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LVT-4 Alligator M18A1 - Protection For A Landing Vehicle


DMYEugen
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LVT-4 Alligator M18A1  

44 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you like this vehicle to be added?

    • Yes
      38
    • No
      6
  2. 2. Which version would you like added?

    • Rear-Mounted Version
      0
    • Front-Mounted Version
      7
    • Both
      31
    • I said no
      6
  3. 3. What BR do you think the vehicle should be placed at?

    • 2.0 or lower
      17
    • 2.3
      7
    • 2.7
      8
    • 3.0 or higher
      6
    • I said no
      6
  4. 4. How would you like to see this vehicle available?

    • Tech Tree
      23
    • Squadron
      2
    • GE Premium
      3
    • Pack Premium
      1
    • Event
      7
    • Battlepass
      0
    • Twitch Drop
      0
    • Other (Please explain)
      2
    • I said no
      6


TL;DR: An LVT-4 Alligator landing vehicle mounted with an M18A1 recoilless rifle.

image_2021-08-03_181442.thumb.png.4594bf

 

History:

The gruella nature of the Indochina War made arming every vehicle (APC, tank, jeep, or otherwise) for self-defense a near necessity. As such, most, if not every, LVT-4 Alligator landing vehicle found itself equipped with four machine guns, two .50 cals and two .30 cals. This, however, wasn't enough for some crews and at least three LVT-4s within the unit 1er Groupement Autonome would be further armed with M18A1 recoilless rifles, two of them mounting them at the rear and one of them having mounted it on the front of the vehicle. These modifications were improvised ones and, as such, there aren't many specific details available outside of a few pictures and information on which unit used these vehicles. If anyone has any other significant information, please let me know. 

 

Place In War Thunder:

The LVT-4 and its variants/modifications played a very big part in the Indochina War, however, none of these vehicles are represented in-game and each of them can easily fill a hole in the French tree. The standard LVT(A)-4 would bring some much needed firepower to France's 1.3 ground line up, the LVT-4 Bofors would fill the rank III SPAAG gap, and the modifications suggested here would offer a potentially more bearable alterative to the SAu 40 and maybe even aid in filling the gap between 1.7 and 3.3. That being said, the M18A1 recoilless rifle isn't the most effective anti-tank weapon. It has a velocity of 370~m/s and less penetration than the SAu 40's APHE shell, however, being able to shoot HEAT, it keeps its penetration over distance. Adding to this, the high mounting of the weapon on the vehicle could potentially make it a very effective ridge camper.

 

Specifications:

Spoiler

Armament: M18A1 57mm recoilless rifle (8~ second reload), 2x .50cals, and 3x .30cals

 

Dimensions: 7.90m x 3.29m x 2.46m (L,W,H)

 

Weight: 13500kg

 

Armor: 6-14mm

 

Crew: 3 at the very least (Gunner, Loader, and Driver) 8 at the most (Gunner, Loader, Driver, Co-Driver, and x4 Machine Gunner)

 

Ammunition: HEAT (63~mm of penetration), HE, Smoke, Canister

 

Speed: 32kph (land) 7.5kph (water)

 

Horsepower: 250hp

 

Pictures:

Spoiler

Close up of the first image:

image_2021-08-03_214309.thumb.png.89a05e

 

Rear View (The rifle in this picture is most likely an M20):

image_2021-08-03_214405.thumb.png.b0446e

 

Side View:

image_2021-08-03_215337.thumb.png.02fde4

 

In Water:

image_2021-08-03_214456.thumb.png.5e74a1

 

Front-Mounted Version:

image_2021-08-03_215136.thumb.png.bbfc43

 

Front-Mounted Version With Tarp:

image_2021-08-03_215255.thumb.png.526b27

 

Sources:

Edited by DMYEugen
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Open for discussion :)

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Nice this gun in frontal position plus the 4 lmgs looks so odd it needs to be in game, for the rear I fear that the gun couldn't rotate 360° (technically it's possible but the gunner would need to levitate to reach the gun position) other than that I don't care how it's added TT or event/premium or else, it's so wacky and potentially quite dangerous, it could fit anywhere : light tank or TD line, Event Prem Squadron or BP or else I don't care :)

Edited by Abaddon75
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I must say the recoilless rifle looks much more like an M20 rather than an M18A1 :

Spoiler

M20

125258654.jpg

M18A1

iw_rr_m18_m05.jpg

 

It also makes more sense since the M20 was mounted on a bunch of french vehicles :

Spoiler

- Vespa 150 TAP

Spoiler

Vespa_img_2351.jpg

- Citroën 2CV

Spoiler

xlnin4k03cy61.png?width=600&format=png&a

- Hotchkiss M201

Spoiler

canon.jpg

- Daimler Ferret Mk.II

Spoiler

IMG_6925.jpg

- Fouga VP90

Spoiler

chenillette+VP2.jpg

 

 

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2 hours ago, Cedjoe said:

I must say the recoilless rifle looks much more like an M20 rather than an M18A1 :

Reveal hidden contents

M20

125258654.jpg

M18A1

iw_rr_m18_m05.jpg

 

It also makes more sense since the M20 was mounted on a bunch of french vehicles :

Reveal hidden contents

- Vespa 150 TAP

Reveal hidden contents

- Citroën 2CV

Reveal hidden contents

- Hotchkiss M201

Reveal hidden contents

- Daimler Ferret Mk.II

Reveal hidden contents

- Fouga VP90

Reveal hidden contents

 

 

That's what I initially thought as well, however, pretty much all of the sources I could find explicitly mention M18A1 recoilless rifles on makeshift mounts, so I decided to play it safe and go with the weaker weapon so if it actually did turn out to be a stronger weapon, nothing would be lost. That being said, it is also possible that both rifles were mounted on different vehicles, in which case this suggestion would be an advocation for the M18A1 mounted version or I'll just edit the suggestion to include both of them (or just the M20 if it turns out that the M18A1 wasn't mounted). How something looks in these old photos can change depending on the light. Though I do think that we can say for sure that the rifle in the "Rear View" photo is an M20 (I'll update the caption as well). 

Edited by DMYEugen
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@DMYEugen +1 I support this. Although, the M18 recoilless rifle is small (57mm) and could be easily used by one man. It was nicknamed "pocket artillery". It'd have a max reload of 3 - 4 seconds mounted and with a crew (8 seconds sounds like the larger M20 or M40). M18 pictured below. :)

 

Soldier-firing-M18A1-recoilless-rifle-ko

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4 minutes ago, SturmWerwolf said:

@DMYEugen +1 I support this. Although, the M18 recoilless rifle is small (57mm) and could be easily used by one man. It was nicknamed "pocket artillery". It'd have a max reload of 3 - 4 seconds mounted and with a crew (8 seconds sounds like the larger M20 or M40). M18 pictured below. :)

 

Soldier-firing-M18A1-recoilless-rifle-ko

I was surprised at first too, however, this doesn't seem to be the case.

 

"The M18 can be fired from a tripod (M1917A1 machine gun mount), or the shoulder, or the prone position.  With a two-man crew (one to fire, one to reload), the M18 could sustain a rate of 8 rounds per minute" -Drew Thompson, former Director for China, Taiwan and Mongolia in the Office of the Secretary of Defense.

 

60/8 is 7.5 so 8~ second reload. I'll keep the listed reload speed unless provided with documentation proving otherwise.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 08/08/2021 at 17:52, Solarmod said:

Full support, but I do think that maybe one could be tree, while another is event or premium. 

 

+1 from me, this vehicle is very cool, but I also agree with Solarmod that one in the tree and one as an event/premium would likely work best.

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  • 3 weeks later...
10 hours ago, apostol12 said:

Одной из главных проблем американских морпехов на Тихом Океане была недостаточная огневая мощь в фазе приближения к берегу. Потом-то уже и танки высаживались, и все такое - но последняя миля... Да, на плавающие транспортеры прикручивали РСЗО и делали легкие плавающие танки, но 37-мм... В общем, к 1943 году дело дошло до испытаний пусковой установки Mk.40 mod.0. Простейшая труба на треноге от пулемета должна была служить направляющей для 3,5" (или 5") ракет, стабилизируемых вращением.

Предполагалось, что такие ракетометы можно без труда поставить на различные LVT и стрелять по берегу чем-то посущественнее пулеметов. Оружие испытали, но в серию оно не пошло. Плюсы, конечно, очевидны - но и недостатки тоже. От выхлопа в сам транспортер, полный десантников, до очень условной прицельности огня. Впрочем, попробовали использовать систему с закрытой трубой для установки на LVT(A)(1) вместо 37-мм пушки, но я не знаю дошло ли тут дело до металла.

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maybe you should turn off your automatic translator.

i do not have any trouble with non-English speaker, but this part of the forum is English only. the comment need to be made in English, the is the rules you can find at the Rules, Guidelines & tips.

 

2)  Write your suggestion in English  - All suggestions and replies to suggestions must be written in English so everyone can understand you. If you're not that good with English, write to the best of your abilities and make it as understandable as possible.

 

i suppose there is an exception if you just write sentence to quote some part or just translate something, but in overall, people need to understand what you are saying.

there is a part of the forum where other language is allowed, sadly there is no suggestion there.

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/forum/189-national-communities/

 

i just want to help you to avoid a warning.

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9 hours ago, CaID said:

maybe you should turn off your automatic translator.

i do not have any trouble with non-English speaker, but this part of the forum is English only. the comment need to be made in English, the is the rules you can find at the Rules, Guidelines & tips.

 

2)  Write your suggestion in English  - All suggestions and replies to suggestions must be written in English so everyone can understand you. If you're not that good with English, write to the best of your abilities and make it as understandable as possible.

 

i suppose there is an exception if you just write sentence to quote some part or just translate something, but in overall, people need to understand what you are saying.

there is a part of the forum where other language is allowed, sadly there is no suggestion there.

https://forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/forum/189-national-communities/

 

i just want to help you to avoid a warning.

data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAPABAP///wAAACH5BAEKAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAICRAEAOw==


 

Yes, please this. @apostol12 please use English when speaking in the English forum,  Для русского форума перейдите сюда

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