[Feedback] Answering your questions about aircraft SB

[Stona 72,454]

Greetings to all fans of Aircraft SB. As a result of the major changes in the economy and various mechanics in aircraft SB, you have asked many questions and made many suggestions. We want to answer them as well as share with you plans for the further development of this game mode.

 

Let us start with a key explanation of the principles of economy in War Thunder.

 

Even under the condition of dividing the economy into different modes, it conceptually remains a common factor - average earnings and expenses per unit time in the vehicle of the same “economy level” are approximately the same in all game modes and for all types of vehicles. All economy changes that were made in the game are aimed at maintaining these fundamental principles of balance. 

 

It is especially aircraft SB that until recently was sharply out of line with the overall mode statistics. The reason for this contrary to popular belief wasn’t only abusers who used the ability to create rooms for unjust enrichment but also the overall economy balance of aircraft SB. This was the reason for the change and updates that came out recently.

Why am I earning so little in the top vehicle even when getting good results?

Because the game in vehicles of rank IV and above doesn't provide a high return on investment in the economy. And it is valid for all game modes. Higher rank vehicles have a higher expected level of reward per unit of time but at the same time they have higher expenses - with repair, ammo and crew. The guaranteed positive average balance of income and expenses is applied to vehicles below rank IV as well as premium vehicles (as intended for increased earnings). Reward multipliers (for regular game modes) and maximum reward for useful actions (for aircraft SB) of high ranked vehicles are higher than those of medium and low ranked vehicles but the risk and cost of maintaining such vehicles is significantly higher. 

Cancel the fly out deposit and charge only for repairs.

In terms of economy balance, there will be no difference. If we remove the fee for the fly out, the cost for repairs will grow accordingly by 2+ times (in proportion to the ratio of fly outs to deaths) to match the described balance of economy in economy ranks for all game modes. 

For example in the old economy model, the correct price for respawn in Phantoms was 500-700k SL; if we replace the fee to repair one in the new system, then for the top vehicles, the cost will be about 100-200k. In our opinion a system with less but more frequent spending is more correct than a system with infrequent spending at a substantially larger amount of SL. Judging by your feedback - you are on the same page, as no one likes to pay the high cost of repair of the best vehicles in RB or naval battles. But these are the disadvantages of other game modes and vehicle types which at the moment don’t have a good solution.  

Will a player be paid for damaging enemy vehicles?

Yes, critical damage counts as ⅓ of the reward for shooting the enemy down. And assisted destruction will be counted as ⅔.

The reward in points for destroying the enemy and for some other actions doesn’t match the difficulty of battle in aircraft SB. 
And in some cases it is like this. The reward in points for destroying an aircraft carrier will be lower that the reward for destroying the enemy base for example, even though the aircraft carrier is a more difficult target - it moves, maneuvers, is well protected by air defense and can even withstand a full bomb load of an aircraft. 

The current scoring system is the same for all game modes and vehicle types and requires tweaking for aircraft SB. The changes will affect rewards for different actions, including destroying the enemy (controlled by real players).

You do not block/ban abusers.

We do! On a weekly basis, game masters punish several people for exploiting “boost” accounts in such “treaty” game sessions. We continue to block violators for using game exploits and similar actions that violate the eula. Just a few recent examples of these players: example1 , example2 , example3 . 

We are very grateful to all the players who personally report to us regarding such abusers.

What will be happening in the game mode next?

We will continue to refine some of the mechanics. 

We have received several suggestions from you, some of which are really quite applicable - such as the need to revise the rewards in points for some actions for the “Enduring Confrontation” game sessions, which are fairer for the complexity of battle in SB game mode. Some of the other suggestions are very close or even coincide with our plans . for example to limit the lower BR value in game sessions and to make other changes directed against the abuse of the game mode mechanic.

We are already working on the aircraft SB game mode as you can see from the changelog in the game. So, for example in the latest updates respawn scores were disabled and the timer has been removed before the respawn on the vehicles of the non-initial game session’s BR after the loss of an aircraft, as well as a bug due to which the reward for useful actions wasn’t counted has been fixed.    

We will take into account your other comments on the mechanics that you leave in the comments. All of them will be considered. 

 

 

[AG3F2 1,649]

Quote

as no one likes to pay the high cost of repair of the best vehicles in RB or naval battles. But these are the disadvantages of other game modes and vehicle types which at the moment don’t have a good solution.  

 

The only solution is to seriously reduce all repair costs or cut them out entirely, and reducing SL gains accordingly.

Instead of earning 20 000 SL for a game, paying 13 500 to repair a vehicle, and gain 6500 SL net, why not just cut the entire repair costs and instead make SL gains much lower?

 

Ie - instead of (20 000 - 13 500 = 6500), why not just earn 6500 to begin with for the same actions...

 

The entire community is against the current repair costs, and especially the "balancing by repair" as is done over and over again (see for example Strv 122B vs Leo 2A6, German F-86 vs other ones, or Saggitario vs other 8.x planes).

Edited August 2, 2021 by AG3F2

[AdelWolf 1,098]

The new economy is awesome!

 

Now people tend to play in larger groups for longer to get their full rewards.

It is so good that people can pick any plane they want.

Many people avoided playing SB due to being unable to pick their fav. plane but now it attracts more players than it used to!

It is very good incentive for beginners as they are excited to fly their favourite plane just as we are!

 

Thanks to removal of the SP I have started to see people playing different planes than they used to!

I used to see the monotone, boring standard starters planes. It was always the same planes. But now it is more colorful because there are variety of vehicles people choose to fly. Now it is more fun because it is no longer the ordinary. People can go experiment with different planes now. 

 

The timer was a nonsense anyways. You crashed at landing, you made one mistake and you lost your favourite plane for 30minutes! Who enjoys that!

You had premium planes that you couldn't play due to timer and SP. Now it really makes sense to get premium vehicle.

 

After years of SP, BR, Timer discussions, it has finally came to an end. 

 

It totally removed the "zomber" concept. 

 

The "Zomber" thing is no more! It is gone! It is vanished! 

With the new economy system, you have to stay alive! And this rule goes for everyone!

You simply cannot profit anymore by dying, bombing and bailing out or kamikaze attacks.

This system forces everyone to  play properly this game!

This system forces everyone to play longer than they used to!

This system is better than any other system in the past!

 

Now people are forced to play this game properly due to the risk of loss of SL consequently the game play has been drastically improved!

Now those who join to a new game and grind SP by killing bots cannot dominate the late game by crushing new coming players with their Top Tier Vehicles against their Starter Low Tier vehicles. Because now everyone can pick any plane they want or need. 

 

Now being rich, having lots of SL, playing carefully gives its seeds. 

Because now those who play good and those who earn SL can play in a more relaxed easier way. They can do anything they want as they should be able to.

Because that's what being rich means.

 

The SB is no longer the grinders area. The Economy does not support SL grind thus we are only having players those who are SB enthusiasts yet it is fair enough that you are not in debt.

And those who play this game are the ones who really enjoy it. Not the ones who are here to grind by being AFK, or suicide or kamikaze bail out system.

 

Edit:

Adel vs Whole WT SB Community

Adel wins kek

Edited August 3, 2021 by AdelWolf

[przybysz86 10,309]

On 02/08/2021 at 16:21, Stona said:

for example in the latest updates respawn scores were disabled and the timer has been removed before the respawn on the vehicles of the non-initial game session’s BR after the loss of an aircraft,

many very experienced players express that in current system this change channels game into certain "meta" planes making lot of other much less useful. In other words, you either have best in bracket or you suffer.

are there plans to re-asses this change? It not necessarily means that it have to be reverted (although that's the quickest way) but unlike in AB and RB in fixed brackets system certain planes are always facing only enemy at higher BR which is basically like playing on a constant uptier. This is true for basically all starter BR planes and mostly affect players who just got into certain rank of EC and don't have higher BR plane yet.

How to fix it? I don't know but I hope you do since you made the call to remove SP and timer. Maybe oner BR level of overlap between EC sessions and narrowing BR spread would help?
Right now a new player who for example just purchased first 5.0 plane is forced to fight 6.3 planes constantly because you can't guarantee that whole enemy team just won't sit in best plane they have

it there is no limit and if we have fixed brackets with certain planes being always top and certain being always bottom of the food chain then max and min BRs should be at most 0.7 apart not 1.0 or 1.3

Edited September 12, 2021 by przybysz86

[Siggesvag 37]

Are the developers really aware of how widespread the farming bots issue has become?

 

Look at repair cost of things like J-4 It is a ordinary Mig-17 with different name but has a repair cost of +40k when the Mig-17 is 10k. Are J-4 player really that good or are most of the earnings from just killing bots? I think it is the latter.

 

You can see user created rooms like this all the time, bots fighting bots:

 

[[email protected] 39]

18 minutes ago, Stona said:

We are already working on the aircraft SB game mode as you can see from the changelog in the game. So, for example in the latest updates respawn scores were disabled and the timer has been removed before the respawn on the vehicles of the non-initial game session’s BR after the loss of an aircraft, as well as a bug due to which the reward for useful actions wasn’t counted has been fixed.    

The removal of spawn points has provided a great deal of flexibility in SBEC.

It is good that the removal of the spawn point allows any aircraft to be launched from the beginning.

However, it is also true that the BR for each EC rank has lost its meaning.

 

In the past, the time when it could not be used again when shot down or crashed was 30 minutes, too long.

However, it is clear that BR has become meaningless now that this timer has been turned off.

 

I find the temporary unavailability of lost aircraft time per BR necessary.

However, I would suggest that a minimum of 5 minutes and a maximum of 15 minutes would be just right.

[przybysz86 10,309]

12 minutes ago, Siggesvag said:

Are the developers really aware of how widespread the farming bots issue has become?

 

Look at repair cost of things like J-4 It is a ordinary Mig-17 with different name but has a repair cost of +40k when the Mig-17 is 10k. Are J-4 player really that good or are most of the earnings from just killing bots? I think it is the latter.

 

You can see user created rooms like this all the time, bots fighting bots:

 

yeah, I feel like devs are not aware of the true scale of this.
Those accounts are often meant to be sold or to farm GE with reference fraud so reaction time of days/weeks is not enough

I can joke that they banned 3 accounts but I am sure there are more. problem is - there are 10-20-more new ones every week.

[Vonarian aka Ardeshir 2,871]

My main game mode is RB, but I use SB sometimes to get some SL and RP, why I choose this mode? Because it is:

 

1. Overall harder, especially with M+KB
2. Takes more time, and I expect higher reward as I put my valuable time in playing SB
3. Maps are bigger and spotting enemies, etc. are harder, like you spend a lotta time finding targets, climb up and a long time is spent in doing nothing at all (climbing and searching).

• Considering these three, I expect more income compared to RB and AB.

But there are some good changes like enhanced incomes, you get rewarded ONLY IF you're useful (doing useful actions).

 

It is greatly appreciated that you heard our feedbacks and messages, gave us answers and your time.

 

I was happy at 1st that spawn points are removed, but now it's only Phantoms and Phantoms and high tier, only good vehicles of the BR (Imagine someone with a 10.0 vehicle playing against 11.0's all the time, why would I bring a 10.0 vehicle if I already have 11.0 Phantom II? But someone without an 11.0 plane is supposed to fight so many higher BR vehicles and "meta" ones).

A suggestion would be bringing back SP's and keeping removed cool downs, but enhancing SP income, like special income of SP if you're on a bomber/attacker and destroying ground targets, or when you're near enemies and having fights, removing SP just makes it a favorite vehicle test flight for some people in a harder mode.

 

Tbh, it is still a lotta fun playing SB, but you know I want to buy new vehicles, modifications, etc., so I would be happy to see the team continue monitoring in-game results and player feedbacks

 

TL;DR: There is still ways to improve these changes, I like them overall, but some downsides are always together with goods,

This change may make players try to be more effective tbh.

 

Once again, thank you so much for your attention, you heard what we said, found our issues and gave us answers, this is something we (at least) were looking for.

 

Cheers!

[[email protected] 39]

45 minutes ago, Stona said:

You do not block/ban abusers.

We do! On a weekly basis, game masters punish several people for exploiting “boost” accounts in such “treaty” game sessions. We continue to block violators for using game exploits and similar actions that violate the eula. Just a few recent examples of these players: example1 , example2 , example3 . 

We are very grateful to all the players who personally report to us regarding such abusers.

I feel that the system of creating matches on an individual basis should be revisited.

I suggest that we should instead increase the number of combinations of random matches between countries in SBEC.

Currently, there are only about 10 patterns, and many of them are combinations of one country on one side, making it difficult to find matches in the first place.

 

As a suggestion, maybe we could limit individuals to creating only sbop, and make SBEC only random matches?

Edited August 2, 2021 by [email protected]

[onebullet95 343]

Thanks for doing something that the community "asked"..... altho when we asked about P51H to 6.7...... it wasnt that fast, we're still waiting. Oh but you moved F7F to 6.7, nice thanks. Game wasn't balanced but now with no SP and no timers, MB5, P51H, 190A1 in EC2, F4U-1D will balance the games by killing new pilots in inferior planes. Nice.

 

When i was a kid and i asked my mother if i could do something bad she said NO! because she knew it was a bad idea. If community wants something bad, you say YES! great move. 

 

Economy is awful, balance (fun for both teams NOT just one!) was the last "acceptable" reason to play WT...

People will JUST fly meta planes and ohhh bless those who only have 9.7 and have to face Phantoms/MiG21bis..... thats what we asked for, yes. Human is the only animal who falls in the same hole twice! Maybe thats why some asked for these changes. One thing is sure: If you dont fly only 11.0, allied planes in EC3-4-6, if you have a bit of empathy for others and fly EVERYDAY every single NATION! You cant agree with this!

 

Dev's ideas for balancing the game by using the data from player's performance was killing Sim, balancing the game with economy is a super bad idea but now applying such a change (No SP or Timers) without applying BR changes first is GOING to Kill Sim!

 

I still love Sim but War Thunder is a game and a game should be balanced to be fun..... this is not balanced, this is not fun! 

 

Lost completely my faith in devs til the point i think this message is just a waste of time. Nice you read all but would be even nicer you use common sense to apply changes like these.

 

NOT everybody is able to afford to pay 44k and stay alive in the plane for more than 15 minutes! 

[Vonarian aka Ardeshir 2,871]

8 minutes ago, [email protected] said:

As a suggestion, maybe we could limit individuals to creating only sbop, and make SBEC only random matches?

 

And hard to balance the sides, it makes it impossible to play with a friend, this will make it so much similar to RB/AB MM.

 

SB EC is sth special, the already created rooms are good, but a suggestion can be the ability to report a room itself, a room of farmers can be reported and not one by one (consider limited reports as well).

Edited August 2, 2021 by Vonarian_IR

[[email protected] 39]

32 minutes ago, Vonarian_IR said:

 

And hard to balance the sides, it makes it impossible to play with a friend, this will make it so much similar to RB/AB MM.

 

SB EC is sth special, the already created rooms are good, but a suggestion can be the ability to report a room itself, a room of farmers can be reported and not one by one (consider limited reports as well).

I see, then it would be nice if you would at least consider increasing the number of random match combinations.

As far as I can ascertain, this is clearly the only pattern that is too small.

If you really want to give feedback, why don't you just check what combinations from the player-created rooms have the most participants, and then add more sets?
If we get to the jet battlefield, I don't think the balance of Axis and Allied combinations will change whether there are more or fewer countries.

Edited August 2, 2021 by [email protected]

[Mr_New_Vegas 253]

You present all these "problems" with aircraft SB like you are obeying some magical formula that cannot be changed at all. You are the one in control, you are the one who makes these rules. You can make sim and EC worth playing again. The fact that you cannot make sim zombering unrewarding while also making fighter gameplay rewarding is your problem, not anyone elses.

 

WT Sim is a great advertisement for DCS and unless you make changes to address that people will continue to abandon this mode in favour of that, or other modes.

[TheGreatPixelman 70]

I'm sorry but I do not agree with some of the logic talked about here especially this line:

1 hour ago, Stona said:

Because the game in vehicles of rank IV and above doesn't provide a high return on investment in the economy. And it is valid for all game modes. Higher rank vehicles have a higher expected level of reward per unit of time but at the same time they have higher expenses - with repair, ammo and crew. The guaranteed positive average balance of income and expenses is applied to vehicles below rank IV as well as premium vehicles (as intended for increased earnings). Reward multipliers (for regular game modes) and maximum reward for useful actions (for aircraft SB) of high ranked vehicles are higher than those of medium and low ranked vehicles but the risk and cost of maintaining such vehicles is significantly higher

 

 

Yesterday i played a game of top tier Sim. I killed 11 people while only dying once. 

 

and you know what the result was?

 

For a single death and 11 kills, I paid half of this price in Repairs. Imagine now an average player dying 5 times and killing 10 people. his net income for that match would have been -100K SL which is outrageous considering how challenging and lengthy this game mode is for newer players.

 

I want to know your opinion now, Do you really think, a player can afford playing et paying for newly unlocked vehicles with this type of reward?

 

for a player to pay for a top tier aircraft while playing top tier in sim, he would need to do 23 matches like I did and each one of these matches are 2-3 hours long which means just to pay for the researched aircraft he would need with an almost perfect score to play 60 hours.

 

Do you understand how horrific that looks for newer players?

 

Thank you

 

 

 

 

[DrJebus 42]

If the SB EC economy is working as intended, then can you explain the multiple examples of players doing well (positive kd, often near top of team, high activity) and earning about 50k over the course of a 2-3 hour game. What were they doing wrong?

 

Or, from the other side, you are convinced that your 'median' player is not an exploiter, so can you give us details of their play style (i.e. What are we meant to do to get the 85k/hour your stats say we should, or 255k/match). What BR are they using? What plane types? Are they doing anything but bombing bases/airfields? What K/D ratio are they getting? 

 

From my perspective, the EC economy is getting worse, as backed up by numerous reports all over these forums. If that is not the case, as you claim, can you explain why so many players of such a varied ability level are all wrong? 

[ItalianHitman 1,288]

Please add the SP cost back, along with smaller timers, like 10 minutes for the top planes.  

[przybysz86 10,309]

1 hour ago, Stona said:

You do not block/ban abusers.

We do! On a weekly basis, game masters punish several people for exploiting “boost” accounts in such “treaty” game sessions. We continue to block violators for using game exploits and similar actions that violate the eula. Just a few recent examples of these players: example1 , example2 , example3 . 

We are very grateful to all the players who personally report to us regarding such abusers

I think it's not problem of not banning them but more that banning them is futile effort. As long as system will allow it then people boosting account to be later sold will just take some losses into account and will expect say 10% of their accounts to be banned. They will still make money and with how many of them there are - you can't ban them all. there are not that man Game Masters in whole game to manage that, even if they all worked on SB on all day.

Creating new account is free and take minutes. it most likely can also be automated + creating new email alias is not really a problem. I can create 1000 emails in a day.

As long as you don't fix the economical benefit of the abuse, it will remain.

It's like banning cheaters in F2P games - you ban them. So what? he is back in 10mins with new account.

 

[TheFurNinja 195]

I knew someone in Gaijin cared about the mode - it is clear though that some mismanagement of resources has been in play.

I have been playing WT Sim (previously FRB) since 2013 at least, I have seen the growth of what is now known as SB through the 20 tier system, through BRs, through EC, til today.

My first and most important suggestion is that gaijin reaches out to us experienced players on occasion to speak about the state of the mode - we can help! I know I certainly want to. It is clear that many development decisions that end up backfiring could be mitigated by discussing with veteran players. Developers and game designers don't always have the same amount of experience as their players in the reality of their game from the user perspective, I have eight years of it! We are an immense resource to be used potentially. Please consider it.

My second and third suggestion relate to bombers. If it is possible: please remove bombers from using 3rd person gunner view, also please remove their ability to capture air points. Nothing is more frustrating than a bomber with some insane manual gunnery skill wiping out scores of (sometimes expensive to repair!) fighters while taking minimal return fire. Planes like P-61 are especially frustrating for me to deal with.

Fourth: When doing BRs, please consider changing your hierarchy of specifications in their performance. Speed and Climb rate matter far more than Firepower and Maneuverability in this mode. The reason being that actually aiming and hitting a target is difficult when it can simply escape from effective firing range, aiming an aircraft with joystick is hard! With the current hierarchy, you have aircraft like A-36 at 2.7(far too low) and A6Ms start at 3.3 and keep climbing in BR rapidly (far too high) - this is unacceptable as compared to their peers they are clearly superior or inferior despite having 'advantages' or 'disadvantages'. Also if you don't already: consider things like aircraft visibility, weapon placement, and weapon velocity in this hierarchy - there are a lot of features in SB that make an aircraft better or worse than might show up on their stat card!

I could say more, but I feel like it would be more fit to speaking about suggestions in a different place or format - but I cannot emphasize enough that my most important suggestion is that first one! We vets have a giant wealth of experience, please utilize it!
 

Edited August 2, 2021 by TheFurNinja

[LostF0X 1,969]

1 hour ago, Stona said:

Why am I earning so little in the top vehicle even when getting good results?

Because the game in vehicles of rank IV and above doesn't provide a high return on investment in the economy. And it is valid for all game modes. Higher rank vehicles have a higher expected level of reward per unit of time but at the same time they have higher expenses - with repair, ammo and crew. The guaranteed positive average balance of income and expenses is applied to vehicles below rank IV as well as premium vehicles (as intended for increased earnings). Reward multipliers (for regular game modes) and maximum reward for useful actions (for aircraft SB) of high ranked vehicles are higher than those of medium and low ranked vehicles but the risk and cost of maintaining such vehicles is significantly higher. 

 

 

 

 

 

Not really! we have tier 3 planes with repair costs extremely high not even justified by plane performance. Not to mention the increase of some costs on premium vehicles (I spent money, not SL to get a pack with a premium aircraft, i expect it to be rewarding in terms of sp and sl income, otherwhise i wouldn't spend money to get a premium vehicle )

 

OT

Thinking that one day you would add era7 aricraft i bought a talisman on a tier6 plane (just in case) and it's fun to see that plane now from era6 to 5 (talisman cost is different along the ranks, but i'm sure you already know) Now i have a plane i can't use anymore and I wasted other money. ..

 

with the current system most of the time we waste our time just to earn nothing. You put big words around, but the fact that in a game is not possible to procede across the ranks because of totally unbalanced game and economy should make you think about. Part of your player base has already gone, i'm back to test new economy system and it's a non sense stuff. Lost almost 1/5 milion SL in 3 days, so no thanks. 

 

[ZdrytchX 1,261]

2 hours ago, Stona said:

correct price for respawn in Phantoms was 500-700k SL; if we replace the fee to repair one in the new system, then for the top vehicles, the cost will be about 100-200k

You're assuming that the zomber pilots are the sim players here. You're not that wrong when considering that half the players these days are paid grinders playing exploit sessions, but honestly, coefficients for bombing should be reduced at higher BRs instead, make them work for their RP rather than assuming they are the better players. You shouldn't need a 100:1 KDR killing reserve biplanes to make profit, that's just encouraging the situation to get even worse. I can understand if you need a 1.5:1 KDR to make profit, as that is normal in RB, but it shouldn't be to the point that exploit accounts are the ones who mainly achieve such profits. As one of the better players, I've been stuck between 2 million and 3 million SL for some time now. I've only purchased aircraft modifications, crew assignment for 2 planes and bought one plane since the economy went down the drain with an average rate over the past month of 30k SL for a 2 hour game, boosters and premium time inclusive. By the way, I suck at RB, and I admit it, but I'm at least able to make profit there, and I can earn SL at much higher rate. If I'm moving to RB while my other discord buddies have all left to DCS and IL-2, that's a sign that many veterans do not like to see.

 

A recommendation is to adjust the coefficients based on aircraft type and rank, so they are different for simulator battles (and would improve economics for bombers in RB too), where finding ground targets and players are much harder than other game modes, where floating nametags render at ranges beyond which even the ground units render in. Meanwhile, stationary fat targets such as bombing points seems to be the main method for earning SL these days. I have no issue with people bombing these at lower tiers, especially when it encourages the bomber pilots to strategically avoid players, but when interceptor pilots aren't as much as a thread anymore such as when it's just Me 264 spam at ranks at which planes like japanese A6M zeros have next to no chance to it while planes that do have a more favourable chance like the A7M (which rightfully should be moved up BR) was instead given an insane repair cost of up to 50k SL and terrible roll stability, which just makes the situation worse. At least the bombing points takes a while to respawn and have limited health, i think that is the only major limiting factor here.
And that argument doesn't even step into the topic of gunshipping, which I'm sure you recall the "Sky Police" protests of 2014-2015 as someone who's been in the war thunder community long enough.

 

2 hours ago, Stona said:

You do not block/ban abusers.

I encourage to make an automated system which flags accounts for review if they have more than 100:1 kill-death or death-kill ratios in simulator battles. Not even the best veterans in simulator battles rarely ever achieve more than 50:1 KDR, bot-kills included. It should be a sign of exploit. Another trait is that such accounts are shared amongst certain players, for example, an account lililllilil (or something like that) and its inverse illlillilili are almost always in the same games together and have less than 20 unique vehicles played in the massive number of games they have played.

 

1 hour ago, [email protected] said:

I suggest that we should instead increase the number of combinations of random matches between countries in SBEC.

It would have to be carefully done. If you didn't remember the days when simulator battles was basically a perma-even type game mode, matchups like Iwo Jima were literally just 14 B-24s with 50 cals that worked like NR-30s today, fighting 11 zeros, some of which had very high repair costs in excess of 60k SL. Most planes back then only had repair costs of the 10-25k SL range. Nevertheless, back then in 2013 at least you were pretty much guaranteed the minimum SL reward of 5k * multiplier (typically around 300%, so most planes earnt around 15k without premium) per kill, but later the coefficient reduced to 1000SL/kill, although it was compensated by "Battle activity" which back then was simply scoring points by being near enemies to even the misbalance between newbies and veterans. But still, Requiring 4 kills to make even with SL, which can be considered blasphemy in RB, is generous compared to today's rewards.

 

1 hour ago, przybysz86 said:

1 hour ago, Siggesvag said:

Expand  

yeah, I feel like devs are not aware of the true scale of this.

anyone saw this? 24 keyboard macro accounts in one game. At least gaijin is earning money from all those meteor reapers they're purchasing for each account.

Edited August 2, 2021 by ZdrytchX
14 b24 vs 11 zeroes is balans

[Vonarian aka Ardeshir 2,871]

Spoiler

 

If the time I spent in this SB EC match I was playing RB, I could get far more SL, and it's a premium aircraft fighter with high SL multiplier, only around 80k while I could get a lot more if I was playing RB.

 

The rewards are not balanced tbh, they are decreased, 2H39M in one single battles only giving 80k SL

[Snake509 762]

I really think you should add the SP costs and the timers back, but make the max timer 15 minutes, and for each individual aircraft as opposed to BR levels.

[ItalianHitman 1,288]

1 hour ago, Vonarian_IR said:

My main game mode is RB, but I use SB sometimes to get some SL and RP 
...
I was happy at 1st that spawn points are removed, but now it's only Phantoms and Phantoms and high tier, only good vehicles of the BR (Imagine someone with a 10.0 vehicle playing against 11.0's all the time, why would I bring a 10.0 vehicle if I already have 11.0 Phantom II? But someone without an 11.0 plane is supposed to fight so many higher BR vehicles and "meta" ones).

With all due respect, that's why they should take SB feedback from SB veterans.
SB community knew what was coming the moment they posted that changelog ... 
Though, granted, in this particular occasion, even if they took feedback from SB veterans, probably nothing would change, because there are many of them who want to use only OP vehicles to club. 

[Hoernerice 584]

So the reason why im out of sl was, because i was lucky to fly in the most rewarding mode of all? ... realy? as i said from the begining. you didnt clean your data. you didnt because you dont know who is exploiter and who isnt. you mixed the normal fair player with the 20-30% exploiters ... its just funny. 

[esapekkis 2,659]

Firstly, thank you for taking the time to give us some answers! Then to the feedback:

 

6 hours ago, Stona said:

Let us start with a key explanation of the principles of economy in War Thunder.

 

Even under the condition of dividing the economy into different modes, it conceptually remains a common factor - average earnings and expenses per unit time in the vehicle of the same “economy level” are approximately the same in all game modes and for all types of vehicles. All economy changes that were made in the game are aimed at maintaining these fundamental principles of balance. 

 

It is especially aircraft SB that until recently was sharply out of line with the overall mode statistics. The reason for this contrary to popular belief wasn’t only abusers who used the ability to create rooms for unjust enrichment but also the overall economy balance of aircraft SB. This was the reason for the change and updates that came out recently.

Why am I earning so little in the top vehicle even when getting good results?

Because the game in vehicles of rank IV and above doesn't provide a high return on investment in the economy. And it is valid for all game modes. Higher rank vehicles have a higher expected level of reward per unit of time but at the same time they have higher expenses - with repair, ammo and crew. The guaranteed positive average balance of income and expenses is applied to vehicles below rank IV as well as premium vehicles (as intended for increased earnings). Reward multipliers (for regular game modes) and maximum reward for useful actions (for aircraft SB) of high ranked vehicles are higher than those of medium and low ranked vehicles but the risk and cost of maintaining such vehicles is significantly higher.

 

 

I can see that SB EC used to have very high rewards compared to other modes some time ago. I fully understand if you don't want top tier planes to be big SL earners and I can live with fact you lowered the SL earning potential of many low tier premium planes rather notably while aiming the "upper middle" tier being economically the most attractive. But still, I really cannot see how your statistics imply that average joe earns SL in SB anything close to other modes at the moment. It is just mindboggling how much our views differ on this case. Maybe if you could throw us some approximate numbers which you aim for when it comes to average earnings? Is the EC2 player ment to earn 20k SL / hour and a EC4 player 50k/hour? Or what numbers were you thinking?

 

 

6 hours ago, Stona said:

Cancel the fly out deposit and charge only for repairs.

In terms of economy balance, there will be no difference. If we remove the fee for the fly out, the cost for repairs will grow accordingly by 2+ times (in proportion to the ratio of fly outs to deaths) to match the described balance of economy in economy ranks for all game modes. 

For example in the old economy model, the correct price for respawn in Phantoms was 500-700k SL; if we replace the fee to repair one in the new system, then for the top vehicles, the cost will be about 100-200k. In our opinion a system with less but more frequent spending is more correct than a system with infrequent spending at a substantially larger amount of SL. Judging by your feedback - you are on the same page, as no one likes to pay the high cost of repair of the best vehicles in RB or naval battles. But these are the disadvantages of other game modes and vehicle types which at the moment don’t have a good solution. 

 

This spawn cost which you cannot earn ever back leads sometimes rather annoying cases when you combine it with currently rather high repaircosts. For example: Yesterday I spawned into a P-51H and managed to get shoot down 5 players without dying before the match ended to our teams victory. And I got negative 19k SL from that 5 kill 0 deaths victory game. If I continue the same 5 kills 0 deaths pace / game I will continue to lose money every single game. So negative earnings even if I do not die a single time ever. And P-51H does not even have the highest repaircoist of planes.

Spoiler

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Stona said:

You do not block/ban abusers.

We do! On a weekly basis, game masters punish several people for exploiting “boost” accounts in such “treaty” game sessions. We continue to block violators for using game exploits and similar actions that violate the eula. Just a few recent examples of these players: example1 , example2 , example3 . 

We are very grateful to all the players who personally report to us regarding such abusers.

 

 

To me it seems that there is dozens of new accounts cerated to farm everyday. Just today I was in several lobbies where there was around 200 player kills credited to one guy before game had hit 30 minute mark. Have you considered any automatic solutions to some of the most glaring cases? Like fllagging players who get 50 + kills per game or to games where there is several hundred kills credited?

 

How about removing the feature which gives a kill to the nearest enemy when you J-out from SB? Or how about removing the "player hosted" rooms?

 

 

6 hours ago, Stona said:

We are already working on the aircraft SB game mode as you can see from the changelog in the game. So, for example in the latest updates respawn scores were disabled and the timer has been removed before the respawn on the vehicles of the non-initial game session’s BR after the loss of an aircraft,

 

 

 

It was rather "interesting" choice to move both of them at the same time considering most of the BR values are completely meaningless now. So Fw-190A8 sits essentially on same BR with P-51H, A6M3 on same with MB5 and Hurricane mkII on same with F4U-A1. To me this screams problems. Do you have any plans to add balance / do something to encourage usage of lower BR planes in the EC brackets? Or are you just planning to balance with rising repaircosts?

Edited August 2, 2021 by esapekkis