traverse in addition to the statistics provided in the second chart.

 

 

In regards to the tank's stats, it should offer the following statistics:

 

Armour        front / side / back

Hull                  80 / 30 / 20

Turret             30 / 20 / 20

Speed            forward / back
                        50 / 12 km/h

Number of gears       6 forward/2 back
Weight                       38.7 t

Engine power           720hp

Power-to-weight ratio        18.6 hp/t

 

 

Sources:

• https://tanknutdave.com/the-british-marksman-spaag-turret/
• C.F. Foss, Vickers Tanks From Landships to Challenger 2, Keepdate Publishing Ltd, 1995.
• http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product905.html
• Additional Details of the Marksman twin 35 mm turret are given in Jane's Land-Based Air Defence 1999-2000, page 83.

 

[Thatz 213]

Open for Discussion 

Also with the obscurity of the vehicle if your able to find more history it would help a lot more players understand the history of the vehicle.

[TheFuzzieOne 3,333]

Probably one of the easiest things to include in game. The Marksman turret is a self contained unit (hence its size, it has its own power unlike Gepard etc) and the Vickers is just the Vickers hull without the turret.

 

You could literally just take both in game and whack them together and thats you, new thing for zero effort. And it'd be way better than the Chieftain one due to the mobility. An excellent 8.0.

[Milocat 4,046]

+1 for another Marksman variant.

[nathanclawfish 382]

9 hours ago, Thatz said:

Open for Discussion 

Also with the obscurity of the vehicle if your able to find more history it would help a lot more players understand the history of the vehicle.

I will try, but  unfortunatley there really is not much more to it than what i gave, as it was the first test bed for the marksman system, and it was mounted on a vickers mk3. The second test bed is the chieftan marksman we have in game, and they were just used to test and demonstrate the marksman universal turret, which went on to be sold to the Finns and has been mounted on a myriad of other test chassis since. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by nathanclawfish

[eleks12 819]

+1. Maybe this should be the 8.0 Spaag. However my best guess is that the Chieftan Marksman should be 8.3 And maybe the Roikat Spaag be 8.7. Just a guess.

Edited October 18, 2021 by eleks12

[Thatz 213]

10 minutes ago, nathanclawfish said:

I will try, but there really is not much more to it that give, it was the first test bed for the marksman system, and it was mounted on a vickers mk3. The second test bed is the chieftan marksman we have in game, and they were just used to test and demonstrate the marksman universal turret, which went on to be sold to the Finns and has been mounted on a myriad of other test chassis since. 

If you cant find more information that's fine I just thought it would help alot more players understand where this vehicle came from. It's not needed

[SrNowel59917 370]

+1, but is a bit redundant 

[nathanclawfish 382]

7 minutes ago, SrNowel59917 said:

+1, but is a bit redundant 

how so, its better than the cheiftan marks man in every way bar hull armour, and because it has apds it is not helpless against soviet mediums and heavies like the za-35

[SrNowel59917 370]

2 minutes ago, nathanclawfish said:

how so, its better than the cheiftan marks man in every way bar hull armour, and because it has apds it is not helpless against soviet mediums and heavies like the za-35

it is still redundant, bc you keep having two other spaag with the same anti air capabilities, im not against of it since the model is quite easy to made, but it doenst bring anything to the spaag line. remember that a spaag isnt a tank destroyer

[nathanclawfish 382]

30 minutes ago, SrNowel59917 said:

it is still redundant, bc you keep having two other spaag with the same anti air capabilities, im not against of it since the model is quite easy to made, but it doenst bring anything to the spaag line. remember that a spaag isnt a tank destroyer

 

I dont expect every AA  to be the OTOMATIC, the issue is if an AA lacks the capacity to kill tanks, it commonly results in the vehicle entering a sl cost spiral where it becomes untennably expensive, for example the sidam or the swede Lvrbv 701, or any of the other exclusivly AAM based aa. This is due to the fact that if it lacks the ability to defend itself from tanks, or is super throttled in its ability to do so like the sidam only having 60 effective rounds against tanks, it is played incredibly conservitivly, resulting in a kd in it that is either instant death acheving nothing, or 3 kills no death, because it remained lurking in or near spawn for the entire remainder of the game.  

 

I have little doubt in my mind if this was implimented it would become the go to AA for the br bracket for the British tech tree, as it offers a more jack of all trades AA over the slow chieftan marksman, and the mobile but less punchy and also huge ZA-35.  The only unfortunate thing is it doesnt plug any holes, but i am working away on numerous SPAA for the british tree currently, some of which like my skink post should help plug the gaps

[TheFuzzieOne 3,333]

12 hours ago, eleks12 said:

+1. Maybe this should be the 8.0 Spaag. However my best guess is that the Chieftan Marksman should be 8.3 And maybe the Roikat Spaag be 8.7. Just a guess.

 

Why would you put the Chieftain to 8.3? It's objectively worse than ones like the Gepard or the Vickers marksman. If anything Chieftain Marksman should go down to 7.7 since it's just them but much much slower.

[nathanclawfish 382]

On 19/10/2021 at 03:17, TheFuzzieOne said:

 

Why would you put the Chieftain to 8.3? It's objectively worse than ones like the Gepard or the Vickers marksman. If anything Chieftain Marksman should go down to 7.7 since it's just them but much much slower.

The speed is what ruins the marksman, you have to camp the spawn in it, or risk getting caught out if you decide to move, I didnt really enjoy it when i spaded it after doing the type 877 and gepard, hence why i suggested the vickers marksman, as it is the closest to a equivilent in regards to other nations. 

[Jarms 1,337]

There's also a Challenger Marksman.

 

[nathanclawfish 382]

Two additional pictures Kawaii brought to my attention:

 

 

 

 

[AVROVULCANXH558 155]

+1, would make for a good SPAAG with good mobility

[MajorFooFoo 155]

+1 I'd love to see all Marksman variants in-game.