[Feedback] Answering your questions about aircraft SB

[AWACS_Thunderhea 613]

4 hours ago, Stona said:

 

It is especially aircraft SB that until recently was sharply out of line with the overall mode statistics.

SB economy was broken before, and now it's worse than ever. 
How can you tell us that we were making so many Silver Lions, when we would get a FRACTION of the rewards for the same actions compared to other game modes? Kills, ground targets destroyed...

(Arcade game - only armoured cars and AA trucks destroyed)                                (Simulator game 1 - only Medium tanks destroyed / Simulator game 2 - Howitzers and pillboxes)


Realistic / Simulator
This doesn't tell you nothing? 

And you have the nerve to tell us "The reason for this contrary to popular belief wasn’t only abusers who used the ability to create rooms for unjust enrichment but also the overall economy balance of aircraft SB."
How can you sort out which session is "legit" and which session is used for abusing the game?.

Did you get your statistics from player created rooms? - Distorted data.
Was ground SB data mixed in? Better rewards there.
Did you use game-created official rooms only for your statistics? Yes? - I doubt.
And guess what? Even those "official" rooms are used to abuse and exploit the game, especially in higher tiers.
How? Simple, the matchmaker is outdated, it'll set up top tier games as if they were WW2 battles. So you often get two or more big and powerful nations against one single minor (or less popular) nation. 

These are all the possible nation matchups you can have in game-created rooms. In EC7, the ones in red get empty 90% of the time. They, then, turn into "farming" rooms, where players rack up points without opposition. 

And then this is what happens there.

  It is obvious that you use skewed statistics. We could not possibly get to the point we're at if it wasn't so. 
It's made even more obvious when the Phantom was mentioned - it is the most iconic vehicle used by the abusers. They were deployed to use their 285 FFAR rockets against airfields nonstop, all day, every day, getting over one million silver hours / hour (this is why SB mode was shown as the most profitable). Gaijin saw the statistics and raised its repair cost to 60k, guess what happened next? Almost no one else had the courage to fly the F-4 in a competitive match anymore, only abusers did. And we've been thrown into this endless cycle.


Some data from a game i had yesterday:

I was, obviously, alone for 90% of those 2 hours. Nobody in the right mind would join the losing side. Outnumbered, managed to get 25 player kills and died 5 times. 99% battle activity.

My final results:

Was my score "close to average"? Is this working as intended? 
The time-based earning system does not work for Simulator Enduring Confrontation. Listen to us, for once.

You're killing the game that we love, Gaijin. And i'm getting tired of trying to stop it.

[SturmWerwolf 792]

5 hours ago, Stona said:

You do not block/ban abusers.

We do! On a weekly basis, game masters punish several people for exploiting “boost” accounts in such “treaty” game sessions. We continue to block violators for using game exploits and similar actions that violate the eula. Just a few recent examples of these players: example1 , example2 , example3 . 

We are very grateful to all the players who personally report to us regarding such abusers.

^ Awesome work. Despite any other criticism, this is definitely good and no one can argue with that. There were so many threads popping up about abusers and exploiters in SB, those people need to go. Even non SB players from AB / RB knew that was out of control. 

[TaumelScheibe 183]

The new spawns system discourages players from flying anything but the best available airplanes and it heavily promotes the spamming of unbalanced planes like P-51 H, P-59, Mb.5, ME-264 etc.

There is no longer a limitng mechanic which would cap the amount of overly powerfull planes in a match, as a result the majority of planes have become borderline useless.

This massively hurts the diversity of used planes and this diversity was the one thing which Warthunder did better than other Sims, if i want to limit myself only to a small subset of usable planes i might as well do that in a game with more refined mechanics (e.g Forcefeedback, Weatherconditions, clickable Cockpits).

 

I see that some players do like the new unrestricitve spawn system, while others (me included) despise it for the reasons mentioned above.

I suggest we work out a compromise which doesn't totally push away one of those playergroups.

This could be achieved by reintroducing the old system but with a few modificcations:

1. Lower the Respawn Timers to 5, 10 and 15 minutes maximum.
2. Give all players a starting Pool of 200SP when joining the match, alternatively bring back the 200SP Spawnpoint reserve we used to have.
3. Remove same BR-locks: with the old system all planes with the same BR and of a similar Aircraft Type received a Repawn timer when you died in one of them, eg. crashing in a Bf-109 F4 would lock not only the F4 but also the F4 Trop, G2 Trop, Fw-190 A4 and the TA-154, needless to say that players are not happy about such a mechanic.

 

There is another point i want to talk about

5 hours ago, Stona said:

Even under the condition of dividing the economy into different modes, it conceptually remains a common factor - average earnings and expenses per unit time in the vehicle of the same “economy level” are approximately the same in all game modes and for all types of vehicles

From my own experience i have to higly disagree here, i play both Air AB and SB EC and before the economy Update dropped AB gave me almost twice the amount of Rewards SL wise.

Now after the Update the Rewards in EC have become even worse.

I would higly recommend for the devs to double check their Data because something is clearly not working out here.

 

[_Shortik_ 17]

Please,

whoever is responsible for that, just take 2 hours and test it yourself if you dont believe us. Are we worth it?

If you would have tested it, there would be no "economy is balanced".

Beware, the players are running and starting to have fun with other sims, as I am.

 

See you in the skies (or not)

 

 

[DrJebus 42]

12 minutes ago, _Shortik_ said:

Please,

whoever is responsible for that, just take 2 hours and test it yourself if you dont believe us. Are we worth it?

If you would have tested it, there would be no "economy is balanced".

Beware, the players are running and starting to have fun with other sims, as I am.

 

See you in the skies (or not)

 

 

 

Very much agree with this.

 

Be honest: has any dev played a 2+ hour game of EC in the last 2 weeks (failing that, when was the last time any dev played a full game of EC)? If so, how much SL did they make after spawn costs, and at what tier?

[Herra_Tohtori 1,574]

7 hours ago, Stona said:

Even under the condition of dividing the economy into different modes, it conceptually remains a common factor - average earnings and expenses per unit time in the vehicle of the same “economy level” are approximately the same in all game modes and for all types of vehicles. All economy changes that were made in the game are aimed at maintaining these fundamental principles of balance. 

 

It is especially aircraft SB that until recently was sharply out of line with the overall mode statistics. The reason for this contrary to popular belief wasn’t only abusers who used the ability to create rooms for unjust enrichment but also the overall economy balance of aircraft SB. This was the reason for the change and updates that came out recently.

 

That statement is something I would assume Gaijin to aim to, and I'm glad to hear that is the official position of Gaijin.

 

However, in practice I have very different experience regarding the actual economy balance between modes.

 

First, if we look at SB Ground to compare the rewards between planes and tanks. For what it's worth I have premium account, but for the sake of simplicity I will use figures that I am earning because I'm comparing my earnings in one game mode or vehicle to my earnings in another game mode or vehicle, so the figures are still comparable with each other.

 

Planes have a lot better rewards than tanks do. If I do, say, tier 3 SB Ground battles in a tank I might get something around 20-30k SL for a victory game with decent success.

 

If I play in the same line-up with a plane, it's common to see rewards at least twice as high, around 40-60k SL mark.

 

And I'm not talking about outlier games, like comparing a good result with a plane to an average result with a tank. No, even a mediocre game in a plane, (maybe have just one kill and one assist or something like that), is still likely going to get more SL than if you were using a tank and had a game with four kills and two caps, for example.

 

So from my point of view it is much easier to earn Silver Lions with a plane than it is with a tank. There are other possibilities, like there being a lot more very poor pilots than there are very poor tankers, which could skew the average earnings of pilots overall and the result could push competent pilots into higher rewards - but this doesn't seem likely, because even quite poor games in a plane can still give better rewards than really good games in a tank.

 

Moving on to comparison between SB Ground and SB Air, using comparable aircraft.

 

Assuming that using an aircraft in SB Ground yields 40-60k lions and each game lasts 15-20 minutes, we get an approximate three games per hour for a yield of 80-120k SL/hour.

 

By contrast, I would count myself lucky if a single game in EC would yield me this much profit. Even 3-hour long marathon sessions usually don't go very high.

 

 

So, what could be causing this?

 

Well, one of the things responsible for this discrepancy might be how repair costs work in SB Ground, versus how spawn costs work in SB EC.

 

In SB Ground, it's quite common for me to not lose any aircraft. This means I don't have to pay anything, or sometimes just very light repair costs for having a slightly damaged airframe or something.

 

By contrast, in SB EC I have to pay the aircraft's repair cost up front every time I want to spawn an aircraft into the game. And even if the aircraft is undamaged at the end of battle, I don't get any of that money back, it's gone. And if you want to for example use different aircraft in the same game, you need to pay the spawn costs for all of them at least once. In terms of making the economies more comparable, I think it would be fairer if players could recover the spawn cost of the plane every time they land it and despawn, or if they are flying at the mission end.

 

Secondly, there's victory rewards. Victory reward for Silver Lions is (in theory) +67% of the earnings in the battle, but this doesn't seem to really work out in the math.

 

For the sake of example, here's a result screen from a few days ago:

 

 

 

This was a Rank 4 SB EC game with the Chinese P-51K. Active bonuses were premium account (+50% SL) and a 150% SL booster (+150% SL).

 

As you can see I only played for 33 minutes, since I joined at the tail end of a long mission. The mission ended up in a victory on timed resolution, and I only did a single fly-out with 4 kills, 1 assist, 2 captures and no deaths.

 

First, looking at the victory reward, it's stated to be 25,581 SL. But if we calculate the Useful actions (40,457 SL) and Landings (9,588) together, that comes up to 50,045 SL.

 

67% of that should be 33,363 SL.

 

If we calculate the proportion that the Victory reward actually is of the earnings (minus Achievements), that's 25,581 / 50,045 = 0.51

 

So, the victory reward in this case is closer to 50% than 67% as it should be.

 

Further, the total earnings in this mission were 75,766 SL, but subtracting the 18,400 SL to spawn the aircraft in the first place (stock plane, so the spawn was "cheap") the actual net result is only 57,376 SL.

 

Now, this might seem like a good result for only half an hour of gameplay.

 

However, remember I was using a 150% SL booster in this mission, which means that without the booster my earnings would have been 37,883 SL and subtracting the 18,400 SL spawn cost, that would have given me a net result of 19,483 SL.

 

Now, also remember that I am using a Premium account which gives me +50% SL bonus. That means the actual base reward here was 25,255 SL. Subtract 18,400 SL from that and you get a whopping 6,855 SL of net reward.

 

 

Math check: Base reward 25,255 SL * (100% + 50% premium + 150% booster) = 25,255 SL * 300% = 75,765 (which is the same as my actual earnings, minus rounding errors from the above calculations).

 

 

So. Someone who is playing the game with no premium account, and no boosters active, would have gotten a net reward of 6,855 SL from a mission where they shot down four planes, got one assist, helped to capture to zones, and didn't die once, and they did this in half an hour.

 

Let's extrapolate that to what could be earned in a full 3 hour EC game with the same performance! Multiply all the figures by six, that comes up to 24 kills, 6 assists, 12 zone captures, and zero deaths. Now the total rewards should technically also be multiplied by six - so that comes up to about 151,530 SL. Subtract the single spawn cost of 18,400, and the total earnings would be about 133k SL for 3 hours.

 

This would mean approximately 44k SL/hour.

 

Now, this would be the estimated reward from a full three hours of gameplay. Keeping up this level of performance and not dying once in that time is a stretch, but that's why I'm specifically calculating this as an upper bound of what reward could be achieved by someone who doesn't have premium account or boosters active.

 

For myself, using premium, the figure does come up to 227,298 SL rewards, minus at least one spawn cost of 18,400 SL, which comes to a net reward of about 209k SL, yielding about 70k SL/hour.

 

Remember that this is an upper estimate, because even a very skilled and cautious pilot will struggle to stay alive in one plane for the entire game's length. And even if they don't die and have to respawn, they might want to play some other planes in that game, and every spawn cuts into the profit margins like an obsidian scalpel.

 

Meanwhile, in SB Ground I can consistently make over 100k SL/hour in mid-tier games, even without using any boosters.

 

 

And speaking of boosters that's another thing where SB EC is disadvantaged. Each booster counts 30 minutes as "one battle", and while some boosters have multiple battles in them, these tend to be of the lower boost amounts.

 

When you're playing SB Ground, you can activate boosters between games because the session changes regularly. However, in an EC game you can't activate more boosters mid-game. Overall this is a small inconvenience compared to the fact that the baseline economy of SB EC is currently quite unbalanced.

 

 

For the sake of comparison, in a recent game in SB Ground I flew the P-47D-25, killed four ground targets, one air target, didn't die, and we won the game. I had a +15% SL booster active in that game, and my total earnings were 59,698 SL. Time played was 15 minutes.

 

What this means is that the base reward was around 36,181 SL. With Premium account only (+50%), the reward would've been 54,271, and with the booster (+15%) that comes back to the original 59,698 SL.

 

And because I didn't die, the repair cost was 444 SL and the cost of munitions used in the game was 1,900 SL, for a total cost of 2,344 SL.

 

 

So perhaps you can see the issue.

 

Even if the game modes are supposed to give a comparable SL and RP per hour, it doesn't seem to be working correctly at the moment.

 

To summarize:

 

A game of SB EC with play time of 33 minutes in a Rank IV plane, 4 kills, 1 assist, 2 caps, victory and no deaths yields a F2P profit of 6,855 SL (approx. 7k SL)

 

A game of SB Ground with play time of 15 minutes in a Rank III plane, 4 ground kill, 1 air kill, victory and no deaths yields a F2P profit of 33,837 SL. (approx. 34k SL)

 

If we just straight up divide these by play time to get a rough SL/hour figure, the results are even worse:

 

SB EC with one death every half hours: 14k SL/hour

 

Three-hour SB EC with no deaths at all: 44k SL/hour

 

SB Ground: 136k SL/hour

 

 

In terms of player performance I would say these are about the same (not surprising since they were flown by the same person). They might not represent average performance, in fact they are kind of decent games for me, but they should still be comparable with each other.

 

In other words, a certain effort expended in SB Ground seems to yield significantly more Silver Lions than the same effort expended in SB Air EC.

 

 

TL:DR:

 

Looking at the numbers it seems almost impossible to think of any way the current economy actually yields similar SL/hour reward rates for SB Air EC and SB Ground.

 

Either there is something really wrong with Gaijin's statistics or their interpretation, or there's something going on that I don't really understand.

 

Are we sure that someone isn't trying to balance EC game rewards on per-battle basis, rather than per-time basis?

Edited August 2, 2021 by Herra_Tohtori

[Bloodlet 408]

This looks like Gaijin is basically saying that you can expect to often lose SL for any vehicles over rank IV and saying that higher rank vehicles will be rewarded more while forgetting that higher rank vehicles fight other higher rank vehicles and in that zero sum game someone has to lose. And also saying that removing spawn costs somehow means repair costs would have to be doubled because of their own arbitrary rules. Nobody is forcing you to do this to the players, please stop acting like it.

 

Sorry but no, I pay for premium and own a bunch of premium vehicles. I do not want to spend hours of time playing the game just to progress backwards . Coming to SB I had to pay for lineups and train multiple crews compared to just one in AirRB which is expensive in and of itself, now I have to contend with spending hours paying silver lions for planes that may not die while also being rewarded less for my actions or even losing lions completely. I haven't been over 1mil SL in weeks or more especially with the changes you've made conveniently made around the same time I started playing SB and now I no longer feel like logging in because I feel punished for playing rather than rewarded which means I likewise won't reward you with my money unless things change.

Edited August 2, 2021 by Bloodlet

[J26Lennox26 128]

If the SB rewards were not to be greater than on AB/RB? then what is the purpose of playing SB EC?

 

1. Taking away the timer and respawn mechanics was a good step IMO, this will bring more players to the mode and give freedom to the players in each bracket: Although, some aircrafts might need their simulator BR reviewed becuase of this change, otherwise top-liners can be exploited for their obvious advantage.

 

2. Top tier aircraft = Less reward? This doesn't seems fair for the player base in many regards; for example, the players are now discouraged to play higher tiers becuase they know their rewards are dampened. Currently, If an average player tries to play top-tier EC, he will likely come out with a dull reward as the rewards are not profitable versus the costs. What i mean to say is the rewards per vehicle (no matter the rank) should be proportional to the repair cost as a main factor: If my X aircraft is set to be 43.k in SL for repair and I'm supposed to destroy X targets and return, would I do it knowing the potential reward won't cover the repair price or at least profit by a small margin? 

 

3. Sure with greater rewards, a balanced repair cost should apply, yes of course, but this balance could happen also in other ways such as an increase in the price of payloads, added price of fuel which would now limit the flight time and work as a balance for some aircraft, increase in price of ammo belts as well. If players do not complete their objective or can't achieve air/sea/ground kills is there where their SL will be affected; same should occur if the player is downed without achieving anything. 

 

The bottom line is,

• Simulator players should not be put in a situation where they lose more than what they can gain (Drives players away rather than making the mode more appealing for the community)
• Simulator rewards should not be equal or less than AR/RB, instead more. Simulator offers a greater difficulty in time, visibility, controls, engagements, which should be adequately rewarded in SL/RP. 
• Outstanding players, Premium bonus, premium vehicles and boosters are wildcards that cannot be balanced in a greater level becuase they are meant to win more than what they can possibly lose. But this is not the case of what currently is happening, Veteran players are complaining about poor rewards despite their best efforts, Premium accounts and boosters seems like a conditional to winning something good in Sim rather than improving an already decent reward. Thus premium vehicles seems like the one of the only ways of getting some profit out of EC, this then nullifies or diminishes any use of other non-premium vehicles, what would be the point of using regular vehicles then?  - As validation for my points here, please check the post of the community in this thread. 
• Skills, objectives, ammunition, fuel, payload, repair cost, and victory; should be the other main balancing SL factors to consider rather than activity alone.

 

Suggestions.

 

- Remove the anticipated payment of repair cost of aircraft; is flawed in several ways;

• Players are investing before winning anything
• Players risk to lose the aircraft and not win anything.
• If a player completes objectives and gains rewards, returns safely to base, he should not have to pay for the repair cost of the aircraft in the first place.
• If a player cannot gather enough to out-cost the already paid repair cost, he is set to lose SL in each flight out. 

- Find more organic ways to balance the rewards such as those mentioned above: Ammunition belts, fuel, payloads, etc.

- Rely more on the automatic matchmaking system rather than individually set custom missions which encouraged some players to farm. (In a similar fashion as Events)

- Please, do not rely purely on statistics as they can be distorted by few very outstanding players, toxic farmers and very bad players. 

 

Thanks for listening the community, we, mods and dev team should keep working together to make the modes fun and balanced for everyone. 

[Mr_New_Vegas 253]

8 hours ago, TheFurNinja said:

I knew someone in Gaijin cared about the mode - it is clear though that some mismanagement of resources has been in play.
 

The reason why it's so bad is because nobody cares. This is what happens when nobody cares.

[Mursac 87]

I liked the removal of timers at first, but now I'm not so sure.  Turns out, they were vital to maintaining the variety of vehicles in play, and gave lower level aircraft a chance.  Understand, my problem was that the timers were too long.  Thirty minutes?  If I wanted to fly a specific aircraft, it was faster to leave, earn SP, and re spawn in another match if I was killed.  Now?  I'm flying aircraft I don't have regular access to, but so is everyone else.  Lower performance aircraft are getting trounced, and we keep seeing the same planes over and over.  So far, I'm in favor of timers with a max wait time of 15 minutes.  Do not reintroduce spawn points.  These are chiefly what barred us from having our choice of aircraft, and were an ongoing annoyance, hence why we liked that 200 SP holdover a while back.

 

Maybe a week long test? Shorter timers, no spawn points.

 

The goal here is two fold: allow any aircraft in your lineup to spawn immediately upon entering a match, and still control the population of higher level aircraft as the match progresses.  It'd still be faster to join another match if your favorite high level plane is destroyed, but with a quicker turnaround and more incentive to stick around due to the new scoring system, hopefully that won't be as much of a problem.

[Herra_Tohtori 1,574]

I think the timers would be better received if they started from the moment you spawn, rather than from the moment you lose the aircraft.

 

To illustrate how this would change the dynamics: Let's say an aircraft has a timer of 30 minutes. In the old system, that meant that a player would always have to wait 30 minutes before having access to that aircraft again.

 

This led to situations where, when a player wanted to level up the modifications on a certain aircraft, it could sometimes be incredibly frustrating because the timers would stop you from actually using that aircraft continuously even if you died rarely. This meant that it was more practical for players to leave the mission, join another game, quickly get spawn points, and spawn the aircraft they wanted to play without a 30 minute timer in the other mission.

 

This then had knock-on effects like players not staying in games, and leading to games becoming ghost towns at some point.

 

However, if the timer starts from the moment you spawn, things change quite dramatically. Instead of forcing a player to wait the timer after dying, the timer would basically give you the minimum time you have to stay alive in order to respawn immediately. It would reward players who can actually stay alive for long enough that the timer ticks down. You could also think of it as the time it takes to "produce" a new aircraft to the line-up to replace a lost one.

 

I would also not be adverse to the return of spawn points.

[PGNoob 86]

Quote

But these are the disadvantages of other game modes and vehicle types which at the moment don’t have a good solution.  

 

A "good solution for US" is what you actually mean, dont try to play as if there isnt a solution anywhere, the entire community has been VERY vocal about possible solutions to the repair cost dilemma ACROSS ALL THREE GAMEMODES yet you turn a blind eye on EVERYTHING because you seem overly attracted to "mUh sTaTisTiCS".

The innability of the developers to THINK FOR THEMSELVES instead of using an Excel sheet to calculate which plane, tank or ship isnt gonna be playable anymore is honestly sickening. Now you are killing an ENTIRE GAMEMODE because of that.
 

Edited August 3, 2021 by PGNoob

[[email protected] 1,949]

All the screenshots of measly earnings after repairs are paid still doesn't justify just how anemic the earnings are when you factor in the modifications SL costs that are astronomically higher than the end SL payout, I can't see how a new SL player would ever be able to ace aircraft or buy their way to the next tier without being in the negative, I have a blanket of 6mil SL from naval earnings but if I buy any new aircraft and play them I'll see that SL hemorrhage away from the initial cost + crew cost and then the modification costs on top of those after every match, even with a very high K/D, top of the scoreboard, and playing objectives I still don't come anywhere close to breaking even if I have to buy just a single modification nevermind making a profit, how is a complete newcomer supposed to cope with that when they have no SL backlogged and are still learning to fly so won't usually pull off high performances

[[email protected] 39]

11 hours ago, ZdrytchX said:

It would have to be carefully done. If you didn't remember the days when simulator battles was basically a perma-even type game mode, matchups like Iwo Jima were literally just 14 B-24s with 50 cals that worked like NR-30s today, fighting 11 zeros, some of which had very high repair costs in excess of 60k SL. Most planes back then only had repair costs of the 10-25k SL range. Nevertheless, back then in 2013 at least you were pretty much guaranteed the minimum SL reward of 5k * multiplier (typically around 300%, so most planes earnt around 15k without premium) per kill, but later the coefficient reduced to 1000SL/kill, although it was compensated by "Battle activity" which back then was simply scoring points by being near enemies to even the misbalance between newbies and veterans. But still, Requiring 4 kills to make even with SL, which can be considered blasphemy in RB, is generous compared to today's rewards.

It's not something to pay attention to.

There is also a non-discriminatory room for the introduction of all nations with user-made SBECs.
There is also a war room for one nation versus all other nations.

It would be much healthier if Gaijin prepared a set matching with an equal number of countries.

[gromvoiny 12,767]

7 hours ago, Bloodlet said:

This looks like Gaijin is basically saying that you can expect to often lose SL for any vehicles over rank IV 

 

Not any vehicles, premiums are exception to that regardless of rank, in case you missed or misunderstood that part of the answer. 

 

Quote

 

Sorry but no, I pay for premium and own a bunch of premium vehicles. I do not want to spend hours of time playing the game just to progress backwards

 

So you are contradicting yourself. Also, the answer doesn't even mention premium account, which obviously improves your SL gains additionally. 

[ItalianHitman 1,288]

1 hour ago, gromvoiny said:

 

Not any vehicles, premiums are exception to that regardless of rank, in case you missed or misunderstood that part of the answer. 

 

 

So you are contradicting yourself. Also, the answer doesn't even mention premium account, which obviously improves your SL gains additionally. 

This is 15 minutes of me clicking ships in naval:

 

Spoiler

Which is arguably much easier to play than Air SB (Even for someone like me who's a total n00b in naval) 

There is absolutely no way, you could get 184K SL in 15 minutes in Air SB ... no matter the vehicle or rank ...
Max SL reward/min multiplier in the game is for tier VI premium jets, which is 3810 (when paired with premium account), which means, even with 100% activity (aka max rewards in the new system) and victory, you will get:
15 * 3810 * 1.67 = 95.5K - 14.5K (For spawn cost of e.g. F-5C) = 81K 
So the maximum theoretical rewards you can get in aircraft SB, with best and most expensive premium vehicles with highest SL multiplier, premium account, and being a total ace (100% activity), is roughly half of what you can practically get in Naval RB by being a total n00b and playing a cheap premium destroyer.

PS: Please don't nerf naval rewards, I'm just saying Air SB rewards should be better!

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by sudo__su

[Kaasjager010 248]

17 hours ago, Stona said:

 

Cancel the fly out deposit and charge only for repairs.

In terms of economy balance, there will be no difference. If we remove the fee for the fly out, the cost for repairs will grow accordingly by 2+ times (in proportion to the ratio of fly outs to deaths) to match the described balance of economy in economy ranks for all game modes. 

For example in the old economy model, the correct price for respawn in Phantoms was 500-700k SL; if we replace the fee to repair one in the new system, then for the top vehicles, the cost will be about 100-200k. In our opinion a system with less but more frequent spending is more correct than a system with infrequent spending at a substantially larger amount of SL. Judging by your feedback - you are on the same page, as no one likes to pay the high cost of repair of the best vehicles in RB or naval battles. But these are the disadvantages of other game modes and vehicle types which at the moment don’t have a good solution.  

 

 

 

@gromvoiny why not take fly out costs out of the profits. This would mean a negative balance at the end of the match would net 0 SL so you aren't "punished for playing".
This would encourage people to play more even though they are getting their *** kicked. I change servers after I am down 30k, I wouldn't change if there was nothing to lose, only less to gain.
The problem with averaging everything or even getting median profits then there will be large amounts of outliers who repeatedly have nett minus profits at the end of a match... This risk in turn promotes farming play styles for people sick of having a negative balance after a match... Using these average or median profits per match will yield the same result if you don't punish bad players with minus balances at the end of a match.
I only look for server with mostly bots because I need to shoot down bots because most players shoot me down and I need a way to compensate that isn't a boring play style like bombing. If I had nothing to lose then I'd be non stop trying to dogfight other people...to their and my enjoyment!

This nett 0 SL can be ignored for people with more than 1.5 million SL in their account to counter "rich" zombers.

Edited August 3, 2021 by Kaasjager010

[ZdrytchX 1,261]

11 hours ago, _Shortik_ said:

Please,

whoever is responsible for that, just take 2 hours and test it yourself if you dont believe us. Are we worth it?

If you would have tested it, there would be no "economy is balanced".

Beware, the players are running and starting to have fun with other sims, as I am.

 

See you in the skies (or not)

 

 

Tell 'em to try making money, without having to resort to a brain-dead tactic like zombing

1 hour ago, gromvoiny said:

Also, the answer doesn't even mention premium account, which obviously improves your SL gains additionally. 

Majority of sim players these days have premium account. If we're all complaining we can't make profit on premium account, that argument is invalid.

 

[gromvoiny 12,767]

50 minutes ago, sudo__su said:

This is 15 minutes of me clicking ships in naval:

 

Reveal hidden contents

PS: Please don't nerf naval rewards, I'm just saying Air SB rewards should be better!

 

 

I don't know what point you're trying to make by posting results of a battle in a low rank vehicle and a premium one on top of that. Yes, this is where you're getting the most positive SL outcome, like our answers state you should. The exact amount depends on game mode etc etc, the important part is the guaranteed general net gain. 

[ItalianHitman 1,288]

2 minutes ago, gromvoiny said:

 

I don't know what point you're trying to make by posting results of a battle in a low rank vehicle and a premium one on top of that. Yes, this is where you're getting the most positive SL outcome, like our answers state you should. The exact amount depends on game mode etc etc, the important part is the guaranteed general net gain. 

I'm not sure if you read my post.
I just calculated the maximum theoretical SL reward possible in Air SB (In any tier), for you. You can not make more than that ... it's theoretically impossible. 
"guaranteed general net gain" can't be higher than the theoretical maximum ... 

And that theoretical maximum is roughly half of what I could practically make in an actual match, in naval ... 

[ZdrytchX 1,261]

Even russian forum is complaining 

Quote

16 часов назад, swierDXD сказал:

Просто вопрос, почему вы не можете прислушаться к комьюнити СБ, вы просто делаете вид, что собираете фитбэк? Раньше за нормальный бой я получал 300-500к серебра иногда даже 700к(считая цену ремонта), сейчас же я еле как ухожу в ноль, вот скажите, как я должен купить все это, если я не хочу опускаться до уровня танкиста?

[spoiler] [/spoiler]

Почему я за 3ч сессию в СБ получаю меньше, чем танкист за 15мин. игры в своем РБ? Я конечно понимаю, что игра уже давно не про самолеты, но зачем так сильно гнобить пилотов?
 

Фармить на более низких рангах, где ремонт и боеприпасы стоят дешевле. Использовать премиумную технику.

На второй вопрос в анонсе мы ответили. Некоторые награды за действия будут ещё корректироваться.

Lil bit google translate:

Quote

16 hours ago, swierDXD said:

Just a question, why can't you listen to the SB community, are you just pretending to collect fitback? Previously, for a normal battle, I received 300-500k of silver, sometimes even 700k (counting the cost of repairs), now I barely go to zero, tell me, how should I buy all this if I don't want to go down to the level of a tanker?

 

Why do I get less for a 3-hour session in the SB than a tanker for 15 minutes. games in your RB? Of course, I understand that the game is not about airplanes for a long time, but why should the pilots spread rot so much?
 

Farm at lower ranks where repairs and ammo are cheaper. Use premium vehicles.

We answered the second question in the announcement. Some rewards for actions will still be adjusted.

mega OOOOF

[LuftKaffee 188]

I have a little question, how does it work... i mean why?

I cant imagine...  

 

It is a low level SB player

Edited August 3, 2021 by LuftKaffee

[ZdrytchX 1,261]

2 minutes ago, LuftKaffee said:

I have a little question, how does it work... i mean why?

I cant imagine...  

 

It is a low level SB player

You found one of a hundred or two keyboard macro accounts

[ItalianHitman 1,288]

BTW I miscalculated it, because I forgot the reward for battle time was subsequently removed ... (the 1.3 multiplier).
So the actual maximum theoretical reward for Air SB is even lower!

15 * 3810 * 1.67 = 95.5K - 14.5K (For spawn cost of e.g. F-5C) = 81K 

Which is even less than half of what I made in that naval match (184K, with premium account) ... 

@gromvoiny

Edited August 3, 2021 by sudo__su

[ElGravy 53]

19 minutes ago, gromvoiny said:

 

I don't know what point you're trying to make by posting results of a battle in a low rank vehicle and a premium one on top of that. Yes, this is where you're getting the most positive SL outcome, like our answers state you should. The exact amount depends on game mode etc etc, the important part is the guaranteed general net gain. 

 

I believe he's trying to point out the highest SL/minute for the new air SB reward system is 3810 SL/m on all high tier premiums, giving a base theoretical maximum 57,150 SL per 15 minutes if you play flawlessly. That does NOT take into account spawn cost. A 4.7 premium ship made 2.5x that in a 15 minute battle.

Edited August 3, 2021 by ElGravy